[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by MTVN

I think my statement was pretty neutral actually, just giving the facts; he was killed and he was a local guy, I said no more than that

No, it was selective. You missed out some pretty salient facts, the police didn't simply look at some poor local chap and decide to take him out.

[InOne]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

I love the way you portray it as 'the police killing a local guy' - like he was some kindly gent, a pillar of the community, with nothing but good and kindness to offer the world.

Yeah, I find it hard to sympathise with all this blacks stabbing blacks over post code bollocks. And they always make him out to be some sort of hero with all his friends telling us how great he was and he was really "just a good guy" when in reality he was exactly the same as the person who killed him.

[brat673]

Isn't it about time that the police used water canon against petrol bombs etc. Surely this would cool someones ardour! Maybe there would be less damage and injuries caused to the police and property. Perhaps paint guns with an indelible dye? Or perhaps the home secretary ought to be there to wave a white flag?? Get real and get the job done!!

[Lee.]

Looks like its kicking off again in Enfield.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by happyland

Looks like its kicking off again in Enfield.

No.... surely to god not. Geezus hell.

[tmi]

It was awful yesterday about the riots, the thing that really stuck in mind is the youngests in the background trying to get their mugs shots on tv and shouting abusives. People where struggling to comprehend what happened and to these youngest it seemed yet another day. The bbc coverage was rubbish, leading the
people in their questions rather than asking just to get the answers they wanted, I think the public have a right to know why he was shot. There is a way of doing, police must have had a reason to open fire, the reason yet unknown, you have to toss the coin on this discussion and think of the
police's family they wave they partners etc off to work everyday and dont know if they will come back alive. If the police wasnt there to enforce the law what would this country be like.

[Zippy]

You're being a bit disengenuous MTVN.

He wasnt shot for possession he was shot in the act of fleeing arrest. A very pent up scenario no doubt. Regardless of the man firing a shot if they saw him holding it in his hand ready to use that could be enough reason to open fire. Or do you think they have to wait for him to shoot one of them first?

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Zippy

You're being a bit disengenuous MTVN.

He wasnt shot for possession he was shot in the act of fleeing arrest. A very pent up scenario no doubt. Regardless of the man firing a shot if they saw him holding it in his hand ready to use that could be enough reason to open fire. Or do you think they have to wait for him to shoot one of them first?

I'm not intentionally being but I don't think it's fact that he was fleeing arrest, the latest developments are saying that "the handgun recovered was found in a sock and therefore not ready for use"

So now it turns out that there was no firefight and the gun looks like it wasn't even ready for use? It's getting harder and harder to see how this ended up with a guy dead shot twice in the head

[Zippy]

I don't believe any police officer would shoot somebody in the head without good reason at the time. They may misread signals or mistake what they see but I think they shoot for a reason.

These are professionals with a career to think of. Even for an officer shooting somebody is a big deal that they will be held accountable for. Plus they have to live with that death.

And its not like we hear about this all the time. They are relatively rare.

I agree we dont know enough about the exact situation here but that doesnt give either sides a right to jump to assumptions. If those officers felt any imminent danger then they had a right to shoot. Thats what theyre trained to do.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Zippy

I don't believe any police officer would shoot somebody in the head without good reason at the time. They may misread signals or mistake what they see but I think they shoot for a reason.

These are professionals with a career to think of. Even for an officer shooting somebody is a big deal that they will be held accountable for. Plus they have to live with that death.

And its not like we hear about this all the time. They are relatively rare.

I agree we dont know enough about the exact situation here but that doesnt give either sides a right to jump to assumptions. If those officers felt any imminent danger then they had a right to shoot. Thats what theyre trained to do.

That's true I guess but this seems to be getting more questionable the more we find out, there should be some kind of an inquiry and the public (and especially the victims family) should know what happened

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Zippy

I don't believe any police officer would shoot somebody in the head without good reason at the time. They may misread signals or mistake what they see but I think they shoot for a reason.

These are professionals with a career to think of. Even for an officer shooting somebody is a big deal that they will be held accountable for. Plus they have to live with that death.

And its not like we hear about this all the time. They are relatively rare.

I agree we dont know enough about the exact situation here but that doesnt give either sides a right to jump to assumptions. If those officers felt any imminent danger then they had a right to shoot. Thats what theyre trained to do.

Pretty much sums up my own view on the whole matter too.

[tmi]

On twitter a person just showed the looted stuff from last nite.

[billy123]

Is anybody in london?
According to twitter its started kicking off in Edmonton Green,Waltham,Westfield and people starting to gather in Oxford Circus

[arista]

Originally Posted by bobnot

Is anybody in london?
According to twitter its started kicking off in Edmonton Green,Waltham,Westfield and people starting to gather in Oxford Circus

Yes there was trouble in some shops in Enfield
Twitter is used to get the Looters
and anyone there (ncluding kids).

[billy123]

Originally Posted by arista

Yes there was trouble in some shops in Enfield
Twitter is used to get the Looters
and anyone there (ncluding kids).

There was some sort of media blackout last night because what was being reported on sky news and bbc news24 in no way reflected what was being reported as going on in brixton,edmonton,enfield,waltham and a few other places via twitter.

(I suppose it makes some sense as it would be like advertising a 100% off sale)

[arista]

Originally Posted by bobnot

There was some sort of media blackout last night because what was being reported on sky news and bbc news24 in no way reflected what was being reported as going on in brixton,edmonton,enfield,waltham and a few other places via twitter.

(I suppose it makes some sense as it would be like advertising a 100% off sale)

Yes they only gave rough reports.

LBC Radio , though was up to date.

[arista]

Originally Posted by michael21

its not the kids that have done this

Sadly kids aged 7
were at the 1st Riots.

[arista]

Very young kids right in the middle of the 1st Riots.

[billy123]

Paul lewis a guardian reporter was great last night he was on foot in london trying to keep pace with where the trouble was a lot of the troublemakers were using there own cars and black cabs to get about the police were pretty much clueless they were just chasing shadows all night.
http://twitter.com/#!/PaulLewis
One of his last tweets this morning was "Something tells me we'll all be back here tomorrow"

I think the powers that be are terrified of this spreading outside of london.

[arista]

Originally Posted by bobnot

Paul lewis a guardian reporter was great last night he was on foot in london trying to keep pace with where the trouble was a lot of the troublemakers were using there own cars and black cabs to get about the police were pretty much clueless they were just chasing shadows all night.
http://twitter.com/#!/PaulLewis
One of his last tweets this morning was "Something tells me we'll all be back here tomorrow"

I think the powers that be are terrified of this spreading outside of london.

Yes its Smash a Shop Window Week


School Holiday Time.

[joeysteele]

This is total chaos almost now, I agree to a point with MTVN, there seems again a lot of answers to be got from the Police, having said that they have a really hard job to do.

That area is quite volatile but it's the damage and looting that annoys me a great deal, this is their community likely and they just go crazy. How do you deal with that.
Indeed answers are needed as to why someone with a gun, but not ready for use gets shot not once but twice, there are some gun happy Police as well.

The Police have a few problems of late with all sorts of questions as to how they conduct themselves but this does seem likely to escalate.
I don't believe violence solves anything, these protesters and demonstrators are doing themselves no good at all.
However,the Police do need to answer that question that MTVN pointed out, the gun was not ready to use, why 2 shots seemingly to the head and what happened to the use of tazers,why weren't they an option.

I fear though that things are going to get a great deal worse as to public and Police,there is less and less rapport and trust between them and these incidents are likely the tip of the iceberg as to the future.

[Crimson Dynamo]

This has nothing to do with police and everything to do with criminality, fecklessness and bad parenting - i would also throw into the mix the failure of multiculturalism

[Livia]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

This has nothing to do with police and everything to do with criminality, fecklessness and bad parenting - i would also throw into the mix the failure of multiculturalism

I have to agree with you LT. I've seen quite a bit of footage now, and of those who did not have their faces covered like the heroes they are, I saw only one white face. It's not racist to state what you see, and that's what I saw.

Makes me laugh when people try to make this into some kind of stand against "The Man". But it dilutes their freedom-fighting message when you see them all stumbling out of JD Sport and PC World loaded with boxes they've just looted.

I would say that the police do a bloody horrible job, and thank God they do, or we'd all be prisoners in our own homes while the dregs of society - like those involved in the trouble at the weekend - rampaged, robbed and looted.

A report I read stated that a "non-police firearm was recovered from the scene". Unlikely they'd have shot this "family man" for no reason considering the **** and hoops they have to go through every time a copper fires his gun, especially following the shooting of Jean Charles de Menezes. Gun crime is out of control in this country, only a fool would say otherwise. Guns are illegal even for sportsmen, so I have no problem with the police shooting anyone caught in possession of a firearm.

[karezza]

Looters should be shot on sight.

[arista]

Originally Posted by karezza

Looters should be shot on sight.

No not 7 years olds.


Arrest there Parents though and Fine them £1,000