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user104658 · 09-11-2017, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livia

I went to a fancy dress party where someone was dressed up as a member of the SS. I was not insulted. It was a party. He wasn't there to gas Jews, he was there for a party.

As a matter of interest though, I'm sure there would be some Jewish people who WOULD have a problem with a Nazi costume and what would be your opinion / reacting to a fellow Jew (and the situation) in your company if they were uncomfortable with it?

Surely there's an element of moderating oneself based on the present company, if their feelings on it are known, anyway. For example, one of my best friends is a gay man and he finds "gay jokes" hilarious... like side-splittingly funny... to more controversial the better. He's just a fan of controversial humour... he has the best nervous laugh... he's terrified of people telling him that they've had a family member die because he has an uncontrollable urge to laugh at inappropriate times

. So a lot of what most people would consider unacceptable "gay jokes" fly around if he's out with old friends. However, his partner is not-so-comfortable with it so when they're both there, it obviously gets reigned right in.

I also wonder if it's maybe down to past experiences? As my friend had a relatively easy / accepting "coming out" and as far as I know never really experienced anything in the way of verbal attacks or abuse "for real". If he had maybe it would "taint" any light-hearted controversial joking on the subject?

Livia · 09-11-2017, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

As a matter of interest though, I'm sure there would be some Jewish people who WOULD have a problem with a Nazi costume and what would be your opinion / reacting to a fellow Jew (and the situation) in your company if they were uncomfortable with it?

Surely there's an element of moderating oneself based on the present company, if their feelings on it are known, anyway. For example, one of my best friends is a gay man and he finds "gay jokes" hilarious... like side-splittingly funny... to more controversial the better. He's just a fan of controversial humour... he has the best nervous laugh... he's terrified of people telling him that they've had a family member die because he has an uncontrollable urge to laugh at inappropriate times

. So a lot of what most people would consider unacceptable "gay jokes" fly around if he's out with old friends. However, his partner is not-so-comfortable with it so when they're both there, it obviously gets reigned right in.

I also wonder if it's maybe down to past experiences? As my friend had a relatively easy / accepting "coming out" and as far as I know never really experienced anything in the way of verbal attacks or abuse "for real". If he had maybe it would "taint" any light-hearted controversial joking on the subject?

Interestingly, I did have a discussion about this with my grandmother. She's a Holocaust Survivor in her 90s. She tutted and rolled her eyes. But she wasn't insulted. It was a party... they weren't gassing Jews. In the same way she doesn't take offence at 'Allo 'Allo.

I do see what you're saying though and yes, there will be some Jews who might have taken offence. But really, you can't please all of the people all of the time. Indeed, you could die trying.

Kizzy · 09-11-2017, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livia

I went to a fancy dress party where someone was dressed up as a member of the SS. I was not insulted. It was a party. He wasn't there to gas Jews, he was there for a party.

When I lived in London, I knew a lot of white people who danced Bhangra. Should they be allowed to wear traditional Indian dress if they're white?

My opinion is that, if you intend to insult and ridicule, then you're racist. If you're having a party, a parade, whatever... and your intention is not to insult and ridicule, then what's the harm?

Kids dressed up as cowboys and Indians for years yet I've never heard anyone complain that it was insulting to Native Americans who, incidentally, per head of capita are the largest ethnic group in the USA to suffer fatal shootings at the hands of the police. I find it interesting that no one's taken up their plight and had a march.

And you speak for the entire Jewish community?
Also as you wouldn't have an issue it doesn't and shouldn't naturally follow that any Zulus or descendants won't take exception to this bizarre display.

The harm being it does ridicule and insult in the topic in discussion, whatever the intent.

The point in relation to children playing is entirely irrelevant and not comparable here at all.

Livia · 09-11-2017, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kizzy

And you speak for the entire Jewish community?
Also as you wouldn't have an issue it doesn't and shouldn't naturally follow that any Zulus or descendants won't take exception to this bizarre display.

The harm being it does ridicule and insult in the topic in discussion, whatever the intent.

The point in relation to children playing is entirely irrelevant and not comparable here at all.

Luckily, you don't get to decide what is and isn't relevant.

How many actors have done "red face" to make a Western, Hmmm? Lots.

Kizzy · 09-11-2017, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livia

Luckily, you don't get to decide what is and isn't relevant.

How many actors have done "red face" to make a Western, Hmmm? Lots.

Right so we've transcended from children playing, to spaghetti westerns? OK
Start a thread and we'll discuss that.

Livia · 09-11-2017, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Right so we've transcended from children playing, to spaghetti westerns? OK
Start a thread and we'll discuss that.

Don't try to muddy the waters here. We're talking about whether it's racist to dress up as another race. I made the point about Native Americans. We don't need another thread I am perfectly on topic.

Cherie · 09-11-2017, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kizzy

And you speak for the entire Jewish community?
Also as you wouldn't have an issue it doesn't and shouldn't naturally follow that any Zulus or descendants won't take exception to this bizarre display.

The harm being it does ridicule and insult in the topic in discussion, whatever the intent.

The point in relation to children playing is entirely irrelevant and not comparable here at all.

you are happy to take on Zulu's word for it though, that he was offended, even though he wasn't to begin with as offence for the whole Zulu population

Kizzy · 09-11-2017, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherie

you are happy to take on Zulu's word for it though, that he was offended, even though he wasn't to begin with as offence for the whole Zulu population

I am happy to take 'the Zulus' or Mr Gumedes word for it yes, even though he initially wasn't of course why wouldn't I?

Of course I haven't ever suggested that Mr Gumede is offended on behalf of all Zulu... What a strange thing to insinuate.

Cherie · 09-11-2017, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I am happy to take 'the Zulus' or Mr Gumedes word for it yes, even though he initially wasn't of course why wouldn't I?

Of course I haven't ever suggested that Mr Gumede is offended on behalf of all Zulu... What a strange thing to insinuate.

Yet you weren't happy for Livia to not be offended on her own behalf, you insinuated she was speaking for all Jews? you can't have it both ways

Kizzy · 11-11-2017, 02:40 AM

I've had a post deleted? News to me.

lostalex · 11-11-2017, 07:40 AM

I remember when Kizzy first came to this place. She's still just as annoying. Hey kizz! nice to see ya!

she loves me too.

Kizzy · 11-11-2017, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lostalex

I remember when Kizzy first came to this place. She's still just as annoying. Hey kizz! nice to see ya!

she loves me too.

Hi yep my first memory of you is you asking Ben to ban me... good timez LOL

Northern Monkey · 11-11-2017, 11:56 AM

It’s exactly this kind of attitude that is anti inclusive and breeds division.If something is blatant racism then people will call it out.
Dressing as another culture is not racism.Now if somebody was dressing up as a black minstrel with white eyes i’d condem it too as it has a racist history.
Common sense and context is needed.Multiculturalism is bringing us a fairly new set of problems and common sense from everyone is needed.

Niamh. · 13-11-2017, 01:21 PM

I just went back and checked, there was around 8 posts deleted in this thread none of them were Kizzys though

Kizzy · 13-11-2017, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I just went back and checked, there was around 8 posts deleted in this thread none of them were Kizzys though

Thanks to you both for highlighting that for me

Cherie · 13-11-2017, 01:44 PM

[QUOTE=Cherie;9688263]No I don't believe I did misinterpret your post, if deleted posts were still in evidence it would back that up [/QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I just went back and checked, there was around 8 posts deleted in this thread none of them were Kizzys though

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Thanks to you both for highlighting that for me

Sorry Ladies, I never specified that it was Kizzys post that was deleted, in fact it was another deleted post that would indicate that I didn't misinterpret Kizzy's original intention.

Kizzy · 13-11-2017, 01:48 PM

[QUOTE=Cherie;9691304]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherie

No I don't believe I did misinterpret your post, if deleted posts were still in evidence it would back that up [/QUOTE]

Sorry Ladies, I never specified that it was Kizzys post that was deleted, in fact it was another deleted post that would indicate that I didn't misinterpret Kizzy's original intention.

Eh how could someone elses post prove you did misinterpret me if all mine are here?
Unless someone deleted their own post as I had blown their cock eyed theory out of the water and they were embarrassed I don't understand how that could happen.

Cherie · 13-11-2017, 01:51 PM

[QUOTE=Kizzy;9691312]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherie

Eh how could someone elses post prove you did misinterpret me if all mine are here?
Unless someone deleted their own post as I had blown their cock eyed theory out of the water and they were embarrassed I don't understand how that could happen.

omg Kizzy can you just stop, they agreed with my post, it was deleted as they sort of insulted you I guess, and I would imagine you were the one that reported it as I can't imagine anyone else would have been bothered, not responding to you again on this as it is getting a bit stupid now in all honesty, so carry on making posts about it if you must

jet · 13-11-2017, 10:02 PM

[QUOTE=Kizzy;9691312]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherie

Eh how could someone elses post prove you did misinterpret me if all mine are here?
Unless someone deleted their own post as I had blown their cock eyed theory out of the water and they were embarrassed I don't understand how that could happen.

No, I didn't delete any of my posts Kizzy...and the theory wasn't mine, it was part of one of many I studied back in the day in uni for my degree and which I partially agree with. That's why I said to TS 'What do you think of the theory'? and not 'Listen, this is what I think'. I thought 'what do you think of the theory' would be understood, but obviously not by you.
And no, you didn't 'blow it out of the water'. In fact your over - reaction of the little bit I posted of it makes me suspect it touched a nerve.

Crimson Dynamo · 13-11-2017, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I just went back and checked, there was around 8 posts deleted in this thread none of them were Kizzys though

best delete about 8 of Kizzy's to balance this?

or 16?

Kizzy · 13-11-2017, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

best delete about 8 of Kizzy's to balance this?

or 16?

Censorship?... Authoritarianism begins :/

Alf · 13-11-2017, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I just went back and checked, there was around 8 posts deleted in this thread none of them were Kizzys though

Burn them books.

arista · 14-11-2017, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Let's face it, a lot of people are going to consider this to be racist and I think most reasonable people will know that, even if they don't necessarily agree. With that in mind, should people be more culturally sensitive when arranging events like this?

Yes its Another Nation.