[Livia]

Originally Posted by Ninastar

im up for joining whoever hates the jews the most

I'm watching you, Missy......

[Ninastar]

(im joking Livia.... i love you really)

[MTVN]

There has been a problem with the left and anti-semitism for a long time I think. It's different from the far-right - they hate Jews because of mad conspiracies about them controlling money and governments and the like - on the left the issue derives from their 'solidarity' with groups like Hamas and Hezbollah and their hatred for Israel. It is they who confuse anti-zionism with anti-semitism, not their critics.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by MTVN

There has been a problem with the left and anti-semitism for a long time I think. It's different from the far-right - they hate Jews because of mad conspiracies about them controlling money and governments and the like - on the left the issue derives from their 'solidarity' with groups like Hamas and Hezbollah and their hatred for Israel. It is they who confuse anti-zionism with anti-semitism, not their critics.

Not saying your right, but you say that like it's somehow more acceptable to hate Jewish people due to to conspiracy theories.
If both sides 'hate' the Jews then are not both sides equally unjustified?

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Not saying your right, but you say that like it's somehow more acceptable to hate Jewish people due to to conspiracy theories.
If both sides 'hate' the Jews then are not both sides equally unjustified?

Well I didn't intend to imply that, if anything I think I was saying the other way round that the right's anti-semitism is more unhinged, not that that makes it 'worse' exactly

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by MTVN

There has been a problem with the left and anti-semitism for a long time I think. It's different from the far-right - they hate Jews because of mad conspiracies about them controlling money and governments and the like - on the left the issue derives from their 'solidarity' with groups like Hamas and Hezbollah and their hatred for Israel. It is they who confuse anti-zionism with anti-semitism, not their critics.

There are plenty of left leaning conspiracy theorists but they don't stoop as low as suggesting the holocaust never happened.

Left leaning people tend to be more atheist than right leaning people and therefore, don't look at the religion but at the troubles and the person/people involved. Most left wing people believe that everybody has a right to live on that land in safety and security and therefore "Jew" and "Israel" and "Muslims and "Palestine" are not the same thing. It would be ignorant to assume otherwise.

Right leaning Protestant Christians embrace Israel because it is the landing zone for "The second coming" and they want to be sure that zone is under Western authority when Jesus comes back to spirit them off.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Right leaning Protestant Christians embrace Israel because it is the landing zone for "The second coming" and they want to be sure that zone is under Western authority when Jesus comes back to spirit them off.

What I find hilarious is, if Jesus was real and really could do magic tricks and stuff, and he did return... no one would actually believe it . Everyone's a skeptic these days.

He would be like "I have returned! Behold my miracles!"

And the people who were there would be like "lol yeah right I bet I know how he did it. My mate John said he could even see the strings pmsl"

And the people seeing pictures and videos from home would be like "Haha yeah OK. Photoshop / green-screen. Fake."

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

What I find hilarious is, if Jesus was real and really could do magic tricks and stuff, and he did return... no one would actually believe it . Everyone's a skeptic these days.

He would be like "I have returned! Behold my miracles!"

And the people who were there would be like "lol yeah right I bet I know how he did it. My mate John said he could even see the strings pmsl"

And the people seeing pictures and videos from home would be like "Haha yeah OK. Photoshop / green-screen. Fake."

The Jews would certainly have a good laugh because they don't believe in the 2nd coming but in the mean time, they're happy to get political support

[user104658]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

The Jews would certainly have a good laugh because they don't believe in the 2nd coming but in the mean time, they're happy to get political support

It could all get really confusing if the J-man does turn up, couldn't it? The Jews would be like "He's finally here!", and the Christians be like "He's back!". What a pickle.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by MTVN

There has been a problem with the left and anti-semitism for a long time I think. It's different from the far-right - they hate Jews because of mad conspiracies about them controlling money and governments and the like - on the left the issue derives from their 'solidarity' with groups like Hamas and Hezbollah and their hatred for Israel. It is they who confuse anti-zionism with anti-semitism, not their critics.

So true. You have it in one Matt.

[DemolitionRed]

I try not to get overly involved in debates about Gaza because I'm married to a none practising Jew and according to him and his family, I am Jewish because my ancestral maternal line is Jewish, though not since the early nineteen hundreds.

Anti-semitism and not liking Bibi's oppressive government are not the same thing.

[Kizzy]

Could anti war be confused with anti-semitism at times though to further an agenda?

[bots]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Could anti war be confused with anti-semitism at times though to further an agenda?

not when it manifests as anti semitism

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

not when it manifests as anti semitism

How could that happen?
If you are anti war then you are against the ideology of war, ( all war) not religious belief.
The only way that could be misconstrued is if it was spun intentionally to do so.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

not when it manifests as anti semitism

Exactly. Howard Jacobson always talks a lot of sense about it:

Alone of prejudices, anti-Zionism is sacrosanct. How very dare we distinguish the motivation of one sort from another? Or question, in any instance, an anti-Zionist’s good faith? In fact, what determines whether anti-Zionism is anti-Semitic is the nature of it. Question Israel’s conduct of recent wars and you won’t find many Jews, in Israel or outside it, who disagree with you. Join Hamas in calling for the destruction of the Jewish state, as the prime instigator of all evil, and you’re on shakier ground.

In an apparent softening of party tone, Corbyn’s warm-up man, the journalist Owen Jones, recently reprimanded the Left for its ingrained anti-Semitism. Welcome words, but they will remain only words so long as the Corbynite Left – and indeed the not-so Corbynite Left – refuses to acknowledge the degree to which anti-Semitism is snarled up in the before and after of Israelophobia. The Stop The War Coalition is a sort of home to Jew-haters because its hate music about Israel is so catchy. It simplifies a complex and heartbreaking conflict, it elides causes and effects, it perpetuates a fable that flatters one side and demonises another, it ignores all instances of intransigence and cruelty but one, inflaming hatred and enabling the very racism it declares itself opposed to.

Let’s forget whether or not anti-Semitism is the root of this. It is sufficient that it is the consequence.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...-10487318.html

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Could anti war be confused with anti-semitism at times though to further an agenda?

Of course, accusations of anti-semitism will be used to try to shut down all sorts of discussions, on the assumption that people will be "too scared to go there".

[Ninastar]

TBH if I'm gonna be really stereotypical or w.e the right phrase is, I think the Left is more 'All religion is bad apart from Muslims!!!!!!!!' where as the right is more 'All Religion is great apart from Muslims!!!!'

[Kizzy]

'Let’s forget whether or not anti-Semitism is the root of this. It is sufficient that it is the consequence.'

This is in itself a nonsensical statement.
In essence it means no matter your ideology should someone either intentionally or unintentionally misinterpret it, it's your fault.

[waterhog]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2...ism-so-common/

Now, I'm not the kind of person who likes to make generalisations on those who side politically left or right (though some of you may disagree with my self-analysis), and it is no secret that I lean towards the left.. however I thought I would share this article because it provoked thought and I found it interesting.

This paragraph in particular changed my thoughts slightly too:

My personal view on why anti-semitism may have a slight boost on the left compared to previously, is the fact that the whole 'Israel vs Palestine' scenario has left people to hate Israelis - which they associate with being Jewish - and therefore hating Jews. This is ridiculous because there are even jewish people who believe the israeli government are breaking human rights laws. That is however where I believe the hatred & ignorance comes from, although it is thankfully a minority opinion by far.

Interested to hear others' opinions on this because I found it interesting and hopefully you guys will too

very interesting post but a song springs to mind to help me explain - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpWmlRNfLck

[lostalex]

what i will say about the idea of a power imbalance in the middle east, when people on the left specifically like to say that Jews and Israel have the scales tipped in their favor because of support from the USA and other western countries...i would say that the Palestinians should have the same support from their supposed Arab friends, so why isn't there the same support from huge rich muslim countries like Saudi, and UAE, or even Indonesia, why do the other arab/muslim countries leave Palestine high and dry?

There must be a reason. instead they just use it as an issue to bash the USA, but they don't actually provide any actual support to the Palestinian people. why??

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by lostalex

what i will say about the idea of a power imbalance in the middle east, when people on the left specifically like to say that Jews and Israel have the scales tipped in their favor because of support from the USA and other western countries...i would say that the Palestinians should have the same support from their supposed Arab friends, so why isn't there the same support from huge rich muslim countries like Saudi, and UAE, or even Indonesia, why do the other arab/muslim countries leave Palestine high and dry?

There must be a reason. instead they just use it as an issue to bash the USA, but they don't actually provide any actual support to the Palestinian people. why??

Another insightful post Alex.