[Lostie!]

Originally Posted by Dollface

A child? I honestly couldn't answer that. Don't think I could live with myself if i was the reason a child lost it's life, but equally i couldn't live with myself if i'd let my dog die.

I'd trade the life of a human adult (that i don't personally know) though. I'm certainly not a liar so if that makes me a sociopath then i'd happily take that label

Drowning a dog is more likely to be sociopathic than loving one, let's be honest here.

And hypothetically prioritising a pet you love and care for over an adult human stranger isn't strange at all, I'd wager that the majority of pet owners would say the same. Well, the ones who truly care for their pets and class them as family, anyway.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Dollface

A child? I honestly couldn't answer that. Don't think I could live with myself if i was the reason a child lost it's life, but equally i couldn't live with myself if i'd let my dog die.

I'd trade the life of a human adult (that i don't personally know) though. I'm certainly not a liar so if that makes me a sociopath then i'd happily take that label

What happens when is does die as
normal life of the dog?

[Lostie!]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I love dogs but I have to be totally honest here and say that I think that people can be totally over the top with sentiment when it comes to pets. The man clearly has some sort of anger issues and snapped - and of course that shouldn't slide, it should be addressed - but I'm sorry, it doesn't make him a monster and it doesn't make his actions unfathomable. If the noise really was that incessant, and he was suffering from some other sort of stress at the time... People snap. They just do. And - to be blunt - a dog is not a human. It doesn't mean he would have or could have harmed a human. Most people are instinctively driven to not harm other humans for petty reasons like this but the same simply does not apply to an animal.

I'm not sure that I agree that he should be psychiatrically cleared so soon as like I said there is clearly some sort of control issue and he should be receiving mandatory treatment for that. But jail...? Not so sure it's appropriate.

Also - I'm going to come right out and say it - if the dog was Barking enough and for such a prolonged period of time that it drove someone to drown it, then it was being neglected by its owners. There's no two ways about it. And there isn't really any excuse for it either. Their beloved dog that made them feel so connected to their late daughter that they left it distressed and barking for hours on end? Hmmmmm OK then.

Some people (myself being one of them) are just very fond of and feel very affectionate towards animals, it's not really fair to brand that "over the top" just because you happen to not feel that way.

As for "a dog is not human", we're all very aware. How that makes drowning it any less reprehensible is beyond me.

[Benjamin]

There is nothing more annoying than a dog constantly barking, but that is still not a reason to kill it. But why was the dog constantly barking, clearly the owners were neglecting their "beloved" family pet to leave it outside to do that all day.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Benjamin

There is nothing more annoying than a dog constantly barking, but that is still not a reason to kill it. But why was the dog constantly barking, clearly the owners were neglecting their "beloved" family pet to leave it outside to do that all day.

Exactly. A dog left barking it's head off outside for long enough to drive someone to the point of snapping is a neglected dog, simple as that. My theory would be that the dog got sidelined when their daughter died, which is perhaps understandable, but it's also a part of the story that shouldn't really be overlooked.

So, whilstI feel awful for them for the loss of their daughter, I have limited sympathy for them when it comes to the loss of the dog. They didn't care for it properly and now it's gone. I do feel bad for the dog which really did nothing wrong. And tbh I feel sorry for the guy who momentarily (or otherwise) lost his mind. It's a sorry situation all round.

However. As much as I do love pets, it is just a dog and I maintain that people go over the top. People have more compassion for a drowned dog in a bucket than a thousand drowned human beings in the Mediterranean. Which is frankly ****ing terrifying.

[MTVN]

Do agree with a lot of what TS is saying (particularly in how people can get more emotional over a pet than a fellow human), but I do think it takes a certain sort of person to physically hold a dog's dead under water until it drowns and then make concerted efforts going to great lengths to cover his tracks. That takes it beyond a mere moment of madness imo. I'm not sure prison would be that inappropriate, he probably wouldn't be surrounded by violent criminals in a maximum security unit for something like this. But a few months in an open prison would be a fair sentence and might even do him some good.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Do agree with a lot of what TS is saying (particularly in how people can get more emotional over a pet than a fellow human), but I do think it takes a certain sort of person to physically hold a dog's dead under water until it drowns and then make concerted efforts going to great lengths to cover his tracks. That takes it beyond a mere moment of madness imo. I'm not sure prison would be that inappropriate, he probably wouldn't be surrounded by violent criminals in a maximum security unit for something like this. But a few months in an open prison would be a fair sentence and might even do him some good.

Acute transient psychotic episodes (colloquially, "rage blackouts") are actually more common than you would think under certain conditions and can be triggered specifically by things like repeated irritating noise, because the noise repeatedly interrupts normal thought process and doesn't give the mind time to rationalise. It's often compounded by things like drawn out periods of stress / lack of sleep, etc.

Not so common for them to result in something so drastically violent but it doesn't necessarily say anything at all about the "sort of person" involved.

As for the cover-up, I would call that entirely natural and actually psychologically positive. It means that in all likelihood he instantly realised what he had done and how awful it was, so set about covering it up. The truth is, the vast majority of people would do just that if they realised they had done something shameful like that. A lot of people would do it even if what had happened was an accident like hitting a pet with a car, even people who would insist before the fact "Oh I definitely wouldn't I would find the owners and tell them!". Guilt is a strange and unpredictable motivator.

It would be much MORE worrying if he had started bellowing over the fence at the house about what he had done, or simply left the dog there and gone on about his day. That would, for me, demonstrate that he didn't understand at all the gravity of his actions. He didn't do a very good job of covering it up at all, which suggests a panic after it was already done rather than any premeditated action.

I guess it sounds like I'm trying to make excuses... I'm not, I think he definitely needs help on some level. I just, as always, don't believe in "folks who are just plain evil" and think it's important to understand why things like this happen in the first place rather than simply wringing hands in the aftermath.

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Acute transient psychotic episodes (colloquially, "rage blackouts") are actually more common than you would think under certain conditions and can be triggered specifically by things like repeated irritating noise, because the noise repeatedly interrupts normal thought process and doesn't give the mind time to rationalise. It's often compounded by things like drawn out periods of stress / lack of sleep, etc.

Not so common for them to result in something so drastically violent but it doesn't necessarily say anything at all about the "sort of person" involved.

As for the cover-up, I would call that entirely natural and actually psychologically positive. It means that in all likelihood he instantly realised what he had done and how awful it was, so set about covering it up. The truth is, the vast majority of people would do just that if they realised they had done something shameful like that. A lot of people would do it even if what had happened was an accident like hitting a pet with a car, even people who would insist before the fact "Oh I definitely wouldn't I would find the owners and tell them!". Guilt is a strange and unpredictable motivator.

It would be much MORE worrying if he had started bellowing over the fence at the house about what he had done, or simply left the dog there and gone on about his day. That would, for me, demonstrate that he didn't understand at all the gravity of his actions. He didn't do a very good job of covering it up at all, which suggests a panic after it was already done rather than any premeditated action.

I guess it sounds like I'm trying to make excuses... I'm not, I think he definitely needs help on some level. I just, as always, don't believe in "folks who are just plain evil" and think it's important to understand why things like this happen in the first place rather than simply wringing hands in the aftermath.

I get what you are saying TS and as much as I don't agree, it makes some sense. However, I massively disagree with the sentiment that most people would have done the cover up part. Some MAY have put the body somwhere or hidden it etc but I cannot see MOST people digging around under the skin of a dog they have just killed to remove a microchip that may or may not have been there. The main reaction would surely be panic if the had a "black rage" and came to realising what they had done my be running to hide the body etc. His cover up is very calculated and as worrying as the act itself IMO

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

I get what you are saying TS and as much as I don't agree, it makes some sense. However, I massively disagree with the sentiment that most people would have done the cover up part. Some MAY have put the body somwhere or hidden it etc but I cannot see MOST people digging around under the skin of a dog they have just killed to remove a microchip that may or may not have been there. The main reaction would surely be panic if the had a "black rage" and came to realising what they had done my be running to hide the body etc. His cover up is very calculated and as worrying as the act itself IMO

I agree, it seems far from 'psychologically positive' to me

[Dollface]

I can't believe there are actually people making excuses for this disgusting man's actions, there is no excuse for taking a life, NO excuse.

Let me put it this way; if he was next door to a loud family who played music really loud all the time, would it be OK if he snapped and killed them?

[mizzy25]

I really didn't want to read this having 6 dogs of my own. I haven't read it properly. What I do know is that if and I say IF it was barking 24/7 then surely other people would hear it. Nothing but a horrid mad and I cant believe his pitiful sentence!!!!!
I had a letter once saying my dogs barked continuously throughout the day!! What a load of bull, today ive not been too well so Ive been in bed since 1.30pm and you wouldn't even know I had dogs not once single bark!!!!

[arista]

"for such a prolonged period of time that it drove someone to drown it, then it was being neglected by its owners."

Bang On Right TS

something Ammi ignored

[Dollface]

Originally Posted by arista

"for such a prolonged period of time that it drove someone to drown it, then it was being neglected by its owners."

Bang On Right TS

something Ammi ignored

Neglected or not, the dog was murdered and for some reason you think that's OK just because she apparently made a lot of noise. Disgusting.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by arista

"for such a prolonged period of time that it drove someone to drown it, then it was being neglected by its owners."

Bang On Right TS

something Ammi ignored

arista,there were other options,C'mon,really? I agree about the owners,but,to DROWN it and the cut it open to get the microchip out? that's somebody bloody calculated not stressed.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

arista,there were other options,C'mon,really? I agree about the owners,but,to DROWN it and the cut it open to get the microchip out? that's somebody bloody calculated not stressed.

If it was calculated they wouldn't have found it in his house. They would have never found it at all.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

arista,there were other options,C'mon,really? I agree about the owners,but,to DROWN it and the cut it open to get the microchip out? that's somebody bloody calculated not stressed.

Of Course


But a non stop barking dog
left to bark
made the next door man Snap.



Ammi
just told me it was for a Disabled Girl
as if that makes any change
to the dogs non stop barking

[Kazanne]

He should NOT be flying,WHO in their right mind would do such a terrible thing? what if there was to be a constantly crying baby on one of his flights? I'm sick of the "It's only a dog" attitude,a dog can be part of your family and does not understand some humans don't like them barking! bet he wouldn't have done it to a sturdy Rottweiler,bastard.

[Dollface]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

He should NOT be flying,WHO in their right mind would do such a terrible thing? what if there was to be a constantly crying baby on one of his flights? I'm sick of the "It's only a dog" attitude,a dog can be part of your family and does not understand some humans don't like them barking! bet he wouldn't have done it to a sturdy Rottweiler,bastard.

This.

[Tom4784]

He should have gotten a much longer sentence, it was obviously a well thought out killing and not an act of desperation given that he knew to cut out the micro chip. He sounds like a very disturbed individual and I hope he never flies again since if he'll butcher a small dog like it was nothing, what else is he capable of?

[Kizzy]

What's with all the bizarre hypotheticals? :/

This was just some bloke who as he stated in a moment of madness snapped and killed a dog then dug about in it's flesh for a chip so he could dispose of it without detection.

How anyone here feels about their pets is entirely irrelevant.

[Dollface]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

What's with all the bizarre hypotheticals? :/

This was just some bloke who as he stated in a moment of madness snapped and killed a dog then dug about in it's flesh for a chip so he could dispose of it without detection.

How anyone here feels about their pets is entirely irrelevant.

While i agree that the bizarre hypotheticals are unnecessary; the pets thing isn't entirely irrelevant, stories like this make people think about their pets.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Dollface

While i agree that the bizarre hypotheticals are unnecessary; the pets thing isn't entirely irrelevant, stories like this make people think about their pets.

Yes it makes me think of mine, but there's no reason to start comparing x and y to z is it?...
What he did was, not could not and will not ever be acceptable.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

What's with all the bizarre hypotheticals? :/

This was just some bloke who as he stated in a moment of madness snapped and killed a dog then dug about in it's flesh for a chip so he could dispose of it without detection.

How anyone here feels about their pets is entirely irrelevant.

It's entirely relevant when people are discussing what the appropriate action to be taken is. People are inflating the severity of the crime because they feel warm and fluffy about puppies.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It's entirely relevant when people are discussing what the appropriate action to be taken is. People are inflating the severity of the crime because they feel warm and fluffy about puppies.

No, your psycho babble about pets and stranger or strange pets and kids isn't relevant.
Of course people are going to react to this in an emotive way it's human nature.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

No, your psycho babble about pets and stranger or strange pets and kids isn't relevant.
Of course people are going to react to this in an emotive way it's human nature.

Yes just like the human and emotive way that people reacted to thousands of immigrants drowning in the med, or young students accidentally killing themselves with medication bought online or... oh no wait people are more upset about the dog.

Obviously.

We should probably just hang the guy who did it I guess. C'mon Dave, hurry up with that death legislation! Don't you realise that a puppy has been brutally murdered???


...meh. I can appreciate that I've been a bit all over the place in this thread, I guess, but I'm finding people's lack of any rational perspective quite bewildering. I always do when it comes to "poor puppy" cases.