[the truth]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yep, imo, organised religions have always been a way to have power over and control the masses and make some money. I went through a phase of being completely fascinated by Scientology and i did a bit of reading up on it. The funniest thing I thought about the whole thing was that L Ron Hubbard was a science fiction writer and he'd apparently said before he'd started the religion that the best way to make money was to start a religion..........

complete and utter nonsense. Christ rebelled against the rich and told the masses to fight the power!

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by the truth

complete and utter nonsense. Christ rebelled against the rich and told the masses to fight the power!

Now I know we don't live in a Christian democracy then!

[bots]

Every day, even now we see information published that is uncorroborated. It sits there as information for future generations to reference and make of it what they will. Interspersed with this are corroborated facts validated from proven multiple sources.

Historically, we have no method of reliably identifying corroborated fact. Simpy because an event is recorded on multiple occasions and has some commonality with other recorded events doesn't make them corroborated fact. That is the crux of the problem we are faced with. So much information was passed down from generation to generation that it is impossible to say without a shadow of a doubt that the event now reported actually happened in the form and context that it is being reported in. That's not to say its not possible for an event 2000 years ago to be factually accurate, just by laws of probability, incredibly, incredibly unlikely.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Now I know we don't live in a Christian democracy then!

we live in a so called democracy in which the true words of Christ are often perverted by cheats and liars.....we should never blame Christ we should always blame the cheats and liars

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by the truth

complete and utter nonsense. Christ rebelled against the rich and told the masses to fight the power!

I'm talking about organised religions which are man made. I don't believe in Christ

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I'm talking about organised religions which are man made. I don't believe in Christ

youre talking in generalities about 100s of different religions, belief systems, stories, people, books etc That's a dangerous thing to do imo as theyre all vastly different , Im talking specifically about Christ.

[user104658]

I just follow the good old fashioned razor on this one really.

If there are 1000 different myths that conflict so that at least 999 of them must be false, then the simplest explanation is that all 1000 are false.

[Crimson Dynamo]

If we had a debate about the Loch Ness monster (just as viable as any faith based belief) I am sure it would go around the same lines.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

If we had a debate about the Loch Ness monster (just as viable as any faith based belief) I am sure it would go around the same lines.

This is simply not true LT and you know it. There is overwhelming evidence - a lot of it from secular sources - that Jesus of Nazareth was a real historical person, that he lived and died on the cross.

Where is there any proof that Nessie ever lived?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

This is simply not true LT and you know it. There is overwhelming evidence - a lot of it from secular sources - that Jesus of Nazareth was a real historical person, that he lived and died on the cross.

Where is there any proof that Nessie ever lived?

There were hundreds of Jesus's around that time. I am talking about evidence of supernatural powers

[user104658]

Does this mean that LT will never get his evidence of supernatural powers? I hate eternal cliffhangers! This is worse than "Angel", "The 4400" or "Stargate Universe". Or the new "Dallas". I wanted to know what happpened next but now I NEVER WILL. Unless someone makes a comic book sequel like with Angel but I tried to read that and it was stupid.

Tl;Dr - someone post a youtube of Jesus Magic!

[Kizzy]

Serious question, does anyone who follows a religion claim they can safely say they abide by the teachings of said religion?
If you had no idea that we lived in a Christian country could you tell by how we are governed?

I have yet to meet anyone with religious ideals who exhibits any of the virtues that a chosen faith extols.
Conversely I have met people who admit to not following a religion that are tolerant, fair, gracious, generous and kind.

It is this realisation that led me to my belief that our modern religions are fashioned by cherrypicking ancient texts across the globe, where the powers of many prophets can be used to instill both fear and wonder in those who choose to follow their professed teachings.

Therefore I have chosen to follow the 'little voice' conscience, instinct or gut feeling our own inherent internal rudder rather than a mish mash of contrary rules and provisos.
If this at the end of my days proves to be a big mistake I'll gladly admit I'm wrong until then I see no reason to change.

[Crimson Dynamo]

The supernatural stuff was added to get the followers and by getting the numbers you get power and status as being one of the ones in the know

look at any church today with those in the know, everyone trying to be the ministers pal etc

[the truth]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

The supernatural stuff was added to get the followers and by getting the numbers you get power and status as being one of the ones in the know

look at any church today with those in the know, everyone trying to be the ministers pal etc

supernatural stuff is the least important part imo, Christ's teachings are the real jewels than enrichen our lives

[the truth]

Originally Posted by the truth View Post
whether they were all literally miracles or symbollic allegories is a moot point..for once I was blind but now I can see is pretty open to interpretation etc . Regardless of how corrupt a minority of preachers are or how hypocritical some church goers are, the words of the original message are more important than the perversions of corrupt messengers...however its his teachings, the beliefs, the morals and values that surely are the most important lessons to be learned , understood and carried forward.

Sure but nice messages and beliefs coming from wonderful people aren't specific to religion or a God. It's the miracles and rising from the dead etc that essentially prove that Jesus was the son of God. Being a good and moral person isn't exclusive to religious people

[Crimson Dynamo]

the stuff jesus was saying is hardly rocket science and was prevalent in chinese and indian culture at that time. I think the Celts and the Picts had kind of worked out most of it before he was born.


http://www.imbas.org/articles/celtic_values.html

[the truth]

Christians don't threaten to kill people when Christ is questioned. that's all part of his pacificist teachings. the anti Christians here fail to even recognise that. perhaps theyd like a world where only politicians are left to write our values, beliefs, laws, morals, even the ten commandments for us.....

[user104658]

Kirk I'm just hypothesising - based on a now quite extensive history of your posts on topics regarding Christianity - that you would find some way or to attempt to debunk or disprove the claim. I don't think there is genuinely any evidence or argument that would sway you from Christianity.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Kirk I'm just hypothesising - based on a now quite extensive history of your posts on topics regarding Christianity - that you would find some way or to attempt to debunk or disprove the claim. I don't think there is genuinely any evidence or argument that would sway you from Christianity.

nor should there be, the value of Christs teachings are eternal and will always hold enormous value and have been of enormous benefit to human civilization.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by the truth

nor should there be, the value of Christs teachings are eternal and will always hold enormous value and have been of enormous benefit to human civilization.

Quite.

[GypsyGoth]

I hadn't heard about Mithra, that's pretty amazing. If something like that happened today, Christianity would be sued for plagiarism.

[Kizzy]

Poor old pigling bland

[Headie]

[Northern Monkey]

The Noah story is'nt just from the bible.Similar things have been written before.The Sumerians had a similar flood story.There are a few theories.There apparently was a flood in around 2900BC.More than likely a regional one though around Mesapotamia not an all life on earth destroying super flood.

[waterhog]

i think what ever storys are going round as long as good can come from it or people get strength its - and if i get struck down i will no god does not want no more poetry.