[Kizzy]

Letter from senior health professionals says coalition has left NHS in weakest position ever and calls on people to use votes to reinstate service
(Read the letter in full)
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2...letter-in-full
Leading doctors in the NHS have accused the coalition government of a catalogue of broken promises, funding cuts and destructive legislation which has left the health service weaker than ever before.

'In a letter to the Guardian, more than 140 senior doctors pass a damning judgment on the government’s stewardship of the NHS, which they say is under pressure because of unnecessary market-oriented changes.'

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2...-record-on-nhs

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Letter from senior health professionals says coalition has left NHS in weakest position ever and calls on people to use votes to reinstate service
(Read the letter in full)
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2...letter-in-full
Leading doctors in the NHS have accused the coalition government of a catalogue of broken promises, funding cuts and destructive legislation which has left the health service weaker than ever before.

'In a letter to the Guardian, more than 140 senior doctors pass a damning judgment on the government’s stewardship of the NHS, which they say is under pressure because of unnecessary market-oriented changes.'

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2...-record-on-nhs

Thank you Kizzy, I know one of the signatories to that letter because I am related to him.
Still if people won't listen, they won't listen, if Cameron gets 5 more years with his hands on the NHS,lets see what they are all saying then.
At least we,you and I, can see it now.

[DemolitionRed]

I really wanted to get my teeth into this debate, unfortunately I have a bit of a family crisis to deal with.

Hopefully I'll make it back in time to join in.

[Kizzy]

You must be very proud that they are willing to take a stand Joey
Yes we can, I just hope that the truth trickles out faster and faster until may and more are able to see that the plans are already in place to effectively remove healthcare as a public service.

[DemolitionRed]

The link I initially posted is depressing. Unfortunately most people will never view it.

The NHS is being carved up and shared out amongst interested investors and many of those investors are parliamentarians. Its not just the conservatives; the tentacles of this octopus reach far and wide across other political parties but 75% of those parliamentarians are Conservatives. Politicians with financial interests in health care should not be making or influencing health law. In my opinion, Lords should not be voting on a bill when they have so much to gain from privatizing medicine.

Thatcher once said, “Blair was the best thing that could ever happened for the Conservative government”. Theres no question that it was Blair who initiated back door privatization of the NHS but the Conservatives jumped on that band wagon and continue to have the foxes look after the chicken coop.


I agree with Joey; those with real experience of working in the health sector have been specifically excluded from NHS talks within government. Like you Joey, some of my relatives, including my father, are in the medical profession. Over the years I’ve listened in on their lengthy debates regarding the selling off of the NHS and how the public are being conned into believing the big lie. Our doctors are merely pawns in this big money making machine. Our NHS is a precious national resource regardless of what anyone says and the only reason anyone would wish to destroy that resource is for huge financial personal gain. The NHS belongs to us the people so why are we, its owners being kept in the dark and systematically fed false propaganda regarding its failings? We are being fed a lie and nothing short of an uprising is going to harness these corrupt bastards.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

The link I initially posted is depressing. Unfortunately most people will never view it.

The NHS is being carved up and shared out amongst interested investors and many of those investors are parliamentarians. Its not just the conservatives; the tentacles of this octopus reach far and wide across other political parties but 75% of those parliamentarians are Conservatives. Politicians with financial interests in health care should not be making or influencing health law. In my opinion, Lords should not be voting on a bill when they have so much to gain from privatizing medicine.

Thatcher once said, “Blair was the best thing that could ever happened for the Conservative government”. Theres no question that it was Blair who initiated back door privatization of the NHS but the Conservatives jumped on that band wagon and continue to have the foxes look after the chicken coop.


I agree with Joey; those with real experience of working in the health sector have been specifically excluded from NHS talks within government. Like you Joey, some of my relatives, including my father, are in the medical profession. Over the years I’ve listened in on their lengthy debates regarding the selling off of the NHS and how the public are being conned into believing the big lie. Our doctors are merely pawns in this big money making machine. Our NHS is a precious national resource regardless of what anyone says and the only reason anyone would wish to destroy that resource is for huge financial personal gain. The NHS belongs to us the people so why are we, its owners being kept in the dark and systematically fed false propaganda regarding its failings? We are being fed a lie and nothing short of an uprising is going to harness these corrupt bastards.

Thank you for that Demolition Red, exactly, I would rather anyday believe those who are on the receiving end working in the NHS over this conning PM.
Excellent post.

Your contribution here this morning is spot on and fits in with all I hear from my relatives in the NHS too.

Well voters are warned, they make their choice, believe the medical staff and organisations or this PM who wouldn't see the truth as to the NHS if it hit him in the face.
His word is meaningless as to the NHS, as he demonstrated very clearly in 2010.

[JoshBB]

It really is disgusting how the tories have used the crash to justify cuts to the NHS which have crippled the nurses - given them a harder workload, given them less pay rises.. meant that people cannot get certain treatments anymore. Then they have also made cuts so severe to the welfare system that people have died, almost a million people are using foodbanks and child poverty has gone straight up and doubled. All while this is happening they are throwing around immigration figures to smoke-screen the real issues. Honestly I am relieved that the tories are doing so horribly in the 18-24year olds opinion polls, hopefully even lower by the time people my age are eligible to vote (for me that will be 2020 for the next general election or 2018/2019 for local elections I am not sure)

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

It really is disgusting how the tories have used the crash to justify cuts to the NHS which have crippled the nurses - given them a harder workload, given them less pay rises.. meant that people cannot get certain treatments anymore. Then they have also made cuts so severe to the welfare system that people have died, almost a million people are using foodbanks and child poverty has gone straight up and doubled. All while this is happening they are throwing around immigration figures to smoke-screen the real issues. Honestly I am relieved that the tories are doing so horribly in the 18-24year olds opinion polls, hopefully even lower by the time people my age are eligible to vote (for me that will be 2020 for the next general election or 2018/2019 for local elections I am not sure)

They are doing badly in the 18 to 24 year old age band Josh, they would also be doing worse in the 16 and 17 year old band which is why they would be against the vote for 16 year olds.

Everything you list in your post is right,except that really in the last 5 years Nurses have had no real wage increase due to the higher inflation and wage rises kept below it for them too.

Don't worry as to patronising comments that you are naive or young and therefore maybe your views are clouded, I was only 18 when I joined and was a student, and got hammered just for being a student as to my opinions.

You clearly read up on things and have also likely seen things in life you feel and even know to be wrong and that there must be better way as to doing things too.
That comes across in your posts,so carry on.

We hear a lot from this govt; as to what we owe to the future generation but some can only put the young down,so take no notice.
Great post,full of facts again from you.

I was only 14 when I had to help care for my Grandad and then My Grandmother later, at that age,I learned far more about life and how things could and should be than I would from others,all from experience.

Keep your posts going as they are. All my best to you.

[bots]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

It really is disgusting how the tories have used the crash to justify cuts to the NHS which have crippled the nurses - given them a harder workload, given them less pay rises.. meant that people cannot get certain treatments anymore. Then they have also made cuts so severe to the welfare system that people have died, almost a million people are using foodbanks and child poverty has gone straight up and doubled. All while this is happening they are throwing around immigration figures to smoke-screen the real issues. Honestly I am relieved that the tories are doing so horribly in the 18-24year olds opinion polls, hopefully even lower by the time people my age are eligible to vote (for me that will be 2020 for the next general election or 2018/2019 for local elections I am not sure)

Peoples political persuasions and what they consider important in life reflect their own personal circumstances as they go through life.

For example, in the Scottish Independence referendum, the age limit was lowered by the SNP to increase its chances of success, largely, because people in that age group are less concerned about economics and family security. What I'm trying to say is that there will always be an 18-24 year old age group that favours particular beliefs, but it doesn't follow that when the same people are in the 25-30 range they will retain the same beliefs.

[user104658]

The sad truth is that people vote through fear. It's the number one motivator. And the current government, with its hammering home of austerity has people terrified about numbers and money, that we'll end up drinking dirty water and eating flies. It's got people whipped up to the point where they are more worried about money and budgets than they are about their own health.

And that's why people will happily watch the NHS crumble if they think it will "save money".

People believe the rhetoric and are completely taken in by the spin, the lies, the tabloid articles. They believe that the NHS has to go because it's unaffordable. They determinedly stuff their fingers in their ears and cover their eyes to the sinister truth that it's being sold off by individuals with conflicts of interest, for their own profit.

[Kizzy]

Reducing faith and public confidence in the NHS has been happening for a long time, as well as the stories in the media regarding waiting times and waste, the rot does seem to be from within also due to the persecution of whistleblowers, this I hope is addressed urgently.
None of the issues however should mean that the national health service should come to an end, as always the truth will out.
However it's not surprising not as many are aware of how they are being kept in the dark about the seriousness and the full extent of the problems with hidden reports, restricted funding, media blocks on demonstrations, waiting times.
My sister worked in the LGI as a nurse and a specialist nurse for 25yrs she's seen the changes and they are in no way patient centered or geared towards good clinical care.
You cannot run a hospital as a business.

[Livia]

Let's hope they can sort out the 'missed appointments' problem that costs the NHS so much money.

[Kizzy]

I'm wondering what they could do to counter that... Save from asking people when they plan to be ill and booking a car to collect them I can't think of a solution.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I'm wondering what they could do to counter that... Save from asking people when they plan to be ill and booking a car to collect them I can't think of a solution.

Exactly. When you can only book an appointment a week in advance - then you wake up on the day feeling fine - what can you do? You either call and cancel or... What... Go anyway? For what possible reason?

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Exactly. When you can only book an appointment a week in advance - then you wake up on the day feeling fine - what can you do? You either call and cancel or... What... Go anyway? For what possible reason?

Call and cancel so someone else can have the appointment, obviously. Then that person won't have to wait a week, will they.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Exactly. When you can only book an appointment a week in advance - then you wake up on the day feeling fine - what can you do? You either call and cancel or... What... Go anyway? For what possible reason?

Called the docs this morning, they have nothing this MONTH! I have never heard that one before..apparently if I call tomorrow I can get 'triaged' and seen the same day, but I feel awful taking an emergency appointment just for medication. If they would just rewrite my bloody perscription there would be no problem...been on the same tablets for months for gods sake, and no change in my illness...

[Kizzy]

Is there evidence that this is one of the most detrimental and pressing issues facing the NHS today?
It is one of the... in fact maybe the only aspect that could be considered the fault of the service users.

[Vicky.]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...letter-5488071

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...letter-5488071

The sad thing is I wish the NHS was not part of political wrangling,however once this not voted for top down re-organsiation of the NHS was done by Cameron,it has caused massive problems and dismay among NHS staff,

There are Doctors and even Nurses who support the Conservatives,the thread asks if the Conservatives are a threat to the NHS, my answer is the same, only yes this present conservative party and this conservative PM is.

It is true, Conservative PMs and govts; have up to Margaret Thatchers worked well for the NHS in the past, definitely not however this one.

There is a candidate standing in Jeremy Hunt's own seat for the National Health party who want the reforms repealed,so bad were they.

This PM and govt; just will not listen and rides through like a bulldozer the opinions of the the medical staff employed in the NHS.
Dismissing everything and acheiving nothing at all, because in my view he doesn't want to achieve anything, other than bring it to its knees to be snapped up by private organisations who will then be able to run it on a profit basis,not a 'care' basis.

This attempt to 'manipulate' a letter does not surprise me,they will try any trick at all.
I am glad this didn't succeed and hope it means another backlash for this PM and this govt;

I actually feel sorry for Jeremy Hunt, the Health Minister, he has just been made to appear a better face to keep pushing Andrew Lansley's reforms through for this PM.
It is sad the NHS is a political football but until it has all it needs to face whatever is thrown at it and secured so that future reforms are too complex and costly to make, it will be.

It needs a period of stability and more to the point continuity of policy.
Hopefully if Labour are the party leading the next govt; and Andy Burnham is a concensus politician,then with a new Conservative leader perhaps there can be an agreed programme for the NHS with full security on an agreed long term policy as to its future.

That will never happen with this PM and this Conservative govt; however.
They have to be removed,in my strong view, from having anything further to do with the NHS.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

The sad thing is I wish the NHS was not part of political wrangling,however once this not voted for top down re-organsiation of the NHS was done by Cameron,it has caused massive problems and dismay among NHS staff,

There are Doctors and even Nurses who support the Conservatives,the thread asks if the Conservatives are a threat to the NHS, my answer is the same, only yes this present conservative party and this conservative PM is.

It is true, Conservative PMs and govts; have up to Margaret Thatchers worked well for the NHS in the past, definitely not however this one.

There is a candidate standing in Jeremy Hunt's own seat for the National Health party who want the reforms repealed,so bad were they.

This PM and govt; just will not listen and rides through like a bulldozer the opinions of the the medical staff employed in the NHS.
Dismissing everything and acheiving nothing at all, because in my view he doesn't want to achieve anything, other than bring it to its knees to be snapped up by private organisations who will then be able to run it on a profit basis,not a 'care' basis.

This attempt to 'manipulate' a letter does not surprise me,they will try any trick at all.
I am glad this didn't succeed and hope it means another backlash for this PM and this govt;

I actually feel sorry for Jeremy Hunt, the Health Minister, he has just been made to appear a better face to keep pushing Andrew Lansley's reforms through for this PM.
It is sad the NHS is a political football but until it has all it needs to face whatever is thrown at it and secured so that future reforms are too complex and costly to make, it will be.

It needs a period of stability and more to the point continuity of policy.
Hopefully if Labour are the party leading the next govt; and Andy Burnham is a concensus politician,then with a new Conservative leader perhaps there can be an agreed programme for the NHS with full security on an agreed long term policy as to its future.

That will never happen with this PM and this Conservative govt; however.
They have to be removed,in my strong view, from having anything further to do with the NHS.

but labour reduced nhs funding in wales the tories increased it in england

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by the truth

but labour reduced nhs funding in wales the tories increased it in england

The didn't increase it,they ringfenced the original spending budget for the NHS set by the outgoing Labour govt; therefore accepting at that time that Labour was spending enough on the NHS.

They didn't protect that spending however fron inflation costs and also wasted a massive amount of money on a not voted for, unnecessary top down re-organisation of the NHS.

In real truth, with the rise in cost over the years of this govt; the NHS has had likely less than had it been protected as to taking into account the rising costs due to inflation too.

While you are right Labour has made a cut to NHS spending in Wales,you have to take into account this govt; has cut the funding to the Welsh assembly and since most things are already cut to the bone as to services in Wales, some hard decisons had to be made.

All the countries of the UK have some problems with the NHS,in my view,Wales needs more funding from this govt; it doesn't get anywhere near enough and the funding from central govt; has been cut way too much.
Instead of wasting costs on a top down re-organisation of the NHS, this govt; would have been better ensuring it had a reserve set up to cover problems in the NHS across the UK, after all this is still the 'UK' govt; overall.

Rather than wring its hands with glee at the problemswith the NHS in Wales,it should be helping the citizens of Wales by giving more funding to help sort out any problems.
However since they won't even do that in the English NHS that say just about everything about this govt; and the NHS.

Have some conflict in the middle east however and this govt; could find funds a plenty to put in to that as they did for Libya and would have done for Syria too.

[Livia]

"The Conservatives pledge an extra Ł8bn a year for the NHS in England by 2020". Looking forward to seeing how that little snippet of information is going to be handled on here.

[Livia]

Labour found substantial funds for Middle East conflicts too, joey. Labour took us there in the first place. It's a little unfair, I think, throwing that particular argument at this government.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Livia

Labour found substantial funds for Middle East conflicts too, joey. Labour took us there in the first place. It's a little unfair, I think, throwing that particular argument at this government.

True, but they did so before the 'global' banking/financial crisis and recession hit to be fair too.
I neither agreed with Iraq or Afghanistan anyway to be honest.

However,even when hitting the UK citizens with massive austerity measures, this govt; made almost unlimited funds available for the Libya exercise, and look at the state Libya is now in after the use of all those funds.

AS for this govt's; announcement today as to funding the NHS,this late into an election campaign with no plans to do so before until now, not even when the Chancellor presented his budget a few weeks ago.

I think since I have made it clear endlessly now,(probably to the point of boring everyone to death), I for one, don't believe a word David Cameron says as to the NHS, after his blatant lie as to the top down re-organisation,I think after the election,this increase would be downgraded or would not materialise at all.

I totally don't trust David Cameron as to the NHS, and he has shown he will lie about it to get elected before, so I no way will believe a word he says on it.
Not a chance from me,if I had power,I wouldn't let him or this cabinet he leads,near it ever again as to decisions as to its future.
So although very predictable my response to this likely will be seen,at least I am consistent.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

True, but they did so before the 'global' banking/financial crisis and recession hit to be fair too.
I neither agreed with Iraq or Afghanistan anyway to be honest.

However,even when hitting the UK citizens with massive austerity measures, this govt; made almost unlimited funds available for the Libya exercise, and look at the state Libya is now in after the use of all those funds.

AS for this govt's; announcement today as to funding the NHS,this late into an election campaign with no plans to do so before until now, not even when the Chancellor presented his budget a few weeks ago.

I think since I have made it clear endlessly now,(probably to the point of boring everyone to death), I for one, don't believe a word David Cameron says as to the NHS, after his blatant lie as to the top down re-organisation,I think after the election,this increase would be downgraded or would not materialise at all.

I totally don't trust David Cameron as to the NHS, and he has shown he will lie about it to get elected before, so I no way will believe a word he says on it.
Not a chance from me,if I had power,I wouldn't let him or this cabinet he leads,near it ever again as to decisions as to its future.
So although very predictable my response to this likely will be seen,at least I am consistent.

You most certainly are, and I wholeheartedly agree that this looks like a last ditch attempt and a soundbite rather than something that was planned and budgeted for within their policies, it's clearly been shoehorned in at the last minute.
Even the tales of his poor deceased son and their subsequent marital problems appear geared towards some last minute sympathy vote, I hate saying that but that's how it's coming across to me.