[DemolitionRed]

But Y.Winter is an Israeli and you are Jewish Livia and so you are bound to have a bias.

Can you see both the Jewish and the Arab side to this story?

I'm not a Jew or a Muslim; in fact I think all religeon is a nonsense so this is how I view the Israli army.... For too long, in fact since 29th November 1947 the day that the United Nations accepted the resolution to patrician Palestine to a Jewish state and an Arab state; the Isralis along with help from the West are responsible for massive ethnic cleansing.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

But Y.Winter is an Israeli and you are Jewish Livia and so you are bound to have a bias.

Can you see both the Jewish and the Arab side to this story?

I'm not a Jew or a Muslim; in fact I think all religeon is a nonsense so this is how I view the Israli army.... For too long, in fact since 29th November 1947 the day that the United Nations accepted the resolution to patrician Palestine to a Jewish state and an Arab state; the Isralis along with help from the West are responsible for massive ethnic cleansing.

I am Jewish, and I work in Israel a lot. yes I have a certain amount of bias, but mostly because I know the truth of what goes on there, in Israel and in Palestine. You've asked me before if I've seen it from the Palestinian side and the answer is still yes.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

B............For too long, in fact since 29th November 1947 the day that the United Nations accepted the resolution to patrician Palestine to a Jewish state and an Arab state; the Isralis along with help from the West are responsible for massive ethnic cleansing.

Israel didn't just happen in 1947. The thought of going home to Israel was what kept some people alive during the Holocaust and it makes me laugh to think people imagine that Jews wouldn't have gone to Israel if it wasn't for the Mandate. Jews were always going to return to Israel.

But anyway, that isn't what this is about.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

Israel didn't just happen in 1947. The thought of going home to Israel was what kept some people alive during the Holocaust and it makes me laugh to think people imagine that Jews wouldn't have gone to Israel if it wasn't for the Mandate. Jews were always going to return to Israel.

But anyway, that isn't what this is about.

But that was a different generation, should they not just get over it?

If they had have gone back to usurp those living there without a mandate it wold have just been genocide.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

If they had have gone back to usurp those living there without a mandate it would have just been genocide.

If they had gone back to usurp those living there without the support of other major Western powers, they wouldn't have gotten a foot in the door .

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

But that was a different generation, should they not just get over it?

If they had have gone back to usurp those living there without a mandate it wold have just been genocide.

I wondered how long it would take you to drop into and "Israel" thread and quote one of my posts.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Livia

Israel didn't just happen in 1947. The thought of going home to Israel was what kept some people alive during the Holocaust and it makes me laugh to think people imagine that Jews wouldn't have gone to Israel if it wasn't for the Mandate. Jews were always going to return to Israel.

But anyway, that isn't what this is about.

Why not? its all to do with this.

I'm well aware that conflicts have gone on for thousands of years but I'm also aware of the day that the United Nations accepted the resolution to patrician Palestine to a Jewish state and an Arab state was the cause of what we are witnessing today. It was such a ridiculous resolution because the UN decided to give the biggest portion of land to the smaller community (The Jews) and the smaller portion of land to the larger community (The Arabs) and then the West said and are still saying, “It’s the Arabs fault because they didn’t accept the partition plan”.

You say that the Jewish people wanted to go home but it was to a home they had never been to in a land they weren't born in and this was all based on their religeous belief. If we talk about the right of return then it has to work both ways, meaning it has to work for Palestinains as well as Israellis but instead the Palestiniains had their keys removed and their houses turned to rubble, whilst we, the West cheered on.

[Crimson Dynamo]

the terrorist tried to stab his colleague and so was terminated. Time to pardon the soldier and move on.

[y.winter]

Yes, I had full disclosure at the end of my post. I might be biased, yet I'm far more knowledgeable when it comes to this issue probably more than someone from the UK (vice versa you, British current affairs and I).
Not qualifying a dangerous men with a knife going in for the kill and stabbing as a terrorist just because the BBC said so - I find it disturbing not less than my biased opinion.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by y.winter

Yes, I had full disclosure at the end of my post. I might be biased, yet I'm far more knowledgeable when it comes to this issue probably more than someone from the UK (vice versa you, British current affairs and I).
Not qualifying a dangerous men with a knife going in for the kill and stabbing as a terrorist just because the BBC said so - I find it disturbing not less than my biased opinion.

Thats the crux of it though. All i have to go on is a video and the reporting by all news channels..none of which deacribed the original attacker as a terrorist..he could have had mental issues for all i know. So i can only use the sources at hand and describe the assailant as those sources describe him.

I do emphasise with people and how it obvioisly is an issue closer to their hearts than mine, but i can only comment on what i see and in my opinion what i saw was a cold blooded murder.

[y.winter]

Originally Posted by parmnion

All i have to go on is a video and the reporting by all news channels..none of which deacribed the original attacker as a terrorist..he could have had mental issues for all i know. So i can only use the sources at hand and describe the assailant as those sources describe him.

And that's why seeing the full picture is crucial. Do a research. There are facts out there and they are more than "Israeli soldier killed a Palestinian man".
I say things that I know and live on daily basis and I'm not on auto-bias mode.

Not long ago (2016 in fact) we had a couple of crazy months where every day a Palestinian took a knife and stabbed people on the streets, on the bus, on the train station, in a bar, breaking into their houses and slaughtering entire families while they were asleep. Just like this.
So it doesn't come to us as a surprise when a Palestinian and a knife make it to the headlines. Sorry to burst the bubble, mental issues weren't part of it.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by y.winter

And that's why seeing the full picture is crucial. Do a research. There are facts out there and they are more than "Israeli soldier killed a Palestinian man".
I say things that I know and live on daily basis and I'm not on auto-bias mode.

Not long ago (2016 in fact) we had a couple of crazy months where every day a Palestinian took a knife and stabbed people on the streets, on the bus, on the train station, in a bar, breaking into their houses and slaughtering entire families while they were asleep. Just like this.
So it doesn't come to us as a surprise when a Palestinian and a knife make it to the headlines. Sorry to burst the bubble, mental issues weren't part of it.

and i have posted videos of such attacks on here and Livia has discussed them too

[Beso]

Originally Posted by y.winter

And that's why seeing the full picture is crucial. Do a research. There are facts out there and they are more than "Israeli soldier killed a Palestinian man".
I say things that I know and live on daily basis and I'm not on auto-bias mode.

Not long ago (2016 in fact) we had a couple of crazy months where every day a Palestinian took a knife and stabbed people on the streets, on the bus, on the train station, in a bar, breaking into their houses and slaughtering entire families while they were asleep. Just like this.
So it doesn't come to us as a surprise when a Palestinian and a knife make it to the headlines. Sorry to burst the bubble, mental issues weren't part of it.

None of that has anything to do with my argument. Did this dead palastinian do all that?
Is all that any worse than soldiers firing live rounds at kids throwing stones? We all saw how that can end through the lens of a dead cameraman hugging a shot kid before he himself was blasted of the face of the earth as he lay desperate and helpless..an innocent man this time.

I find it amazing and diagusting that this is the first time a soldier in uniform has been brought to justice for his crimes.


Anyway.. I am not really on about the past, i'm on about this one particular event which for me shows a.soldier in uniform kill an unarmed and neatrolized assailant...

I assume you agreed with all the attrocities carried out by US GI's in vietnam, or is that a stupid thing to say!

[y.winter]

Originally Posted by parmnion

None of that has anything to do with my argument. Did this dead palastinian do all that?
Is all that any worse than soldiers firing live rounds at kids throwing stones? We all saw how that can end through the lens of a dead cameraman hugging a shot kid before he himself was blasted of the face of the earth as he lay desperate and helpless..an innocent man this time.

I find it amazing and diagusting that this is the first time a soldier in uniform has been brought to justice for his crimes.


Anyway.. I am not really on about the past, i'm on about this one particular event which for me shows a.soldier in uniform kill an unarmed and neatrolized assailant...

I assume you agreed with all the attrocities carried out by US GI's in vietnam, or is that a stupid thing to say!

My post was an answer to what I quoted which was you basically saying that you speak based about the few things you saw and read. I gave you an example of how narrow is it to base your facts when you know little.
Look, I don't care if you're for or against the Israeli soldier, you're entitled to have your opinion on that. I didn't support him either. But stating with such a great confidence that the man on the ground isn't a terrorist is what I can't understand.

Originally Posted by parmnion

They quote him and there is no word of terrorist...so until you quote him saying terrorist i will stick by what i said.

Are you out of your mind?! Do you have any idea of how long does the whole thing has been going on? Do you know how many interviews, how many statements have been released since then by the PM, the IDF, Ex-Generals etc? The Palestinian man's actions are old news, we all know his part in the event. The statement was about Elor being found guilty fgs. Are you seriously basing your facts on one statement, one of dozens, which don't even mention the Palestinian? That's it?
It's a joke.

Please define what's a terrorist, because your opinions and allegedly facts are making me worry.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Ok i found it. Good job that soldier killing a terrorist, he should be rewarded not imprisoned

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said he supported a pardon for a soldier who was convicted of manslaughter on Wednesday for fatally shooting a wounded Palestinian assailant.

"I support a pardon for Elor Azaria," he said.

“This is a difficult and painful day for all of us, and first and formost for Elor and his family, for IDF soldiers, for many soldiers and for the parents of our soldiers, and me among them.

"We have one army, which is the basis of our existence. The soldiers of the IDF are our sons and daughters, and they need to remain above dispute.”



http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/ve...ian-1161042616

[Beso]

There you go..even the head honcho in israel doesn't describe him as a terrorist.

[y.winter]

Originally Posted by parmnion

There you go..even the head honcho in israel doesn't describe him as a terrorist.

No, he didn't. It's not the PM's quote, it's the newspaper's description.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by y.winter

No, he didn't. It's not the PM's quote, it's the newspaper's description.

They quote him and there is no word of terrorist...so until you quote him saying terrorist i will stick by what i said.

[Livia]

One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Livia

One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.

You do realise that that phrase is usually said with the intention of understanding the motivations of terrorists... right?

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Livia

One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.

Exactly and so all of those Israelis fighting for more land are terrorists to the Palestinians and all those Palestinians fighting back (without the privilege of an army) are terrorists to Israel.

It takes at least two sides to fight a war.

[Crimson Dynamo]

The recent series of attacks against Israelis is the direct result of incitement by radical Islamist and terrorist elements, calling on Palestinian youth to murder Jews. ​​

Fifteen months of terror – 13 September 2015 to the present

Since 13 September 2015, 42 people have been killed in terrorist attacks and 602 people (including 4 Palestinians) injured.
There have been 167 stabbing attacks and 89 attempted stabbings; 116 shootings; 48 vehicular (ramming) attacks; and one vehicle (bus) bombing

According to the Meir Amit Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center (ITIC), beginning in September 2015, there has been a wave of terrorist attacks which began on the Temple Mount and in east Jerusalem. The attacks later spread to Judea and Samaria and even crossed the Green Line into Israel under the battle cry of "Al-Aqsa mosque is in danger."
The current wave of terrorist attacks is part of the PA's strategy of "popular resistance" (i.e., popular terrorism) adopted by the PA and Fatah at the Sixth Fatah conference in August 2009. Statements by Fatah, Hamas and PIJ spokespersons have described the attacks as "heroic actions" and "the natural response to Israel's crimes".

http://mfa.gov.il/MFA/ForeignPolicy/...ober-2015.aspx


who would be an Israeli soldier?

[Beso]

Oh and i never claim my opinion ia fact...if i do i usually put FACT next to it..or if i am trying to sway someone i dont accuse them of not gaining all the facts i usually show them the bit of info missing from their point of view..so ywinter..no, i am not going to read the verdict as it took the court 12 hours to read it out but i can assume that seeing as no tv station out of the 8 or 9 i have been following the story on has described the dead palastinian as a terrorist then tht same courts verdict did not describe him as such either.....

[y.winter]

Oh, you already gave up. never mind.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by y.winter

Oh, you already gave up. never mind.

Gave up on what?

I still think it should have been murder and not manslaughter...terrorist, civillian..donald fu king duck..in my opinion he should have been done for murder...not sure how or why you claim victory just cause you think pigs have wings ffs.

Very confusing..