[user104658]

Originally Posted by arista

A Frank Field plan
will modify this
On next monday

Yes, I did read that there have been suggestions that the HoL might try to block this or have it amended and even that there are several Tory MP's who aren't inclined to support reductions for those in work. Maybe some of them are semi-reasonable after all...

It is utter madness when you think about it. How can they really justify more sweeping cuts for those who are IN full time employment? What more can you really ask of people? It's not a question of not wanting to or not being bothered - as is the argument with those not working (not one that is often true, but still, there's some logic to it) - but someone already working full time hours isn't going to turn down the opportunity to be paid more for them. Having higher pay if you're already working full time is a question of education, experience, intelligence, ability and availability. No one is going to be able to jump into higher paid work over night and some people frankly just don't have the ability level to be paid much above the minimum wage and never will have. If those people are still up in the morning, out to work often hard full time hours... how can you justify taking more? Just, how? It makes no sense at all.

Surely it's more likely to make people just consider giving up. They come along saying "If you work hard then you will do well", then mere months later, "actually it doesn't matter if you work hard, your quality of life is still going to drop significantly. Sorry lol."

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Yes, I did read that there have been suggestions that the HoL might try to block this or have it amended and even that there are several Tory MP's who aren't inclined to support reductions for those in work. Maybe some of them are semi-reasonable after all...

It is utter madness when you think about it. How can they really justify more sweeping cuts for those who are IN full time employment? What more can you really ask of people? It's not a question of not wanting to or not being bothered - as is the argument with those not working (not one that is often true, but still, there's some logic to it) - but someone already working full time hours isn't going to turn down the opportunity to be paid more for them. Having higher pay if you're already working full time is a question of education, experience, intelligence, ability and availability. No one is going to be able to jump into higher paid work over night and some people frankly just don't have the ability level to be paid much above the minimum wage and never will have. If those people are still up in the morning, out to work often hard full time hours... how can you justify taking more? Just, how? It makes no sense at all.

Surely it's more likely to make people just consider giving up. They come along saying "If you work hard then you will do well", then mere months later, "actually it doesn't matter if you work hard, your quality of life is still going to drop significantly. Sorry lol."

A good many are TS,I know of a good number who would love Osborne to climb down on this but he and this hopeless PM won't listen.

The sad things is they are when outside their party decent people but they will not vote against their party even when they really believe it is wrong on an issue.

That is a real sad state as to politics.

[King Gizzard]

I do not, waterhog

[DemolitionRed]

And the latest is, Ian Drunken Smith blows £8.5M on fluffy animated monster as he slashes vital help for disabled people.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...m-6673199#ICID


That's enough to pay for 1,725 young people to get housing benefit for a year.
Or enough to remove 18,813 people from the bedroom tax for a year.
Or enough to let 448 disabled people live independently, instead of in a care home for a year.

[DemolitionRed]

Out of interest Livia, what are your views on the continued culling of legal aid? Do you believe we should all have access to the law?

[Livia]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Out of interest Livia, what are your views on the continued culling of legal aid? Do you believe we should all have access to the law?

I deplore it. I continually hear of people who are awarded legal aid despite having huge capital, property, business... and yet ordinary people on an ordinary wage don't seem to qualify. The law should be equally available to everyone, whether you have money or not.

I don't support everything the Tories do. I don't support everything any party does. In my opinion Legal Aid should be untouchable, and so should benefits for the disabled, the NHS, free Further and Higher Education and tax credits for working families.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Livia

I deplore it. I continually hear of people who are awarded legal aid despite having huge capital, property, business... and yet ordinary people on an ordinary wage don't seem to qualify. The law should be equally available to everyone, whether you have money or not.

I don't support everything the Tories do. I don't support everything any party does. In my opinion Legal Aid should be untouchable, and so should benefits for the disabled, the NHS, free Further and Higher Education and tax credits for working families.

[GiRTh]

Theres gona be a lot of conservative leaning young families that will be hit hard by these proposals so I'm all for it. Anything to curb Tories popularity.

[Kizzy]

Great post TS funny how a thread on working people being lied to by the govt has been manipulated to be about the 'feckless' unemployed.
Not considering the fortnightly meetings, the daily job searches, the 13 week review, 26 week review and the work programme.
Here is some information on that.
https://www.gov.uk/government/public...icy-employment

[the truth]

the 15 hour trap though has encouraged people not to work for fear of losing their benefits, it was a system that simply wasn't thought through

[Kizzy]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34572807

Youtube video

[GiRTh]

Just as expected, working mums will get shafted by these new cuts. Do the Tories realise Working mums tend to vote? A bold step by the Tories that should bounce back very nicely to bite them in the ass.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

Just as expected, workng mums will get shafted by these new cuts. Do the Tories realise Working mums tend to vote? A bold step by the Tories that should bounce back very nicely to bite them in the ass.

We can hope for that.

Sadly however, meantime people suffer from having entitlements put in place for them being taken away from them.

Absolute disgrace.

[Kizzy]

I've said it before and I truly believe they don't care if they are elected next time... they will have bled the country dry and sold anything of any value off by then.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I've said it before and I truly believe they don't care if they are elected next time... they will have bled the country dry and sold anything of any value off by then.

David Cameron doesn't care for sure, because he is off before the 2020 election.
No matter what he does in the next few years, the voters are not getting the chance to kick him out in an election.

At least even being a desperate situation politically John Major still faced the electorate.

[GiRTh]

I'm suprised by the graph in the link Kizzy provided that shows only the richest will benefit from these cuts. Everyone else pretty much gets shafted. This feels like Thatchers is back.

Surely the Tories realsie they cant do this. This is polictical suicide that should cost them the next election. Particularily when you got the left leaning Corbyn who will be proposing to help all the people who have been hit by these cuts.

There may be many constituents focussed on topics like immigration but when you start taking money out of people pockets then all other issues dont count.

[Kizzy]

Thatcher looks like a saint next to this lot :/

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Thatcher looks like a saint next to this lot :/

If they implement this then they are worse than Thatcher.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Thatcher looks like a saint next to this lot :/

Laughs, that's exactly what I was going to say Kizzy!

[user104658]

It seems that part of the Scotland deal going through will include the power to "top up" tax credits north of the border. Good news for families in Scotland but also yet another potential source of division and resentment when less well off families in England are struggling just as much. Often more because of things that are already in place such as free prescriptions and of course the big one, University tuition fees.

[the truth]

with respect youre all missing a key point......the minimum wage will not be affordable , a living wage isn't even enforceable, in most areas of Britain for the lowest skilled jobs.
that means thousands of job cuts. how can a small business employing 30 people suddenly afford to pay an extra 25% in wages? in deprived areas? where does this 25% come from? thin air? it wont happen, it cant happen, people will be sacked
meanwhile the number of people arriving on our shores will increase even further when the minimum wage is the highest in Europe and higher than many countries pay their highly skilled workers.....all of which sees more immigration allied to these tens of thousands of job losses in poorest areas because of the unrealistic unaffordable minimum wage rises.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by the truth

with respect youre all missing a key point......the minimum wage will not be affordable , a living wage isn't even enforceable, in most areas of Britain for the lowest skilled jobs.
that means thousands of job cuts. how can a small business employing 30 people suddenly afford to pay an extra 25% in wages? in deprived areas? where does this 25% come from? thin air? it wont happen, it cant happen, people will be sacked
meanwhile the number of people arriving on our shores will increase even further when the minimum wage is the highest in Europe and higher than many countries pay their highly skilled workers.....all of which sees more immigration allied to these tens of thousands of job losses in poorest areas because of the unrealistic unaffordable minimum wage rises.

Tax relief for employers will offset it won't it?

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Tax relief for employers will offset it won't it?

eh? offset a 25% wage bill increase? this is utter madness, its what I call politically correct business, where all basic economics and simple truths are banned from public debate. yes lets all pay the poorest £20 an hour minimum wage were nice people etc its drivel

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by the truth

eh? offset a 25% wage bill increase? this is utter madness, its what I call politically correct business, where all basic economics and simple truths are banned from public debate. yes lets all pay the poorest £20 an hour minimum wage were nice people etc its drivel

£20ph?.... that's not happening, I meant the cut in corporation tax.

Corporation tax and the new National Living Wage were the main talking points from the July Budget for businesses of all sizes but the implications for small firms aren't straightforward.
George Osborne, the Chancellor, announced that the rate of corporation tax would fall to 19pc in 2017 and 18pc in 2020, the lowest in the G20. For start-ups and many UK small firms, which only generate a marginal profit, this is unlikely to have a big impact.
The National Living Wage was the "rabbit in the hat" moment of the address. As of April 2016, the Government is introducing a new minimum wage of £7.20, which will rise to £9 by 2020.
Small firms or businesses employing a significant number of staff on the minimum wage are likely to feel this change most keenly, although there are some new measures from the Government to reduce the impact on the most vulnerable businesses.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/b...usinesses.html

[the truth]

the implications are simple for small business, they are knackered and will have to lose tens of thousands of employees. ruining our small shops, town centres even moreso and enslaving us even more to massive corporations