[rubymoo]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Not shouting from the rooftops is not hiding or pretending to be something you're not.

She has kept information about herself private, just as Dani had.

The only thing Dani did was to have a persona and as it's a gameshow she's entitled to do that.

[Achilles]

Helen has been herself since day one, warts and all.
Danielle was fake from day one to her eviction.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by rubymoo

She has kept information about herself private, just as Dani had.

The only thing Dani did was to have a persona and as it's a gameshow she's entitled to do that.

Yes, but having her fake persona exposed is not Helen's fault or problem. That's BB being unfair, hardly Helen's issue.

Keeping something private is not the same as lying about it.

If I kept the fact I'd killed someone a secret doesn't mean I'm denying or lying about it.

If I went about pretending to be a Catholic with morals who would never do such things, then I'd be pretending to be something I'm not.

It is not the same thing.

[rubymoo]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Yes, but having her fake persona exposed is not Helen's fault or problem. That's BB being unfair, hardly Helen's issue.

Keeping something private is not the same as lying about it.

If I kept the fact I'd killed someone a secret doesn't mean I'm denying or lying about it.

If I went about pretending to be a Catholic with morals who would never do such things, then I'd be pretending to be something I'm not.

It is not the same thing.

So going by your above statement, it's ok for Dani to keep her private life private, i.e. webcam, raunchy photos, and by not mentioning them is ok because that means she's just keeping it private and keeping something private is not the same as lying.

The problem lies in the fact that you see that she was pretending to be a catholic with morals, whereas i see that this was a persona just trying to win BB.

I think we're actually flogging a dead horse now and should agree to disagree

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by rubymoo

So going by your above statement, it's ok for Dani to keep her private life private, i.e. webcam, raunchy photos, and by not mentioning them is ok because that means she's just keeping it private and keeping something private is not the same as lying.

The problem lies in the fact that you see that she was pretending to be a catholic with morals, whereas i see that this was a persona just trying to win BB.

Where have I said it wasn't a persona designed to win BB?

You were the one who said Helen was just like Danielle concealing her past.
I simply pointed out that it's completely different. Keeping your past private is not the same as lying, that's just obvious.

Danielle lied about herself, Helen didn't. That is a difference. Danielle simply not divulging info is fine, as it is with anyone. Make OTT lies about it and you'll be caught out and people will want to expose you.

Trying to play a character in a show with such exposure is never a plan that works. You always get caught. Dexter did well last year but not because anyone believed his fake persona.

I never insinuated it made Danielle worse than Helen, just that it doesn't make Helen a hypocrite.

[CaudleHalbard]

What has Helen lied about?

I've obviously missed something.

[Achilles]

Originally Posted by rubymoo

So going by your above statement, it's ok for Dani to keep her private life private, i.e. webcam, raunchy photos, and by not mentioning them is ok because that means she's just keeping it private and keeping something private is not the same as lying.

The problem lies in the fact that you see that she was pretending to be a catholic with morals, whereas i see that this was a persona just trying to win BB.

I think we're actually flogging a dead horse now and should agree to disagree

She can try and win BB by using a fake persona. But she cannot expect sympathy if she gets rumbled. Nasty Nick had a game plan, he got rumbled and ejected. Danielle has lied and been 2 faced, just as much as Nasty Nick. Live by the sword, you die by the sword

[abhorson]

Helen has been two faced too, they all have. Understandable though why she does not want to tell them all about her sordid past. Would anyone?

[abhorson]

Originally Posted by CaudleHalbard

What has Helen lied about?

I've obviously missed something.

Bitching with Bianca in the toilet and then saying she did not to Chris.

They all do it.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Helen wasn't judging her, she found it hilarious that the prude catholic virgin turned out to be the opposite. That's not hypocritical. That's a natural reaction to such revelations.

Helen's past as a prostitute is not protected, the name "Wayne Rooney" is.

It's not about compassion, Danielle had a persona, yes she's allowed one but the embarrassment came from her persona being revealed as a lie, not the past itself.

..it isn't a natural reaction though, it is a judgement and I think what people are saying, how I see it anyway is that I couldn't care less if she slept with the President of the USA but she, more than anyone in there from what we know about her, should know what it's like to be judged because it's what she's always complained about herself, in the Wayne Rooney thing..how she has a 'side'/a story to tell and how 'unfair' it's all been... and then there have been a few revelations about Danielle..which actually have not been validated as yet, have they..?...and she judges based on 'second hand' information and knowing herself that there are 'many truths'.....whereas Chris has said, look this is the person I know/have known in the house and that's the person she remains and then when I leave..we'll see, type thing....for me it's not to do with any previous things Helen has done in her life, it's to do with her lack of understanding or empathy with others and yet she expects so much herself, in fact she almost seems resentful whenever anyone else gets any consideration but expects it all herself...she's just showed very little character for me except for screaming in peoples faces and telling them what she thinks of them....


..and yes, Danielle had a 'persona', she had a gameplan. it's a game-show and her game plan didn't work, no big deal..rather than judge her as a person, why not just see it for what it was and judge her game-plan...


...hmmmm, one thing I'm confused about though, Marsh...did Helen actually say she was a prostitute to Ash..?..I can't recall the conversation exactly but it all felt quite cryptic and not really clear what she was saying and then they dropped the subject or no more of the conversation was shown....

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..it isn't a natural reaction though, it is a judgement and I think what people are saying, how I see it anyway is that I couldn't care less if she slept with the President of the USA but she, more than anyone in there from what we know about her, should know what it's like to be judged because it's what she's always complained about herself, in the Wayne Rooney thing..how she has a 'side'/a story to tell and how 'unfair' it's all been... and then there have been a few revelations about Danielle..which actually have not been validated as yet, have they..?...and she judges based on 'second hand' information and knowing herself that there are 'many truths'.....whereas Chris has said, look this is the person I know/have known in the house and that's the person she remains and then when I leave..we'll see, type thing....for me it's not to do with any previous things Helen has done in her life, it's to do with her lack of understanding or empathy with others and yet she expects so much herself, in fact she almost seems resentful whenever anyone else gets any consideration but expects it all herself...she's just showed very little character for me except for screaming in peoples faces and telling them what she thinks of them....


..and yes, Danielle had a 'persona', she had a gameplan. it's a game-show and her game plan didn't work, no big deal..rather than judge her as a person, why not just see it for what it was and judge her game-plan...


...hmmmm, one thing I'm confused about though, Marsh...did Helen actually say she was a prostitute to Ash..?..I can't recall the conversation exactly but it all felt quite cryptic and not really clear what she was saying and then they dropped the subject or no more of the conversation was shown....

she was talking about a famous person she slept with and then said "it was my job" so she didn't say the words but I think Ash did get it....

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

she was talking about a famous person she slept with and then said "it was my job" so she didn't say the words but I think Ash did get it....

..ahhh, I couldn't remember if she said 'famous person', so maybe he dis understand and knows what her job was but that still isn't being honest to the other housemates and yeah she hasn't actually said that she's something different either but she still is so quick to judge others for anything and without actual 'proof' as it were and yet it's something she's hated herself, so she has very little empathy for anyone and yet seems to feel that it's unjust for herself to be so 'misunderstood' in the outside world...her whole life seems to be ...ughhh, I've been treated like **** and yet that's how she treats others...nothing to admire there at all, just a self centred, self pitying, bitter person....

[rubymoo]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..it isn't a natural reaction though, it is a judgement and I think what people are saying, how I see it anyway is that I couldn't care less if she slept with the President of the USA but she, more than anyone in there from what we know about her, should know what it's like to be judged because it's what she's always complained about herself, in the Wayne Rooney thing..how she has a 'side'/a story to tell and how 'unfair' it's all been... and then there have been a few revelations about Danielle..which actually have not been validated as yet, have they..?...and she judges based on 'second hand' information and knowing herself that there are 'many truths'.....whereas Chris has said, look this is the person I know/have known in the house and that's the person she remains and then when I leave..we'll see, type thing....for me it's not to do with any previous things Helen has done in her life, it's to do with her lack of understanding or empathy with others and yet she expects so much herself, in fact she almost seems resentful whenever anyone else gets any consideration but expects it all herself...she's just showed very little character for me except for screaming in peoples faces and telling them what she thinks of them....


..and yes, Danielle had a 'persona', she had a gameplan. it's a game-show and her game plan didn't work, no big deal..rather than judge her as a person, why not just see it for what it was and judge her game-plan...


...hmmmm, one thing I'm confused about though, Marsh...did Helen actually say she was a prostitute to Ash..?..I can't recall the conversation exactly but it all felt quite cryptic and not
really clear what she was saying and then they dropped the subject or no more of the conversation was shown....

Thank you Ammi, the voice of reason

[Marsh.]

[rubymoo]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

it's a new day!

Clean slate

[Ammi]

..I do kind of get what Marsh is saying.....the thing is though that most people who don't like Helen..(myself included..)..don't like her because of her behaviour in the house and not for anything to do with her outside life..and I guess that behaviour can be viewed differently as well in that I personally think it's spiteful, bitter and hurtful but it's also been viewed as a 'at least she's honest/upfront/open' type thing..

...and I know she's restricted by the courts but she can reveal to the others what she already has to Ash, although I still think that conversation was a little ambiguous...does she have to..?...well no, but then I can only assume (as she's revealed it to one of them ) that she chooses not to because she herself doesn't want to be judged... because she can't be nominated so it's nothing to do with that...well that's cool as well because 'being judged' is something she feels sensitive about.. but she can't then be said to be this open and honest person when she can give out judgements so freely with all the things she's said to others and about others but then can't take it herself..she's only open and honest on her own terms and when it suits her but even then, it's just her own opinions/dislikes and judgements of other housemates....

...and yeah, ok..it's all a bit funny with Danielle being such a prude in the house and then finding out that wasn't so but it was still no less of a judgement from Helen nevertheless because it's human nature to be amused/think it's hilarious etc.. but not human nature to judge as Chris proved in his fairness about it and his reserving of judgement..which for Helen in turn is quite hypocritical as someone who has hated so much to be judged herself...

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

.....

[Marsh.]

It's just that feeling when you know what you want to say but it's not being communicated across as easily as it should be.

Never mind.

[Johnnyuk123]

Once a slag always a slag.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by rubymoo

She has kept information about herself private, just as Dani had.

The only thing Dani did was to have a persona and as it's a gameshow she's entitled to do that.

Exactly "Honest Helen " has not told the others of her profession as a *****,ok thats her choice, but at least have the decency to not condemn others for doing the same ,that DOES make her an hypocrite

[RobynTheELF]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

Exactly "Honest Helen " has not told the others of her profession as a *****,ok thats her choice, but at least have the decency to not condemn others for doing the same ,that DOES make her an hypocrite

Can't believe I've arrived at a stage where I find myself defending Helen, but this is the way I see things:
Your statement is flawed because Helen has not condemned Danielle for her profession. Her reason for slagging Danielle off is because Danielle has that holier-than-thou act where she is quick to judge others, and is always going on about her beliefs etc (which she pretty much admitted was an act on BOTS). This started even before the revelation from the new HMs- this was pretty much why she and Danielle had their huge bust up in the beginning.

If Danielle had been herself, she would not have had (as much) trouble from the housemates and from the public after the new housemates revealed her profession. She couldn't handle it not because she was revealed as a webcam girl etc, but because she was revealed to be a hypocrite.

Helen on the other hand told the housemates from the very beginning that she has a shady past, and how she is worried of what the paparazzi are saying about her in the press. This leads me to believe if she COULD reveal all the specifics about her past, she would (it appears as though she can't due to whatever gag order). She hasn't been pretending to be what she isn't in the house either- I have so many criticism on Helen, but I can't call her a hypocrite.