[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by andybigbro

Worked together in wars, helped other countries out with aid etc.

I don't see why people would want to leave, all I see it as over patriotics that feel the need to prove themselves to be Scottish.

I am voting no because it's the safer and better choice for my future and my families future, the yes campaign cannot guarantee what they are promising and when it fails there're is no going back and Scotland will be screwed.

I am not here for leaving a union that has been together since 1707 and something I have grown up with due to there being nukes in the country, which LOTS of countries have.

Oil will run out, then what Scotland? Cry to England, Wales and Nortthern Ireland for help? NO CHANCE.

Worked together in wars, helped other countries out with aid etc.


and being our own country means we cant do that?

you are just arguing that change is bad because it means something new

We had the union foisted upon us by deceit, we have a government we dont elect making decisions for us. We are part of a union with a country 10 times larger who govern us

Dont fear change, change is what makes things

[andybigbro]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Worked together in wars, helped other countries out with aid etc.


and being our own country means we cant do that?

you are just arguing that change is bad because it means something new

We had the union foisted upon us by deceit, we have a government we dont elect making decisions for us. We are part of a union with a country 10 times larger who govern us

Dont fear change, change is what makes things

Scotland IS it's own country, regardless if it's part of the UK or not. But no we wouldn't be able to do those things on the same scale. Scotland wouldn't have a strong defence.

Scotkand will have more powers within Westminster, which both the no campaign plus David Cameron etc are agreeing on.

I'm not a bitter scot who feels overshadowed by England, I embrace the fact we have friends neighbours and a security.

Change is also what breaks things, and I'm not here to take the risk because we need to think about the FUTURE, even when we are all long gone. Staying part if the uk us better for our businesses, our opportunities, our security.

Why take the risk, when we are being told we will have more power in Westminster?

The yes campaign saying we can keep the pound, their idea of independence very independent then is it. If they want to cling into the Currency of the UK

[user104658]

Originally Posted by andybigbro

Worked together in wars, helped other countries out with aid etc.

I don't see why people would want to leave, all I see it as over patriotics that feel the need to prove themselves to be Scottish.

I am voting no because it's the safer and better choice for my future and my families future, the yes campaign cannot guarantee what they are promising and when it fails there're is no going back and Scotland will be screwed.

I am not here for leaving a union that has been together since 1707 and something I have grown up with due to there being nukes in the country, which LOTS of countries have.

Oil will run out, then what Scotland? Cry to England, Wales and Nortthern Ireland for help? NO CHANCE.

Do you think there are any guarantees when it comes to staying in the UK, either? WHY do you think it's the "safer" choice for the future of your family? This suggests that the UK as it is is still strong and stable. It is not, it is broken, the pot is running dry and the status quo is just to desperately try to keep everything the same with false promises and false finances. Things simply CANNOT "continue as they are", in one way or another, there WILL be drastic changes that affect all of us.

With that in mind: would you rather be in a small country with very decent resources per-head and a strong sense of fairness and community (Independent Scotland) OR would you rather be part of a union that will protect one city (London) AT ALL COSTS and will bleed Scotland dry to do so? You talk about risks and safety but you don't seem to have given any real thought to the risks of being IN the union. You think that a vote for "no" is a vote for "no change", that things will just trundle along fine and stay comfortable and the same as ever. Look at the figures. This is simply impossible.

[JoshBB]

If scotland was independent, I'd strongly consider moving there when I grow older. The two main parties (SNP & Labour) both being left and socialist parties is just music to my ears. They are a country that has it right!

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

If scotland was independent, I'd strongly consider moving there when I grow older. The two main parties (SNP & Labour) both being left and socialist parties is just music to my ears. They are a country that has it right!

Me too actually.

I do still hope for a no vote myself but I do understand why the Scots are tempted and may yet actually vote for independence.

I also believe the UK would be a stronger place with Scotland still there in it but I also do believe that Scotland could be a really successful Nation with independence in its own right.

I have family in Scotland,from Inverness down to Jedburgh and even a few of them, originally being committed as no to independence now are going to vote yes.

It is amazing how things have turned the last 2 weeks.

[arista]

Good

[Angelika]

What happens if things don't work out, will we see a migration of Scots to England & Wales?

I feel unhappy about them parting company but if that is their destiny, I'll support them.
Yes, I'll continue to buy haggis, shortbread, black pudding, white pudding, rare Scottish beef, woollies, tartan, single malt whiskey. I'll continue to feel proud of Scottish inventions like TV, bicycles, telephones, steam engines, trout fishing, the bagpipes, Kilts, throwing the caber, Robert Burns, etc.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Darling and Brown got the UK into the mess it is now by taking on the debts of the banks. now both are trying to tell scots what is the right thing to do fiscally?

you could not make it up


smh

[billy123]

I dont care either way to be honest and im the only Englishman in my household the rest being Scottish.
Wave goodbye to their free prescriptions,free university's and free care homes and say hello to border controls,the cost of setting up their own passports,currency and trade agreements.

It makes no difference to me but it does worry me that the afore mentioned issues have not even started to be resolved or even talked about much.
This has a good chance of being carried forward on nothing but a wave of nationalistic fervour which seems more than a little naive.

The yes camp is riding a wave of pride which is very nice but what happens when the waves die down and the tide goes out?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by bobnot

I dont care either way to be honest and im the only Englishman in my household the rest being Scottish.
Wave goodbye to their free prescriptions,free university's and free care homes and say hello to border controls,the cost of setting up their own passports,currency and trade agreements.

It makes no difference to me but it does worry me that the afore mentioned issues have not even started to be resolved or even talked about much.
This has a good chance of being carried forward on nothing but a wave of nationalistic fervour which seems more than a little naive.

The yes camp is riding a wave of pride which is very nice but what happens when the waves die down and the tide goes out?

To think that the Scottish government has not thought about those things is pretty bizarre - did you even have a cursory look at the white paper? You are just regurgitating fear dogma from the Daily Mail

The Scottish government position is unequivocal:

There are no circumstances in which the Scottish government would countenance any measure being taken that jeopardised the ability of citizens across the rUK [rest of the UK] and Ireland to move freely across the borders as they are presently able to do. It is for this reason that following independence Scotland will remain part of the Common Travel Area (CTA).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...itics-18364699

http://scotreferendum.com/reports/sc...dent-scotland/

[joeysteele]

The truth is, there will be uncertainties were Scotland to be independent, not just for the Scots but also for the English,Welsh and those in Northern Ireland too.
The futures of all those Nations needs to be addressed if the Scots vote 'yes'.

However, Wales and Scotland particularly have had a pretty bad deal within the UK from successive govts.of both parties and even moreso from this coalition disaster we have had for the last 4+ years.

Fear of the unknown should not be barrier to taking the challenge.
The rest of Europe,other Nations too along with the USA would want Scotland to succeed if it said 'yes'.
I also firmly believe it would be in England's,Wales and N.Ireland's interests too to support and ensure the stability of Scotland being so close a neighbour.

The only person talking sense for me at present is Alex Salmond on this,he knows there are uncertainties and challenges ahead but he feels Scotland,no matter what govt. it chooses for itself can rise to that challenge.

All we hear from the no camp, is as he says negative statements and threat after threat.
I heard today that if the Scots vote yes, then in 2016 the Scots MPs elected to Westminster would be gone and there would have to be another election.
Nonsense, that will depend on the result of the 2015 election anyway.

If as the polls suggest,Labour were to win say a 40 overall majority,which is the present guide from the polls.
No further election would in fact be necessary,losing the Scots seats would reduce the Westminster parliament to 591 seats, If Labour had a 40 overall majority,losing the likely 42 Scottish MPs they had would still leave them with an overall majority
in double figures.
Likewise if the Conservative party scraped in by say a 5 to 10 overall majority then again no new election would be necessary as that overall majority would rise in Westminster.

Instead of harping on about all the negatives and things that may need to happen, the 'no' campaign should be spelling out exactly in clear detail all the new powers Scotland would actually get.
While similar,there are 3 varying degees of transfers of power on the table, now which one will 100% be given to the Scots,that we don't know as the 'no' campaign will not spell out the full detail..

I think Alex Salmond is well aware that Westminster 'will' have to work closely with an independent Scotland,no more walking over the Scots by Westminster but dealing on an equal basis with them.

I know this post appears to favour independence and maybe I have come round to thinking Scotland could do better on its own.
My view now however stems from what I believe has been a disastrous and negative 'no' campaign,that still appears to take the Scots for granted by talking 'at' them and not 'to' them.

The way for Westminster to help ensure financial stability for all is to say what they will likely be forced to say if Scotland votes 'yes' and that is, yes Scotland can operate the pound still.
It would be folly for Westminster to refuse and obstruct an independent Scotland doing so,that would cause massive problems for the citizens of the remaning original UK countries.

On that point,I really feel Alex Salmond has won the day and with the EU likely to do all it can to support an independent Scotland,it may well be that it is the bumbling, incompetent politicians we have been left with, that have the greater struggle after a 'yes' result..

[Kyle]

Joey, for people like us that have Scottish and English parents but live in England what do we do about our passports if Scotland gets Independence? Sorry if it's a stupid question but do we leave them as they are or can we claim a Scottish Passport or something?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Kyle

Joey, for people like us that have Scottish and English parents but live in England what do we do about our passports if Scotland gets Independence? Sorry if it's a stupid question but do we leave them as they are or can we claim a Scottish Passport or something?

I'd imagine you could choose either an English or Scottish passport, a friend of mine has Irish parents but he was born and spent most of his life in England but he has an Irish passport

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I'd imagine you could choose either an English or Scottish passport, a friend of mine has Irish parents but he was born and spent most of his life in England but he has an Irish passport

Ah right thanks Niamh. Probably best to just leave it for now lol.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

The truth is, there will be uncertainties were Scotland to be independent, not just for the Scots but also for the English,Welsh and those in Northern Ireland too.
The futures of all those Nations needs to be addressed if the Scots vote 'yes'.

However, Wales and Scotland particularly have had a pretty bad deal within the UK from successive govts.of both parties and even moreso from this coalition disaster we have had for the last 4+ years.

Fear of the unknown should not be barrier to taking the challenge.
The rest of Europe,other Nations too along with the USA would want Scotland to succeed if it said 'yes'.
I also firmly believe it would be in England's,Wales and N.Ireland's interests too to support and ensure the stability of Scotland being so close a neighbour.

The only person talking sense for me at present is Alex Salmond on this,he knows there are uncertainties and challenges ahead but he feels Scotland,no matter what govt. it chooses for itself can rise to that challenge.

All we hear from the no camp, is as he says negative statements and threat after threat.
I heard today that if the Scots vote yes, then in 2016 the Scots MPs elected to Westminster would be gone and there would have to be another election.
Nonsense, that will depend on the result of the 2015 election anyway.

If as the polls suggest,Labour were to win say a 40 overall majority,which is the present guide from the polls.
No further election would in fact be necessary,losing the Scots seats would reduce the Westminster parliament to 591 seats, If Labour had a 40 overall majority,losing the likely 42 Scottish MPs they had would still leave them with an overall majority
in double figures.
Likewise if the Conservative party scraped in by say a 5 to 10 overall majority then again no new election would be necessary as that overall majority would rise in Westminster.

Instead of harping on about all the negatives and things that may need to happen, the 'no' campaign should be spelling out exactly in clear detail all the new powers Scotland would actually get.
While similar,there are 3 varying degees of transfers of power on the table, now which one will 100% be given to the Scots,that we don't know as the 'no' campaign will not spell out the full detail..

I think Alex Salmond is well aware that Westminster 'will' have to work closely with an independent Scotland,no more walking over the Scots by Westminster but dealing on an equal basis with them.

I know this post appears to favour independence and maybe I have come round to thinking Scotland could do better on its own.
My view now however stems from what I believe has been a disastrous and negative 'no' campaign,that still appears to take the Scots for granted by talking 'at' them and not 'to' them.

The way for Westminster to help ensure financial stability for all is to say what they will likely be forced to say if Scotland votes 'yes' and that is, yes Scotland can operate the pound still.
It would be folly for Westminster to refuse and obstruct an independent Scotland doing so,that would cause massive problems for the citizens of the remaning original UK countries.

On that point,I really feel Alex Salmond has won the day and with the EU likely to do all it can to support an independent Scotland,it may well be that it is the bumbling, incompetent politicians we have been left with, that have the greater struggle after a 'yes' result..

Great points joey. the scots and nation of inventors and with great change and great problems you get great invention. Of course there will be problems to solve but that should never stop a country from striving to be fairer and more caring to its populace.

[Lee.]

Niamh.. My pro- independence views have been met several times with "urgh! I take it you've never been to Ireland"

I haven't actually ever been to Ireland.. Is it really that bad? Do you look at the UK longingly and wish you were part of us? Serious question.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Lee.

Niamh.. My pro- independence views have been met several times with "urgh! I take it you've never been to Ireland"

I haven't actually ever been to Ireland.. Is it really that bad? Do you look at the UK longingly and wish you were part of us? Serious question.

No way. Sure we've had issues with the banks and bail outs and that but we're clawing our way back again and getting on top of things. Things have improved majorly in the last 12 months in regards to work etc.

What do they mean by that statement anyway, Have you ever been to Ireland? Makes us sound like we're a third world country or something

Anyway, just because one country might be doing better than another doesn't mean you want to switch nationalities lol If Germany is doing better than England would the English all want to become German?

[Lee.]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

No way. Sure we've had issues with the banks and bail outs and that but we're clawing our way back again and getting on top of things. Things have improved majorly in the last 12 months in regards to work etc.

What do they mean by that statement anyway, Have you ever been to Ireland? Makes us sound like we're a third world country or something

Anyway, just because one country might be doing better than another doesn't mean you want to switch nationalities lol If Germany is doing better than England would the English all want to become German?

This is good Niamh! I'm still coming to stay there if we vote no on the 18th!

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Lee.

This is good Niamh! I'm still coming to stay there if we vote no on the 18th!

anytime

[Crimson Dynamo]

David Cameron, Nick Clegg and Ed Miliband are on a flying visit to Scotland today. Use this to highlight the clear choice we have next week - taking Scotland's future in Scotland hands, or leaving it in the hands of an out-of-touch Westminster.

"The Westminster parties have confirmed that a No vote won’t deliver a single new job-creating power or the protection we need for our NHS. Remind friends and family that only a Yes vote ensures:

Our NHS and other public services are completely protected from future cuts and NHS privatisation in England;

We get the job-creating powers we need;

Scotland will always get the governments we vote for.

Scotland is one of the very wealthiest countries in the world, which means we can choose independence with confidence. It also means that with a Yes, we can make sure our vast wealth delivers much more for the people who live here. This is a very powerful message for the final week of the campaign, so speak to as many people as possible."

-------


just got this via email

[the truth]

hopefully devo max will be enough. but are the tories really trying to lose scotland? their last ditch desperate attempts are all backfiring , the more tories they send last minute to jockland the more desperate they appear and the more it winds up the scots. the scots hate the tories with good reason. they destroyed their economy and many communities under thatcher. as in the north and throughout the welsh valleys, they detsroyed the steel works, the copper, the coal, the tin, even the lime quarries and all other industries. the stories i could tell you would make you cry. im sure you all know o people destroyed by thatcher flooding the coal mines , of the best coal in the world. compare it to belgian coal it takes 3 times longer to burn welsh coal as the seams are richer and way deeper like blaenau and hatfield


theyre rightly sick to death of westminster self serving politics which lets face it is a cesspit of lies deceit self serving tossers. the main issue is that london and the south will take care of its own before scotland and also theyre so far away from scotland they dont have an intricate knowledge and hands on approach to the changes that need to be made in scotland. the wealth in the south compared to the rest of the uk is disgusting. it shows the sheer gluttony of london when you consider, wales has only just hoted a sitting president for the first time ever ? how nuts is that. US presidents have been going to london for over 200 years.....this is one tiny example of the vast chasm between london and the rest of the uk. its got to stop. every region is as important as the other.

[arista]

[Don't destroy Britain just to give the 'effing Tories a kick'
PM Cameron close to tears in plea to save the Union.]


I say!
how nice of you to be using local lingo
PM


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...hare-debt.html

[lostalex]

maybe in a few years the rest of the UK will vote to join Scotland?

[Z]

I feel like I'm living in a cuckoo clock, the Yes campaign basically didn't have a leg to stand on all this time, they were fighting an uphill battle trying to convince the people of Scotland to dip a toe, then a leg, then their whole selves into the unknown and all the Better Together "campaign" had to do was not sling mud back at the Yes campaign, whose campaigning method of choice has been to try and make the No side look stupid - not only did they completely take the bait but they then sent Alistair Darling to try and make them look good in a televised debate and he took the bait on live TV and now they have "call me Dave" Cameron taking the bait 8 days before the referendum. I actually think the yes campaign might win now, and I would never have predicted that in a million years. It's not because the Yes lot have been particularly good, it's because the No lot have been spectacularly bad. I'm on the fence and in principle I think I'm still a no voter but I wouldn't really care what the result was either way anymore. I can't call it anymore. I think a marginal yes victory or a marginal no victory.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Z

I feel like I'm living in a cuckoo clock, the Yes campaign basically didn't have a leg to stand on all this time, they were fighting an uphill battle trying to convince the people of Scotland to dip a toe, then a leg, then their whole selves into the unknown and all the Better Together "campaign" had to do was not sling mud back at the Yes campaign, whose campaigning method of choice has been to try and make the No side look stupid - not only did they completely take the bait but they then sent Alistair Darling to try and make them look good in a televised debate and he took the bait on live TV and now they have "call me Dave" Cameron taking the bait 8 days before the referendum. I actually think the yes campaign might win now, and I would never have predicted that in a million years. It's not because the Yes lot have been particularly good, it's because the No lot have been spectacularly bad. I'm on the fence and in principle I think I'm still a no voter but I wouldn't really care what the result was either way anymore. I can't call it anymore. I think a marginal yes victory or a marginal no victory.

Why he is up there?
they hate being told what to do