[bots]

I think if Trump ends up being president - and he may well do ... it is America, he will be assassinated within days of taking office

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

I think if Trump ends up being president - and he may well do ... it is America, he will be assassinated within days of taking office

Scary thought

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

I think if Trump ends up being president - and he may well do ... it is America, he will be assassinated within days of taking office

oh please, they said the same thing about Obama being elected. CERTAINLY America being the horrible racist country it is, someone will assassinate Obama... yet here we are 7 years later.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

There are a few places in the UK I would consider no go areas but none of them are Muslim. There's a lot of sink estates in England, especially London and Birmingham, that have Pakistanis, Bangladeshi and Afro-Caribbean communities. If you want to rant on about how us Brits have opened this country for all these immigrants, then you can't just speak about Muslims, you have to include Orthodox Jews, Hindus and the Afro Caribbean who use all sorts of feral Christian religions.

Blaming ghetto situations on one specific religion is yet another 'bait and switch' Kirk. Sink estates and no go areas are not a religious issue, rather one of general poverty and alienation...and if you want to moan about all these bloody immigrants and how 'we' the Brits have welcomed these unappreciative people with open arms, lets at least include all ethnic minorities and not just the ones you don't like.

Oh and please don't tell me Orthodox Jews, Hindus and AC's don't form their own large communities...but then, why shouldn't they?. If they want to keep themselves to themselves what's the problem. I lived in Hackney for a while and not once did I get to have a conversation with an Orthodox Jew. I didn't leave Hackney resentfully believing Orthodox Jews were intolerant of people outside their faith, I just accepted they rarely mix and that's the way it is.

There's a difference between forming large communities and expecting the existing communities to make exceptions for you.

Try walking round Whitechapel in a short skirt, or with a cigarette in your hand and I guarantee you will be approached and castigated about your attire or the fact you're smoking and don't have a penis. And then try walking round Stamford Hill (or indeed Hackney) in the same outfit and watch the Orthodox Jews ignore you. That's the difference. We make exceptions for Muslims that we never make for other religions. I've never heard anyone worry about upsetting the Hindus because the Hindus don't expect us to change our national identity to fit in with them.

[kirklancaster]

There ARE Muslim 'No Go' areas throughout the UK - I have been there and so have others on here, if any have the courage to stand up against the usual over-heated backlash every time some do speak the truth.

"There's a lot of sink estates in England, especially London and Birmingham, that have Pakistanis, Bangladeshi and Afro-Caribbean communities."

I am NOT disputing what you say above about other 'ethnic' ghettos but my post was confined to 'Muslims' because this thread is specifically about Muslims and the comments to which I referred and responded to were made by posters on this thread specifically about Muslims.

"If you want to rant on about how us Brits have opened this country for all these immigrants, then you can't just speak about Muslims, you have to include Orthodox Jews, Hindus and the Afro Caribbean who use all sorts of feral Christian religions."


My post was NOT a rant unlike your response here. You are the one doing the ranting Red, and again, my post was confined to 'Muslims' because this thread is specifically about Muslims and the comments to which I referred and responded to were made by posters on this thread specifically about Muslims. If you want to discuss other 'ethnic' ghetto's please start a new thread and I will gladly contribute.

"Blaming ghetto situations on one specific religion is yet another 'bait and switch' Kirk. Sink estates and no go areas are not a religious issue, rather one of general poverty and alienation..."

I am NOT "Blaming ghetto situations on one specific religion" - that is clearly NOT what I said - I am saying that SOME Muslim immigrants freely ELECT to insulate themselves from the rest of mainstream Britain, and CHOOSE to create their own 'ghettos', and OPT not to integrate and accept our way of life, our laws and traditions, and if you KNOW differently, then you are living in la la land. '

"...and if you want to moan about all these bloody immigrants and how 'we' the Brits have welcomed these unappreciative people with open arms, lets at least include all ethnic minorities and not just the ones you don't like. "

Now this is totally unacceptable. Do not presume to know me and know what or who I "don't like". You do not know me. You do not know my likes and dislikes.

You are totally - and clearly - wrong in stating this last on so many counts:

a) I have already stated WHY I did not include any other 'ethnic minorities' (a misnomer if ever there was one where certain parts of the UK are concerned) and my explanation is both logical and true - Do we start discussing apples, pears and bananas on a thread which is specifically discussing oranges?

b) "Moaning about bloody immigrants" is NOT what I was doing - I was moaning about certain people forever using certain cliched terms when talking about Muslims; "I am sick to ******* death of hearing phrases such as 'Alienating' and 'segregating' and 'ostracising' when it comes to immigrants, especially Muslims" - is EXACTLY what I said. It's there in my post for you to check.

I was merely STATING FACTS about some Muslims - and that truth seems to have so illogically enraged you that you misrepresent what I actually said and caused you to respond with this ilogical 'rant'.

"Oh and please don't tell me Orthodox Jews, Hindus and AC's don't form their own large communities...but then, why shouldn't they?. If they want to keep themselves to themselves what's the problem."

And??? What is your point? And what has it to do with my post?

"I lived in Hackney for a while and not once did I get to have a conversation with an Orthodox Jew. I didn't leave Hackney resentfully believing Orthodox Jews were intolerant of people outside their faith, I just accepted they rarely mix and that's the way it is."

Good for you. I have lived in Islington for a time and Minehead and Scarborough and Manchester for a time - among other locations - and I have made lots of friends with Orthodox Jews as well as Non-Orthodox Jews, and even dated a couple of Jewish girls in my youth. What have Jews in particular got to do with my post which was specifically on Muslims for the reasons I stated?

Or is this just more 'back-door' tactics of mildly slating Judaism because you perceive from my posts that I am 'Jew Friendly'? You know, the way you did with Christianity because I am a Christian when you needlessly wrote: "and the Afro Caribbean who use all sorts of feral Christian religions."?

I was not slating all Muslims - neither the religion nor the people - but stating a plain fact about SOME which I KNOW of from my own direct experience, so your over-reaction is really uncalled for.

Incidentally, the way that certain posts on here ALWAYS attract applause emoticons from certain members REGARDLESS of any truth or merit or lack of them, in the post, is both predictable AND laughable.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

There's a difference between forming large communities and expecting the existing communities to make exceptions for you.

Try walking round Whitechapel in a short skirt, or with a cigarette in your hand and I guarantee you will be approached and castigated about your attire or the fact you're smoking and don't have a penis. And then try walking round Stamford Hill (or indeed Hackney) in the same outfit and watch the Orthodox Jews ignore you. That's the difference. We make exceptions for Muslims that we never make for other religions. I've never heard anyone worry about upsetting the Hindus because the Hindus don't expect us to change our national identity to fit in with them.

Where is this? I regularly use Bradford city centre which has a large Muslim community, I have never seen a woman approached for the way they are dressed or because they smoke, that's a massive generalisation there.

[bots]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Where is this? I regularly use Bradford city centre which has a large Muslim community, I have never seen a woman approached for the way they are dressed or because they smoke, that's a massive generalisation there.

It does happen though Kizzy, I have seen it in my travels. Other religious groups don't tend to be quite so aggressively proactive in their opposition. For me, that is the key difference.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Where is this? I regularly use Bradford city centre which has a large Muslim community, I have never seen a woman approached for the way they are dressed or because they smoke, that's a massive generalisation there.

Oh... so your wild generalisation yesterday was acceptable because it was your opinion. Whereas mine is just a common or garden generalisation? LOL... you crack me up.

Sharia patrols operate in Whitechapel. London. It's been covered often in the press. I'm surprised you've missed it frankly.

[Kizzy]

'I was not slating all Muslims - neither the religion nor the people - but stating a plain fact about SOME which I KNOW of from my own direct experience, so your over-reaction is really uncalled for.

Incidentally, the way that certain posts on here ALWAYS attract applause emoticons from certain members REGARDLESS of any truth or merit or lack of them, in the post, is both predictable AND laughable.'

As is Red and myself, what makes your opinion and experience any more valid than ours?... It doesn't therefore your constant challenges and defamation of our perspective is disingenuous.

I agreed with RD and I used an applause emoticon if this is directed at me I feel that is both rude and unfair, I do agree with the comments made and it is not for you to judge her experiences. The applause emoticon is used regularly by yourself too as I recall therefore I find your comment a tad hypocritical.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

Oh... so your wild generalisation yesterday was acceptable because it was your opinion. Whereas mine is just a common or garden generalisation? LOL... you crack me up.

Sharia patrols operate in Whitechapel. London. It's been covered often in the press. I'm surprised you've missed it frankly.

And that report is concrete evidence of your accusation against all Muslims?
It's a generalisation.

[Tom4784]

After looking into these Sharia patrols, I've not found much outside of incidents in 2013-14 which were dealt with by the police and condemned by the Muslim community. I've not been able to find any reports of recent patrols that weren't recycled propaganda from wannabe Britain First websites.

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

After looking into these Sharia patrols, I've not found much outside of incidents in 2013-14 which were dealt with by the police and condemned by the Muslim community. I've not been able to find any reports of recent patrols that weren't recycled propaganda from wannabe Britain First websites.

This. One of the only things I can find is that the patrols have been broken up and the members prosecuted.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/459...Anjem-Choudary

[Cherie]

I regularly travel to Whitechapel for meetings and have done for 15 years never had an issue and never felt intimidated

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

It does happen though Kizzy, I have seen it in my travels. Other religious groups don't tend to be quite so aggressively proactive in their opposition. For me, that is the key difference.

Really, never been to Ireland then?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Really, never been to Ireland then?

Eh?

[Kizzy]

Patrols in Whitechapel?

Members of the nationalist group Britain First drove an armoured van to the East London Mosque on January 16 before handing out anti-Muslim leaflets in Brick Lane.

A similar “patrol” took place in the same area a year ago in response to so-called “Muslim Patrols” that resulted in Islamists being jailed for abusing the public.

On that occasion the group said it hoped to “bait” Muslims with alcohol and cigarettes in order to provoke trouble.

Police were alerted about the so-called Christian patrols and spoke to members of the group, but said no crimes were committed and no arrests made.

They added police presence had already been beefed up in Brick Lane for the area’s busy nightlife.

Rushanara Ali, MP for Bethnal Green and Bow, said there was no place for the “divisive” patrols in the East End.

http://www.eastlondonadvertiser.co.u...lims_1_3925512

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Eh?

Sorry shouldn't have put it like that, I was just alluding to past sectarian violence as a response to BOTS point.

[MB.]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

There ARE Muslim 'No Go' areas throughout the UK - I have been there.

Well that's already a contradiction

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Sorry shouldn't have put it like that, I was just alluding to past sectarian violence as a response to BOTS point.

mmm well, tbf I don't think the troubles in the North can be put down to a religious thing like this conversation. The troubles in the North were about Britain splitting a country in two and the Irish section wanting to be Irish and the British section wanting to be British, neither were trying to convert anyone or force their religious beliefs on people, it just so happened that most "Irish" people in North happened to be Catholic and most "British" people in Northern Ireland happened to be Protestant

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by MB.

Well that's already a contradiction

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

mmm well, tbf I don't think the troubles in the North can be put down to a religious thing like this conversation. The troubles in the North were about Britain splitting a country in two and the Irish section wanting to be Irish and the British section wanting to be British, neither were trying to convert anyone or force their religious beliefs on people, it just so happened that most "Irish" people in North happened to be Catholic and most "British" people in Northern Ireland happened to be Protestant

From an Irish perspective that's true, yet from an English perspective the troubles seemed very religion based which is why I used Ireland as a response to this,

'Other religious groups don't tend to be quite so aggressively proactive in their opposition.'

It seemed that they very much did back then.
I suppose historically it was more religion based than it is today.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by MB.

Well that's already a contradiction

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

From an Irish perspective that's true, yet from an English perspective the troubles seemed very religion based which is why I used Ireland as a response to this,

'Other religious groups don't tend to be quite so aggressively proactive in their opposition.'

It seemed that they very much did back then.
I suppose historically it was more religion based than it is today.

But it wasn't at all though, our country was torn in two, that's what it was about. The IRA had Protestant members too. It was completely about some of the people from Northern Ireland wanting Ireland to be united and some (mainly Protestant because they probably originally came over from Britain) wanting to be British. It's bizarre to me that English people think it was a Religious war, Hello you invaded our country and split it in two........that's what it's about

[bots]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Really, never been to Ireland then?

If you need to stretch to Ireland to find a comparison, I think it shows the validity of my statement tbh

[Johnnyuk123]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Where is this? I regularly use Bradford city centre which has a large Muslim community, I have never seen a woman approached for the way they are dressed or because they smoke, that's a massive generalisation there.

It has happened in Luton Kizzy.

Youtube video