[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Yeah... thanks for mansplaining how women feel

Maybe not put well, but I mean't that jack was seeing this from a male perspective. I on the other hand see it from a female perspective and therefore get how many women feel.

If men or women are happy to use unisex toilets that's fine, but people should still have a choice.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Maybe not put well, but I mean't that jack was seeing this from a male perspective. I on the other hand see it from a female perspective and therefore get how many women feel.

If men or women are happy to use unisex toilets that's fine, but people should still have a choice.

Ah right ok, I think I would prefer a choice too tbh.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

You don't understand that, as a woman I do.

the plot thickens...

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

the plot thickens...

I used to think you were female until you mentioned your wife. How mystifying these sites can be.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

I used to think you were female until you mentioned your wife. How mystifying these sites can be.

Err that is offensive, I could have been a lesbian.

I'm not, but I could have been.

I feel like the only explanation is that I have a... Creative flourish... In my writing style whereas you come across as harsh and brutish like a Russian ice trucker.

Ironically this means that both of us are non-binary and should probably be sharing the TiBB trans bathroom.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Coming from a male perspective.

Many women would not be comfortable sharing bsthrooms with men - it doesn't matter whether you agree with that or not, that is how many women feel and such decisions should be theirs, not men's.

It's not just about sex crimes although this is undoubtedly an issue as most victims of sex crimes are female and most perpetrators are male, that is fact.

It is also about about simple things such as comfort, dignity and privacy - things that often affect/bother women more than men. You don't understand that, as a woman I do.

It really isn't for men to say women shouldn't be 'allowed' their own toilets/bathrooms.

Indeed. I have extremely strong views on this topic as its something thats only became apparent to me fairly recently and before that I was a good little 'trans ally' who did not question anything about it all. I still hold the view that transgender people should recieve support, should not be discriminated against when it comes to housing, healthcare, and so on. However I cannot get behind this throwing females under the bus...I just can't. Its throwing males under the bus too but not quite as much as it is mainly females in danger from males, not the other way around.

My husband started off thinking that these laws and stuff only applied to those who have 'fully transitioned' and as such he thought I was transphobic for my views. However once it became apparently that they were not, and that those who have transitioned have no issues anyway...he now agrees with me 100% and also says he would not be comfortable with females in the male loos/changing rooms/whatever. I get that this is likely a rare view as men probably don't really give a crap if a woman sees his dick. But some do.

Male and female are not a state in ones head. They are a biological reality. Honestly..I have seen articles and such claiming that sex is the social construct No dear, that would be 'gender'.

I also do not believe that part in that article that states many young women were being questioned for looking like young boys in female areas. That just doesn't happen, or definitely not enough to make out its common. I know so many butch women and not one has ever had an issue. People do realise that women who are not feminine exist....

[Jack_]

On what basis?

There is just no logic to this argument whatsoever. The proliferation of unisex toilets would inevitably mean more people in any one bathroom at any one time. Which, by all conventional wisdom, thus makes them safer.

And again, if you think that right now, this very minute, with the existing set ups we have - 'perverts and rapists' won't enter toilets that don't correspond to their gender because of a sign above the door, you are sadly mistaken. Also again - you're more likely to be attacked at home than you are in a public toilet.

[Denver]

Originally Posted by Jack_

On what basis?

There is just no logic to this argument whatsoever. The proliferation of unisex toilets would inevitably mean more people in any one bathroom at any one time. Which, by all conventional wisdom, thus makes them safer.

And again, if you think that right now, this very minute, with the existing set ups we have - 'perverts and rapists' won't enter toilets that don't correspond to their gender because of a sign above the door, you are sadly mistaken. Also again - you're more likely to be attacked at home than you are in a public toilet.

Nobody will notice people taken pics of people in other cubicles because they can be in there and nobody will kick up a fuss of someone entering late at night and rapes the only person in there.

Also everyone is entitled to privacy within there own gender and should not be forced to share

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Jack_

On what basis?

There is just no logic to this argument whatsoever. The proliferation of unisex toilets would inevitably mean more people in any one bathroom at any one time. Which, by all conventional wisdom, thus makes them safer.

And again, if you think that right now, this very minute, with the existing set ups we have - 'perverts and rapists' won't enter toilets that don't correspond to their gender because of a sign above the door, you are sadly mistaken. Also again - you're more likely to be attacked at home than you are in a public toilet.

This is true, however at the moment if you see a bloke in the womens, you can tell them to piss off or complain. If this 'gender identity bill' gets passed (in the UK, not USA) then gender identity trumps sex and you cannot do this anymore. You would be committing a hate crime by going to walk into the loo, seeing a hairy biker and walking back out because of this, as this would be bigoted as he 'is a woman too'. Its all silly when you look deep enough into it. Basically, if 'gender'' trumps sex, ****ing sexism can no longer be defined by law either! Sacked for breastfeeding? Not sexist...men can breastfeed too. And so on...

I do feel deeply sorry for transsexual people who have been caught in this cross fire as as I said, they have been using their chosen sex facilities for years and years with no issue. So they are being harmed also by all of this bollocks. A law isn't needed and will ONLY help those wishing to abuse it.

New builds, make everything communal, fair enough. Convert older places if you can afford it. But to say the sexed areas are open to all? What help does this do anyone? It certainly does not help transsexual people who are already using the female areas as they are scared of the male violence in the males...given any male can now stroll in anyway. I use this as an example as I am yet to see any complaints the other way round, infact from what I have seen transmen do not want to use the mens...

[Jack_]

With all due respect, you're making no sense at all.

People can take pictures of other people in cubicles now. In fact, if we're going to be stereotypical about this (since it only seems to be 'pervy men' that are being discussed), I'd hazard a guess that the majority of people who would be doing so would be men...to other men.

For the third time, someone could enter a public toilet late at night now and rape the only person in there. I don't know how many times I have to say this - a sign above a door isn't going to stop them from entering. What may prevent them, however, is the likelihood that comes with unisex toilets of there being more people in them at any one time.

Gender segregation is absurd on a whole multitude of levels that go way beyond toilets and changing rooms, but if we run with your last sentence then fair enough - but such a privilege is also granted to any trans person wishing to go to the toilet they feel comfortable with in private. It's as simple as that. You can't have your cake and eat it.

[Denver]

Anyway it will never be brought in so you are wasting your time

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Adam.

Anyway it will never be brought in so you are wasting your time

Actually, it might well be

http://citizengo.org/en-gb/pc/41304-...-identity-bill

Its about to be passed in this country...

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Actually, it might well be

http://citizengo.org/en-gb/pc/41304-...-identity-bill

Its about to be passed in this country...

That maybe time for me to protest on the streets if so.

No way I am using unisex bathrooms. My poor mother would be mortified. What about little old ladies who frequently need the loo - are they really expected to share a bathroom with men of all age groups.

It's ridiculous and really not thought through properly - just a hysterical reaction to PC in my opinion.

[Jack_]

It's gone 2am and you're posting on a Big Brother forum. We're both wasting our time, except you're doing so by losing a debate.

You'll see anyway. I'm sure many thought the same about racial segregation.

[Denver]

race is different to gender.

Women have not thought for decades to be equal just to be shoved back into sharing bathrooms with men it is a pointless and weird thing for people to want.

Why would anyone want a young girl sharing the same bathroom as a man who isnt her dad

[Jack_]

You'd be surprised, the two are related in many ways.

Women have not fought for 'decades' for segregated toilets, either. What a laughable proposition.

Because not everyone lives their life engulfed by these weird Daily Mail esque fallacies where all adult men are child molesters in waiting, or rapists hanging around public toilets, or desperate to take pictures of people in other cubicles but won't enter because a nasty little sign says they're not allowed in, perhaps?

[Denver]

Why the **** are you campaigning so hard for children to be exposed to more people this way

[Jack_]

Why the **** are you so obsessed with this disturbing idea that all men are child molesters hanging around public toilets?

[Denver]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Why the **** are you so obsessed with this disturbing idea that all men are child molesters hanging around public toilets?

Stop trying to be edgy daffodil facts is it is a terrible idea and there is a reason it is not legal

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Adam.

Stop trying to be edgy daffodil facts is it is a terrible idea and there is a reason it is not legal

'Edgy daffodil'? Okay, now you must be trolling.

It's not legal? So my university is breaking the law having just built several unisex toilets then? Right, I got you.

There are no 'facts' on your side of the argument. Only bizarre dystopian nightmares that have no basis in reality.

[Denver]

Originally Posted by Jack_

'Edgy daffodil'? Okay, now you must be trolling.

It's not legal? So my university is breaking the law having just built several unisex toilets then? Right, I got you.

There are no 'facts' on your side of the argument. Only bizarre dystopian nightmares that have no basis in reality.

They can never make people use Unisex what more facts do you need

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Why the **** are you so obsessed with this disturbing idea that all men are child molesters hanging around public toilets?

Adam hasn't said that tbf. Also the overwhelming amount of sexual crime is committed by males. 95% I believe it is. So it kind of is an issue...clearly

[Denver]

We have enough child abuse problems as it is now this makes them easier targets by anyone and everyone

[Jack_]

Christ this is monotonous.

How does it? For the last time (well, it won't be, let's be honest) - sexual assaults (especially against children) are far more likely to take place somewhere familiar to the child than they are in a ****ing public toilet. I don't know whether your vision of the world is some dystopian Maddie McCann/Jimmy Saville nightmare where all public toilets are like the BBC in the 70s, but it has no basis in reality.

Unisex toilets means more people, which automatically makes them safer.

[Denver]

Doesnt make it safer if it is a group of people against one