[Marsh.]

I've got to say, after lostalex kicking up a fuss about parents "beating up" their children and then to come out with that, I think he just says whatever is most likely to get a reaction.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by 08marsh

I've got to say, after lostalex kicking up a fuss about parents "beating up" their children and then to come out with that, I think he just says whatever is most likely to get a reaction.

Again I agree with you.

[Vicky.]

Oh and I dont think that everyone who murders is gone in the head. I think a lot of them seriously plan what they are going to do, how to get away with it and everything. Then just try to plead insanity at court because a lot of people seem to think only insane people would even consider murdering someone.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Oh and I dont think that everyone who murders is gone in the head. I think a lot of them seriously plan what they are going to do, how to get away with it and everything. Then just try to plead insanity at court because a lot of people seem to think only insane people would even consider murdering someone.

Maybe it's just me but I think that someone that plans a murder has something seriously wrong with them, they're definitely not right in the head.

No sane person does that.

EDIT: Bit like that teenager a few weeks back that killed his mum with a hammer, and had plotted it for months and months in the form of little stories. There's clearly some kind of issue there if you ask me, even more so than those who just murder at the heat of the moment.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Maybe it's just me but I think that someone that plans a murder has something seriously wrong with them, they're definitely not right in the head.

No sane person does that.
EDIT: Bit like that teenager a few weeks back that killed his mum with a hammer, and had plotted it for months and months in the form of little stories. There's clearly some kind of issue there if you ask me, even more so than those who just murder at the heat of the moment.

Yes I agree..the horrific case that's been on the news all day today of Shane Jenkins who gouged his ex's eyes out..apparantly he'd watched a dvd of eye gouging fgs...there was no 'spur of the moment' thing going on there..that man is seriously disturbed...
..he's been sentenced to life imprisonment..but I don't know how these things work..will they just leave him disturbed or will he ever get any help to fully realise what he's done..because I'm presuming someone who is capable of doing that can't possibly fully grasp it

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Ammi

Yes I agree..the horrific case that's been on the news all day today of Shane Jenkins who gouged his ex's eyes out..apparantly he'd watched a dvd of eye gouging fgs...there was no 'spur of the moment' thing going on there..that man is seriously disturbed...
..he's been sentenced to life imprisonment..but I don't know how these things work..will they just leave him disturbed or will he ever get any help to fully realise what he's done..because I'm presuming someone who is capable of doing that can't possibly fully grasp it

They do but they just don't care.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Well a 25 year sentence would generally result in someone being out in like 12. Say you killed someone at 20 year old, you would be out just in time to enjoy the prime of your life. Even doing the full sentence you would be out by 45....likely under a new identity and everything too (as only really high profile cases get sentences like that). Life meaning life would mean you never saw the real world again...I would imagine thats a pretty big deterrant...for younger people at least.

I would personally say that spending my life locked up is worse than the death penalty.

Even in cases when they only get out after 12 years or so (and I'm not sure how frequent it actually is that prisoners only serve half their sentence), I wouldn't say they're in a position to "enjoy the prime of their life". It's forever known that they were a murderer, that will place huge limitations on everything they do and they have to try and accustom themselves back to the real world and (if they do feel this way) always have to live with what they've done. I'm not saying this to try and make you feel sorry for them, or make out they deserve any sympathy because they don't and those are the consequences of what they've done, but I just don't think it's the case that murderers get a really easy ride in life after being released

And I'm not sure I agree that being killed is better than spending your life in prison, but either way I still thinks it's the case that however much you try and toughen the punishment it probably won't stop someone killing another man if they were already going to do it. I don't think it's a coincidence that the countries with the most brutal justice system often have the most crime, and those with the most liberal have the least

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Even in cases when they only get out after 12 years or so (and I'm not sure how frequent it actually is that prisoners only serve half their sentence), I wouldn't say they're in a position to "enjoy the prime of their life". It's forever known that they were a murderer, that will place huge limitations on everything they do and they have to try and accustom themselves back to the real world and (if they do feel this way) always have to live with what they've done. I'm not saying this to try and make you feel sorry for them, or make out they deserve any sympathy because they don't and those are the consequences of what they've done, but I just don't think it's the case that murderers get a really easy ride in life after being released

And I'm not sure I agree that being killed is better than spending your life in prison, but either way I still thinks it's the case that however much you try and toughen the punishment it probably won't stop someone killing another man if they were already going to do it. I don't think it's a coincidence that the countries with the most brutal justice system often have the most crime, and those with the most liberal have the least

Wrong because what about over here?

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by The Mockinator

Wrong because what about over here?

I don't think our justice system is particularly liberal, no more so than most Western countries. I think Norway is a very good example of a successful liberal justice system, their reaction to the atrocities committed there last year have been a testament to this

[Ammi]

As much as I am as shocked as anyone about certain crimes I would worry about these type of punishments....
..if it was that say someone committed a murder and they got the death penalty..a life for a life..or a paedophile say castrated..someone who was deemed to be disturbed..maybe lobotomised..and the forced castration on anyone that it is deemed shouldn't have anymore children.....
...that sounds like a completely violent and barbaric world to live in..like something out of a horror movie..almost completely lawless..and would there ever be any extenuating circumstances and how would they be decided..it seems to be playing around with people's lives as much as the people who commit these crimes in the first place....
..it would be better if the sentences were longer in some cases or that they served their full term..but when they're doing that..these people need help also

[Kizzy]

Im standing by what I suggested, it is being trialled for peadophiles ...Voluntary chemical castration. It would be discrimination if the same soloution was not offered to women?...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...tish-jail.html

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by kizzy

Im standing by what I suggested, it is being trialled for peadophiles ...Voluntary chemical castration. It would be discrimination if the same soloution was not offered to women?...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...tish-jail.html

I was about to launch into a fit of rage before I saw 'voluntary'. I hadn't thought about that and didn't even see the option on the poll, so mistakenly voted to prohibit it completely. But absolutely, so long as they're volunteering and willing for this to happen, I've no problem whatsoever. In fact I think it's quite commendable.

But forcing people to face this kind of treatment - never.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Jack_

I was about to launch into a fit of rage before I saw 'voluntary'. I hadn't thought about that and didn't even see the option on the poll, so mistakenly voted to prohibit it completely. But absolutely, so long as they're volunteering and willing for this to happen, I've no problem whatsoever. In fact I think it's quite commendable.

But forcing people to face this kind of treatment - never.

You honestly think that the mother of Baby Peter for example, should be allowed to have another child after the hell that she and her cronies put him through?


You seriously think that the mother who killed her child for a human sacrifice should be allowed to bring another child into the world?

I cannot and will not ever comprehend why anyone would not agree such women should not be forcibly sterilised, legally.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

You honestly think that the mother of Baby Peter for example, should be allowed to have another child after the hell that she and her cronies put him through?


You seriously think that the mother who killed her child for a human sacrifice should be allowed to bring another child into the world?

I cannot and will not ever comprehend why anyone would not agree such women should not be forcibly sterilised, legally.

No, simply because I think both should be imprisoned for life. At least most of it anyway, if not indeed all of it.

As I've said in this thread already, forcing people to be sterilised just seems very authoritarian and quite fascist to me. Not the kind of place I think we should be living or endorsing in 2012, seems pre-historic. We should all count ourselves very lucky that we have human rights that protect us, and as I have already made clear, I don't think, no matter what, those human rights should ever be compromised on. Nobody should be above them, or else we open the doors to potentially all sorts of abuse.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Jack_

No, simply because I think both should be imprisoned for life. At least most of it anyway, if not indeed all of it.

As I've said in this thread already, forcing people to be sterilised just seems very authoritarian and quite fascist to me. Not the kind of place I think we should be living or endorsing in 2012, seems pre-historic. We should all count ourselves very lucky that we have human rights that protect us, and as I have already made clear, I don't think, no matter what, those human rights should ever be compromised on. Nobody should be above them, or else we open the doors to potentially all sorts of abuse.

Women can get pregnant in prison you know. There are male staff in female prisons.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

Women can get pregnant in prison you know. There are male staff in female prisons.

Yeah, I am aware love. No need to state the obvious.

I'm not entirely sure what happens should a female prisoner become pregnant anyway (if anyone knows and could explain I'd be grateful) but I'd imagine, and hope that it'd be left with the woman's family/partner who are outside of prison, should they accept the responsibility of course. If not surely they're put into care/up for adoption? In which case I'd support such action.

[Marc]

Why has Vicky's post been used to start a thread.

Could've kept this in the originaly thread or just PMed each other to debate it

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Marc

Why has Vicky's post been used to start a thread.

Could've kept this in the originaly thread or just PMed each other to debate it

Given that at 124 comments, before mine here have now been posted, it's a bit late in the day for your question & suggestion.

I don't see the issue to be honest - people are still discussing it.

[Mrluvaluva]

Originally Posted by Marc

Why has Vicky's post been used to start a thread.

Could've kept this in the originaly thread or just PMed each other to debate it

A moderator moved it to a new thread.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Mrluvaluva

A moderator moved it to a new thread.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Marc

Why has Vicky's post been used to start a thread.

Could've kept this in the originaly thread or just PMed each other to debate it

Because it was being discussed in the video about the woman beating her baby thread, and then Scott made a new thread and people started discussing it in there too, so I moved all the posts here so we weren't having the same debate in different threads

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Because it was being discussed in the video about the woman beating her baby thread, and then Scott made a new thread and people started discussing it in there too, so I moved all the posts here so we weren't having the same debate in different threads

Sensible Mod.

[Marc]

Indeed they are.

[Marc]

Jesus Matt

[MTVN]

It's just common sense moderating, try it sometime Marc