[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by anniek76

The abhorrent thing in this story is that these children lost their lives. For me it would equally abhorrent if they had been three fully employed adults...the fact that they were benefit claimants is by the by for me when these innocent children lost their chance to grow up.

Exactly.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by anniek76

The abhorrent thing in this story is that these children lost their lives. For me it would equally abhorrent if they had been three fully employed adults...the fact that they were benefit claimants is by the by for me when these innocent children lost their chance to grow up.

would this idiot have been in a position where he had 17 children (11 under one roof), brreding dogs, several women on the go, showing off about his abusive cheating ways on tv, if the benefit system hadnt been economically funding his entire lifestyle. the benefits which in the end he was so scared to lose, they were in fact part of the reason he did what he did which lead to the deaths of these innocent children.

I find it abhorrent that people on here cannot see this and are using this tragedy to support their pro welfare benefits agenda without pointing to the truth, that the benefits system funded this pigs lifestyle and was a crucial part of the reason he got away with his behaviour for so many years and was part of the reason 6 innocent children died

[Vanessa]

Poor kids!

[Vicky.]

If he was so evil because of the benefits system, then how does anyone explain his conviction for attempted murder in 1978 when he was in employment?

As I said earlier, as he was a soldier at that time, was that crime the fault of the army?


Hes just narcissitic monster. I believe this whole thing was more about control than benefits. If you read the BBC story about this it has a lot of details.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-21519890

He tried to frame his ex to punish her for leaving him IMHO. The benefits may have been a part of it...but it was more about control. I reckon this would have still happened whether there were benefits involved or not.

Also I have to say, after reading a bit more about it, I do have a bit of sympathy for the mother of the kids. Though not much.

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by the truth

would this idiot have been in a position where he had 17 children (11 under one roof), brreding dogs, several women on the go, showing off about his abusive cheating ways on tv, if the benefit system hadnt been economically funding his entire lifestyle. the benefits which in the end he was so scared to lose, they were in fact part of the reason he did what he did which lead to the deaths of these innocent children.

I find it abhorrent that people on here cannot see this and are using this tragedy to support their pro welfare benefits agenda without pointing to the truth, that the benefits system funded this pigs lifestyle and was a crucial part of the reason he got away with his behaviour for so many years and was part of the reason 6 innocent children died

I agree his lifestyle was unacceptable but it doesn't change the fact that these children died but for me the fact remains that he killed these children and that Is the crux of the story. Focusing on his lifestyle takes away from the fact that these children lost their chance to live and it saddens me that people are talking more about the fact that he was claiming benefits than the fact that the children died.

As I said previously I couldn't care less that he was on benefits it makes no odds to me, there have been plenty of professional business people who have committed infanticide and I feel as much loathing towards them. Any parent who can take the life of a child that they created deserves to be treated with equal contempt in my eyes regardless of financial circumstances.

We have enough debate on the welfare state happening, can we not mourn the fact that these children lost their right to grow up?

[Nedusa]

I watched him on a news report when he and his wife gave a press conference just after the deaths of his six children. No real emotion only false tears for the camera... Almost beyond belief that he was not really that bothered that 6 of his children were dead.

For most people the grief would be palpable and almost too much to bear, for him he had to actually act upset and fake grief.... How is this even possible ??

What does this say about the mindset of this vile and loathsome creature...!!!

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

I watched him on a news report when he and his wife gave a press conference just after the deaths of his six children. No real emotion only false tears for the camera... Almost beyond belief that he was not really that bothered that 6 of his children were dead.

For most people the grief would be palpable and almost too much to bear, for him he had to actually act upset and fake grief.... How is this even possible ??

What does this say about the mindset of this vile and loathsome creature...!!!

A mortuary manager said Philpott engaged in "horseplay" when he went to view his children's bodies, even putting a family liaison officer in a headlock during one visit.

I hope he rots in jail.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

I watched him on a news report when he and his wife gave a press conference just after the deaths of his six children. No real emotion only false tears for the camera... Almost beyond belief that he was not really that bothered that 6 of his children were dead.

For most people the grief would be palpable and almost too much to bear, for him he had to actually act upset and fake grief.... How is this even possible ??

What does this say about the mindset of this vile and loathsome creature...!!!

Very good points and well said Nedusa, it was also pointed out on TV today his acting at that press conference.

Such as wiping above his eyes while supposedly crying, with not a tear in sight,despite the fact you cry down from the bottom and sides of the eye not upwards.

Awful story, a massive tragedy caused by someone who has to be a really sick and rotten individual.
That is the only thing that matters as to this tragedy as a lot of others have said in this thread,not papers exploiting the story for their other agendas.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I hope he rots in jail.

I would hate to be him in Prison Vicky, he will get the shock of his life,prisoners always have ways and means to get to those they really want to and child killers are despised.

[the truth]

the tax payer has supported this scumbags evil lifestyle for 30 years, thats 30 years too long. where were the social services?

[Niall]

Originally Posted by the truth

would this idiot have been in a position where he had 17 children (11 under one roof), brreding dogs, several women on the go, showing off about his abusive cheating ways on tv, if the benefit system hadnt been economically funding his entire lifestyle. the benefits which in the end he was so scared to lose, they were in fact part of the reason he did what he did which lead to the deaths of these innocent children.

I find it abhorrent that people on here cannot see this and are using this tragedy to support their pro welfare benefits agenda without pointing to the truth, that the benefits system funded this pigs lifestyle and was a crucial part of the reason he got away with his behaviour for so many years and was part of the reason 6 innocent children died

I think you're missing the point. What you seem to be implying (well from what I can gather anyway), is that benefits breed a culture of such debauchery in claimants, and I think everyone knows that that isn't the case.

The fact is that he killed six of his children in a premeditated attack on his own home. That's the important thing here, even if he was on benefits here.

The problem with this country is that the benefits problem is so distorted because of the mass media attention it gets. If you want to worry about the money lost by the state then look to the billions lost in corporate tax fraud which sits un-investiagted. The fact remains that although his benefits may have funded his lifestyle, you can't blame benefits and his fear of losing them for his actions. What he did was a mixture of callousness and a clear disregard for the safety of other people, and last time I checked, the dole didn't turn people into emotionless monsters like Philpott.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by the truth

the tax payer has supported this scumbags evil lifestyle for 30 years, thats 30 years too long. where were the social services?

Well to me, it is clear he has cleverly manipulated and fooled them much the same way he has all others too.
If there doesn't appear to be anything really wrong at a home and the Children appear cared for then social services cannot really do anything.

Maybe other than the size of his family and perhaps his arrogance too with rather a crude lifestyle, he wasn't doing anything illegal and no one was complaining about him to alert anyone to anything either.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Well to me, it is clear he has cleverly manipulated and fooled them much the same way he has all others too.
If there doesn't appear to be anything really wrong at a home and the Children appear cared for then social services cannot really do anything.

Maybe other than the size of his family and perhaps his arrogance too with rather a crude lifestyle, he wasn't doing anything illegal and no one was complaining about him to alert anyone to anything either.

11 kids 2 adults and dogs in a 3 bedroom house? it doesnt take a genius to work out thats unhealthy and dangerous.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by the truth

11 kids 2 adults and dogs in a 3 bedroom house? it doesnt take a genius to work out thats unhealthy and dangerous.

Not if there is no sign of anything being wrong The Truth,there are no laws against any of the things you have listed in your post.

What could social services do as long as they saw sleeping arrangements were in order,the only thing they would have likely done was get him a bigger house if one was available.
What of the baove is illegal and on the programme about him, the children looked healthy,his wife made no complaint as to him.
What was illegal about anything you state above.

Clearly people who knew them saw nothing to complain about either.I do think social services fail a great many people and children in particular but in this case they would have had nothing whatsoever to interfere in,except to help them get a bigger dwelling.

Good grief,he even had busybody Ann Widdecombe visit him at their home as to guiding him to get a job, no matter what she saw when she was there, there was nothing she could have reported or acted on and she certainly could never have foreseen this likely tragedy either.

So social services would not have had a leg to stand on even if they were suspicious of anything, which I doubt they were anyway.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Not if there is no sign of anything being wrong The Truth,there are no laws against any of the things you have listed in your post.

What could social services do as long as they saw sleeping arrangements were in order,the only thing they would have likely done was get him a bigger house if one was available.
What of the baove is illegal and on the programme about him, the children looked healthy,his wife made no complaint as to him.
What was illegal about anything you state above.

Clearly people who knew them saw nothing to complain about either.I do think social services fail a great many people and children in particular but in this case they would have had nothing whatsoever to interfere in,except to help them get a bigger dwelling.

Good grief,he even had busybody Ann Widdecombe visit him at their home as to guiding him to get a job, no matter what she saw when she was there, there was nothing she could have reported or acted on and she certainly could never have foreseen this likely tragedy either.

So social services would not have had a leg to stand on even if they were suspicious of anything, which I doubt they were anyway.

lots of assumptions there, he has a long criminal past, hes proven to be a violent man, hes got 11 kids there and many others elsewhere, hes breeding dogs, he threatens people on national tv, to have that many people and animals in a 3 bedroom house is a fire hazard at best. its tragic the benefits system help support this mans disgusting lifestyle. its even more tragic that it came to this. the social services shoul have done way way more. you can just see from the way he behaves and from his record he is a disgusting bully boy.

[Kizzy]

they were rather unorthodox yes, however it cannot be said that his large family or the fact he was a benefit claimant was a contributory factor in this case can it?

The court did not hear that, 35 years ago, Philpott crept into the home of Kim Hill after she wrote him a letter ending their relationship. Hill, who was 17 at the time, was in bed when he attacked her, knifing her more than a dozen times, before turning on her mother, Shirley, a nurse.

Philpott, aged 21 at the time of the attack, was convicted of the attempted murder of Hill and of grievous bodily harm to her mother in December 1978. He was sentenced to seven years, with the judge warning that he was a dangerous man.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/ap...evil-philpotts

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by the truth

lots of assumptions there, he has a long criminal past, hes proven to be a violent man, hes got 11 kids there and many others elsewhere, hes breeding dogs, he threatens people on national tv, to have that many people and animals in a 3 bedroom house is a fire hazard at best. its tragic the benefits system help support this mans disgusting lifestyle. its even more tragic that it came to this. the social services shoul have done way way more. you can just see from the way he behaves and from his record he is a disgusting bully boy.

The law states he would have to have the assistance of benefits, whatever the rights and wrongs of the benefits system, this is an extreme case and I am not going to exploit this tragedy for any failings as to the welfare situation.

It isn't a fire hazard to have 11 children and 2 adults and dogs in the house.
The children he has elsewhere don't come into this and thank goodness they don't as they are still alive, they had nothing to do with his living arrangements at this particular house.
As for his criminal record, well whatever he did in the past,when convicted he will have been given a sentence, once that is paid then he is a citizen again.

He is an awful individual but the law would state he had to have this benefits help, he was in the army, so he has paid into the system too in his time.

We cannot just go around and remove benefits and cast out people just because of the way they appear to behave, people have to do something criminally worng first.
He had in the past but had done whatever sentence was given.

We can go round in circles but for sure no one that ever,and I stress ever knew him raised any alarms as to him being a threat to his or others children.

This is a sick, also in my view despicable tragedy, he has been found guilty of this and will hopefully be sent to prison for a very long time now.
The really sad thing about all this,is that it has taken this tragedy to really and fully expose his even more deep rooted nastiness as an individual.

Before it occurred, no matter what his behaviour may have been,he wasn't doing or claiming anything wrongly that anyone could guess never mind see to have to do anything about.

He has been exposed as total scum and he will pay very heavily not only with the prison sentence he gets but also the treatment he will get from other prisoners once they can get to him.

[Shaun]

The issue of his class is rather thrown into disrepute when you consider Harold Shipman was terribly middle class and responsible for 215 deaths. Just a shoddy, poor argument used by ignorant people.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

The law states he would have to have the assistance of benefits, whatever the rights and wrongs of the benefits system, this is an extreme case and I am not going to exploit this tragedy for any failings as to the welfare situation.

It isn't a fire hazard to have 11 children and 2 adults and dogs in the house.
The children he has elsewhere don't come into this and thank goodness they don't as they are still alive, they had nothing to do with his living arrangements at this particular house.
As for his criminal record, well whatever he did in the past,when convicted he will have been given a sentence, once that is paid then he is a citizen again.

He is an awful individual but the law would state he had to have this benefits help, he was in the army, so he has paid into the system too in his time.

We cannot just go around and remove benefits and cast out people just because of the way they appear to behave, people have to do something criminally worng first.
He had in the past but had done whatever sentence was given.

We can go round in circles but for sure no one that ever,and I stress ever knew him raised any alarms as to him being a threat to his or others children.

This is a sick, also in my view despicable tragedy, he has been found guilty of this and will hopefully be sent to prison for a very long time now.
The really sad thing about all this,is that it has taken this tragedy to really and fully expose his even more deep rooted nastiness as an individual.

Before it occurred, no matter what his behaviour may have been,he wasn't doing or claiming anything wrongly that anyone could guess never mind see to have to do anything about.

He has been exposed as total scum and he will pay very heavily not only with the prison sentence he gets but also the treatment he will get from other prisoners once they can get to him.

thankfully a cap has been brought in, scum like that need to be discouraged from breeding purely to make money and get free handouts for children he didnt care about. he and his wife didnt even visit the last dying child at his hospital bed, they were instead seem ordering chinese food and arguing over how rubbish the nhs was.....they duly went straight back to their drinking and socializing and swingers lifestyle all funded for by the benefits system....I blame the labour government for creating this chavland dependency culture and rewarding violent controlling dangerous scum like this. heck we as a nation made him a celebrity. what a disastrous culture new labour created.

[Nedusa]

I think one of the main points here was that this man needed the child benefits of 11 children in order to fund his workshy idle lifestyle . These children were commodities to him , the more children he has living in that house the more benefit he could claim and spend.

I think the Social Services should have intervened years ago , how they allowed 13 people to live in a small 3 bedroom house should be investigated. This man had criminal conviction s for violence and entrusting him the care of 11 children was always risky.

I know hindsight's a wonderful thing but is it really any surprise this family are in the news again ? I think Social Services must investigate why so many children were allowed to live in such cramped conditions under the supervision of a Man who was a convicted murderer who made his living by accumulating children and spending their child benefits.

An appalling story from every angle and should justifiably be on the front covers of nearly all national newspapers...!!!!

Originally Posted by Nedusa

I think one of the main points here was that this man needed the child benefits of 11 children in order to fund his workshy idle lifestyle . These children were commodities to him , the more children he has living in that house the more benefit he could claim and spend.

I think the Social Services should have intervened years ago , how they allowed 13 people to live in a small 3 bedroom house should be investigated. This man had criminal conviction s for violence and entrusting him the care of 11 children was always risky.

I know hindsight's a wonderful thing but is it really any surprise this family are in the news again ? I think Social Services must investigate why so many children were allowed to live in such cramped conditions under the supervision of a Man who was a convicted murderer who made his living by accumulating children and spending their child benefits.

An appalling story from every angle and should justifiably be on the front covers of nearly all national newspapers...!!!!

In your opinion, what could be done to prevent this?

What if we stopped all benefit payments in the country? Would that work?
What about if we forcefully sterilised him against his will? Would that work?
Introduced a law saying that criminals are not allowed to have children?

The benefits system, by it's very nature is imperfect. You will always have people that abuse the system - regardless of what the system is to begin with.

The majority of people out there on benefits rely on them to help survive day to day. This is a safety net that government provide.

Someone should start a rival newspaper up to the daily heil, based solely on stories about people who grew up on benefits but have since gone on to go to university/own their own homes/build business/achieve personal levels of success etc, because the turning attitudes of people in this country, towards people less fortunate, is sickening. Anyone of us at anytime, could find ourselves in a situation where we needed help.

Providing benefits for people actually provides stimulation for the economy, as every penny is spent, and ensures we don't live in post apocalyptic ghetto's where we have to board up our houses after dark.

[joeysteele]

I agree more with Nedusa as to this, obviously they had to live somewhere though and this is the house he was given.
As I said earlier he even had Ann Widdecombe at his house,that was on TV I believe but nothing was done as to upgrade him to a bigger dwelling.
We can go round the houses all the time as to his criminal past and whether he was right to have so many children, however his past doesn't come into the benefits equation,nor was he doing anything illegal having so many children and claiming for them.
Blaming particular political party's for this tragedy is also below the belt.

To use this extreme case which is greatly far from the norm as to benefit claimants and to jump on same to get at the benefits system does nothing really for this tragic story.
That is what the Daily Mail did and most have criticised the Mail for that exploitation of a tragedy.

For me, it is the loss of lthe lives of 6 children here at the hands of their Parent/s, no matter the size of the house, nothing else should have been more sure than children are safe with and protected by their Parents.
This man fooled just about everyone,no one believed they were in any danger from him so this is a tragedy arising from a pretty rotten mind really of someone who at least morally should never have had children.

I really hope his sentence today is a very long one indeed,anyone deliberately starting a fire knowing 6 children were in the house is totally rotten and should be kept away from society for good in my opinion,the fact they were his children in the house only makes the whole thing even worse than it already is.
That act he committed is the reason for this tragedy.

Will lessons have been learned, I really hope so.

[Vicky.]

I agree with the benefit cap..though the majority of people who claim over £500pw or whatever it is..most of it goes to landlords, not claimants. A rent cap at the same time would be better (and would help those in work too) but thats not happening anytime soon

But I still dont think it would stop people like this from having kids.

Its easy enough to say his reasons were all about money. But he has a history of controlling and violent behaviour. The benefits might well have played a part, but it would have happened either way..as it appears the main point was to get back at the woman who dared to leave him.

[arista]

Vicky that D.Mail does not Imply
thats everyone on benefits is like that killer.

Ann W.
last night said that.

[Livia]

There are plenty of people like this man peppered around the country. We all know people like this, don't we? Who haven't worked for decades, if ever, and who have milked the system for years. But every thinking person knows that they are they exception rather than the rule and they do not represent the vast majority of people who quite ligitimately claim benefits to which they are entitled. However, the fact is that this man (I use the term "man" in its loosest possible sense) has lived his debauched life expense-free on the back of every hard-working tax-payer in this country. I don't see the point of getting all outraged because a newspaper (again, using the term loosely) points out that he is a freeloading parasite. I would say that's the mildest form on insult for him, considering the crime he committed, one so terrible that it's almost incomprehensible.