[arista]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

A five year old does not have enough hate to be racist.

Yes they play with adult words
for fun




Great Point Girth.

[Vicky.]

Netmums is quite an underrated site. The debates can get very interesting on there. I am not a member but read it quite often

[Apple202]

i wouldnt use it and wouldnt expect anyone else to, even if they were black

i think the whole 'reclaiming word' thing is stupid (and if it was reclaimed, wouldnt everyone be able to use it??) the whole thing just causes more division then it solves and it'd be better if the word just wasn't used in general

[Ninastar]

Originally Posted by Apple202

i wouldnt use it and wouldnt expect anyone else to, even if they were black

i think the whole 'reclaiming word' thing is stupid (and if it was reclaimed, wouldnt everyone be able to use it??) the whole thing just causes more division then it solves and it'd be better if the word just wasn't used in general

preach it sista

[Apple202]

and on a kind of related note (looking at vickys post) i didnt even know ****** meant gay person until like year 8 lol i just thought it was a random insult throughout all of year 6 and 7

[InOne]

I can't recall a time I've ever used the word. If some Black people want to call each other that then it's up to them. They don't need White people patronising them telling them they shouldn't use it just because they don't like it themselves.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by InOne

I can't recall a time I've ever used the word. If some Black people want to call each other that then it's up to them. They don't need White people patronising them telling them they shouldn't use it just because they don't like it themselves.

exactly

[Z]

Originally Posted by InOne

I can't recall a time I've ever used the word. If some Black people want to call each other that then it's up to them. They don't need White people patronising them telling them they shouldn't use it just because they don't like it themselves.

I think it's a self perpetuating problem. The reclamation of the n word hasn't involved any kind of changing of meaning, compared to, say, homosexuals claiming the word gay - the word had a different meaning and then was claimed by that community to mean something else. The n word will always evoke the intention of a slur because the community that has tried to reclaim it hasn't significantly tried to change the definition of the word or allowed it to be used by people outside of the community. It's a taboo for non-black people to use the word, which is why it's still a problematic term. If there had been a movement for the word to become a term for 'friend' as it's generally intended nowadays, but for use by anyone, I think we'd be in a different place now... but by keeping the word exclusively to the community that it was originally used to slur, it means there's been no real advance in changing how the word is perceived by the world at large, just that within that community the word has been reclaimed.

I don't know if that makes much sense to other people or if I'm articulating myself particularly well but I just see such a huge difference in how the n word has been "reclaimed" (i.e. only for one group of people) and how the term gay, as an example, has been claimed and used in a positive way for everyone to use and move forward with. Before anyone jumps on me for comparing those two things, I'm in no way comparing the struggles of black people to those of gay people, but just comparing how the two words have evolved over the last few decades.

[InOne]

Originally Posted by Zee

I think it's a self perpetuating problem. The reclamation of the n word hasn't involved any kind of changing of meaning, compared to, say, homosexuals claiming the word gay - the word had a different meaning and then was claimed by that community to mean something else. The n word will always evoke the intention of a slur because the community that has tried to reclaim it hasn't significantly tried to change the definition of the word or allowed it to be used by people outside of the community. It's a taboo for non-black people to use the word, which is why it's still a problematic term. If there had been a movement for the word to become a term for 'friend' as it's generally intended nowadays, but for use by anyone, I think we'd be in a different place now... but by keeping the word exclusively to the community that it was originally used to slur, it means there's been no real advance in changing how the word is perceived by the world at large, just that within that community the word has been reclaimed.

I don't know if that makes much sense to other people or if I'm articulating myself particularly well but I just see such a huge difference in how the n word has been "reclaimed" (i.e. only for one group of people) and how the term gay, as an example, has been claimed and used in a positive way for everyone to use and move forward with. Before anyone jumps on me for comparing those two things, I'm in no way comparing the struggles of black people to those of gay people, but just comparing how the two words have evolved over the last few decades.

But do people use the term 'reclaiming' to describe why they ended up using it? I don't know the progression of how it happened but would be interesting to find out. It's used in all different contexts with black people, not all bad. And I don't see many white people use the word really or probably don't even think about it until topics like this come up. It's almost like a debate that doesn't really need debating. I'm sure there would be campaigns in the black communities if they felt that strongly about other black people using it.

[Me. I Am Salman]

Originally Posted by InOne

I can't recall a time I've ever used the word. If some Black people want to call each other that then it's up to them. They don't need White people patronising them telling them they shouldn't use it just because they don't like it themselves.

this sums it up

[Vicky.]

I guess I just dont see why the colour of someones skin should have any bearing on anything in this day and age, even things as silly as who can say what word

[Brother Leon]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I guess I just dont see why the colour of someones skin should have any bearing on anything in this day and age, even things as silly as who can say what word

I agree usually, but this is obviously a word that was originally used in terms of skin colour anyway and was something used almost exclusively by White people to degrade.

I don't really get the argument over why black people shouldn't want to try change what the word used to mean. It's not like they are going around calling white people Honkeys etc as some form of retribution (that I would disagree with doing of course)

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Brother Leon

I agree usually, but this is obviously a word that was originally used in terms of skin colour anyway and was something used almost exclusively by White people to degrade.

I don't really get the argument over why black people shouldn't want to try change what the word used to mean. It's not like they are going around calling white people Honkeys etc as some form of retribution (that I would disagree with doing of course)

I actually find the word honkey quite funny..and if someone called me that I think I would crack up

I get what you are saying though. But in the same tone I think it should be acceptable for white people to say they find the word uncomfortable (given connections) without being called patronizing or similar.

It's not solely about reclaiming the word to change it's meaning. Simply disarming it is enough, without having white people set the parameters of how black people either should use it, or defining the measures for success of black people using it.

It's pretty simple - if you're white don't use it, if you're black, then it's your choice.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

It's not solely about reclaiming the word to change it's meaning. Simply disarming it is enough, without having white people set the parameters of how black people either should use it, or defining the measures for success of black people using it.

It's pretty simple - if you're white don't use it, if you're black, then it's your choice.

Yes play it safe

[Z]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

It's not solely about reclaiming the word to change it's meaning. Simply disarming it is enough, without having white people set the parameters of how black people either should use it, or defining the measures for success of black people using it.

It's pretty simple - if you're white don't use it, if you're black, then it's your choice.

But I don't think it's been adequately disarmed. Within the black community, some black people now use it as a term more along the lines of comrade, friend, brother; but as it's not accepted widely (by virtue of it being exclusively okay for black people to use) the word is therefore still loaded and now it's not clear what it means and depends completely on context and perception. That girl got kicked out of Big Brother for saying the n word despite not using it in a hostile, offensive way which I think sums up the entire problem - it's not clear what the word really means anymore. It's all good and well saying white people shouldn't go near the word as it is, because they shouldn't, but it doesn't help to remove the problematic nature of the word itself.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Brother Leon

I agree usually, but this is obviously a word that was originally used in terms of skin colour anyway and was something used almost exclusively by White people to degrade.

I don't really get the argument over why black people shouldn't want to try change what the word used to mean. It's not like they are going around calling white people Honkeys etc as some form of retribution (that I would disagree with doing of course)

Have you heard that 1975 Chicago Soul Band Track?
Its so Funky Honkey Zee loves it

http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/foru...t=super+people

[Vicky.]

It is kinda a non-discussion that gets discussed a lot, I agree

[Shaun]

I think it's futile arguing that the word should be "forgotten" or "not used any more" because words aren't "forgotten", especially when they carry such weight.

[Z]

Originally Posted by Shaun

I think it's futile arguing that the word should be "forgotten" or "not used any more" because words aren't "forgotten", especially when they carry such weight.

Which is why words need to be shaped to mean something else. I think the n word has a long way to go before it reaches that level and part of the problem is the (understandly) defensive nature that rests over who is and isn't allowed to use the word. By reclaiming it only for a certain group of people, it means for everyone outside of that group the word remains taboo but has a new edge to it because it no longer means just one thing which just makes it more confusing, not clearer.

[Ninastar]

I agree with what you're saying Zee. i just wish i could put it into words as well as you do

[Shaun]

I always feel awkward when singing (lol) along to songs that use it but I think that's the only instance I've ever felt the need to say it (because then I'm just quoting someone else).

[smeagol]

no one should be allowed to say it , i think its pathetic people jumping up and down screaming people are racist but then they go and use that word themselves then wonder why theres racist people.
There is no reclaiming the word its just a excuse to cause a divide and be different but whats ironic is it took how many to be treated the same. talk about undoing good.
There will never be one world all the time people are finding ways to cause divides.

i find it offensive in every way.

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by smeagol

no one should be allowed to say it , i think its pathetic people jumping up and down screaming people are racist but then they go and use that word themselves then wonder why theres racist people.
There is no reclaiming the word its just a excuse to cause a divide and be different but whats ironic is it took how many to be treated the same. talk about undoing good.
There will never be one world all the time people are finding ways to cause divides.

i find it offensive in every way.

Totally agree.........as I said earlier it is an offensive word and no one should use it. There is no "reclaiming" the word for Black people that's just street talk. Fact is the word is always going to give offence and so should be allowed to fade from use

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

Totally agree.........as I said earlier it is an offensive word and no one should use it. There is no "reclaiming" the word for Black people that's just street talk. Fact is the word is always going to give offence and so should be allowed to fade from use

Who are white people to decide that though? We weren't the ones it was used against in such a disgusting way. Personally, I think white people should have no say in it at all. I think maybe white people want it to disappear because they don't want to be reminded of what was done to black people at the hands of white people