[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Withano

Should have been specified that they only wanted opinions from females in the OP then - I didn't know?

I didn't start the thread

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I didn't start the thread

I knew that yeh... but if Vicky thought mens opinions on the topic were irrelevant (she didnt) then she should have said in the OP.. but she didn't.. so can I discuss this or?

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

No offence but you're a man it's not men it effects so it's irrelevant if you're fine with it or not

Here, here. Those that are actually affected by it are the ones whose opinions count.

[MB.]

btw Vicky you might also want to decide whether you want to call transwomen transwomen, 'transwomen' in inverted commas, or men, as you've been switching between all three in this thread

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by MB.

btw Vicky you might also want to decide whether you want to call transwomen transwomen, 'transwomen' in inverted commas, or men, as you've been switching between all three in this thread

Transwomen are both transwomen and male. Didnt realise I had said men :S

I should really start using 'trans identified males' instead. Makes much more sense.

[Vicky.]

I did not only want answers from females. But its impossible to ignore that the most vocal transactivists are male people. And that overwhelmingly its males who have no issue at all with the erasure of women. And thats what it is, lets be honest. For example, highest grossing trilogy by a female is currently the matrix brothers who have decided they are women, first woman on the frontline is male, jenner is woman of the year and so on. And its always transwomen (males) yelling about wanting to put themselves and their penis into female changing rooms, or wanting transfers to womens prisons. Transactivists are on the whole, angry males with entitlement issues, also narcisistsic and refusing to see any possible issues to opening female areas up to all males. Why is this? Maybe because, not being women, they do not care that men are (on the whole) a danger to women. And as such see no problem with men being mixed with women in vulnerable situations

Not having lived as an actual woman, you are not really qualified on womens issues. And no 'living as a woman' does not mean wearing makeup and dresses. It means being ****ing female. Its mysoginistic bull**** to say men are women just because they say they are and follow stereotypes.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I did not only want answers from females. But its impossible to ignore that the most vocal transactivists are male people. And that overwhelmingly its males who have no issue at all with the erasure of women. And thats what it is, lets be honest. For example, highest grossing trilogy by a female is currently the matrix brothers who have decided they are women, first woman on the frontline is male, jenner is woman of the year and so on. And its always transwomen (males) yelling about wanting to put themselves and their penis into female changing rooms, or wanting transfers to womens prisons. Transactivists are on the whole, angry males with entitlement issues, also narcisistsic and refusing to see any possible issues to opening female areas up to all males. Why is this? Maybe because, not being women, they do not care that men are (on the whole) a danger to women. And as such see no problem with men being mixed with women in vulnerable situations

Not having lived as an actual woman, you are not really qualified on womens issues. And no 'living as a woman' does not mean wearing makeup and dresses. It means being ****ing female. Its mysoginistic bull**** to say men are women just because they say they are and follow stereotypes.

I totally agreed with your post until the ‘men are on the whole a danger to women’.Most men are not.Some sick bastards are.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

I totally agreed with your post until the ‘men are on the whole a danger to women’.Most men are not.Some sick bastards are.

On the whole. As in, as a class. Not each individual man I do believe there are many many more decent men than bad ones. But I cannot deny that men, on the whole, are a danger to women.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I did not only want answers from females. But its impossible to ignore that the most vocal transactivists are male people. And that overwhelmingly its males who have no issue at all with the erasure of women. And thats what it is, lets be honest. For example, highest grossing trilogy by a female is currently the matrix brothers who have decided they are women, first woman on the frontline is male, jenner is woman of the year and so on. And its always transwomen (males) yelling about wanting to put themselves and their penis into female changing rooms, or wanting transfers to womens prisons. Transactivists are on the whole, angry males with entitlement issues, also narcisistsic and refusing to see any possible issues to opening female areas up to all males. Why is this? Maybe because, not being women, they do not care that men are (on the whole) a danger to women. And as such see no problem with men being mixed with women in vulnerable situations

I'll be honest, this seems like a different issue entirely, has zero relevance to the OP surely?

Not having lived as an actual woman, you are not really qualified on womens issues. And no 'living as a woman' does not mean wearing makeup and dresses. It means being ****ing female. Its mysoginistic bull**** to say men are women just because they say they are and follow stereotypes.

And not to play teams, but honestly, I dont think many people think this way anymore. Seems super outdated. Not all trans people are stereotypes? I feel like you know that too.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Withano

I'll be honest, this seems like a different issue entirely, has zero relevance to the OP surely?

Its an extension of the same issue. I may have gone off on a rant, but its true.

And not to play teams, but honestly, I dont think many people think this way anymore. Seems super outdated. Not all trans people are stereotypes? I feel like you know that too.

Think what way? That male and female are actually real things? And that each group has their own needs entirely seperate from the other group?

And yes, it is mostly about stereotypes with 'transgender' people.

Not transsexual people though, who actually have sex dysphoria. Who are not the ones insting that they ARE women.

Do you know how wide the 'trans umbrella' is now? Trans no longer means transsexual. No dysphoria is necessary, and its transphobic to suggest that it is. Or that trans is about 'born in the wrong body'.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Its an extension of the same issue. I may have gone off on a rant, but its true.



Think what way? That male and female are actually real things? And that each group has their own needs entirely seperate from the other group?

And yes, it is mostly about stereotypes with 'transgender' people.

Not transsexual people though, who actually have sex dysphoria. Who are not the ones insting that they ARE women.

Tbf, and tell me if I'm wrong.. but it sounds like you're suggesting there should be a job specifically for trans rights? (If theyre not covered under their preferred pronouns' rights.. cos like otherwise youre suggesting they shouldnt have anybody covering their rights?). And I'd agree, that would make more sense to me.

But idk what that has got to do with this person having that job - doesnt seem mutally exclusive to me. They got that job cos they were the best person for it.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Withano

Tbf, and tell me if I'm wrong.. but it sounds like you're suggesting there should be a job specifically for trans rights? (If theyre not covered under their preferred pronouns' rights.. cos like otherwise youre suggesting they shouldnt have anybody covering their rights?). And I'd agree, that would make more sense to me.

But idk what that has got to do with this person having that job - doesnt seem mutally exclusive to me. They got that job cos they were the best person for it.

Indeed. Transwomens issues are not really womens issues, and womens issues are not tranwomans issues. It is wrong to appoint a transwoman as basically a spokesperson for women. They are not the same, not even of the same sex.

It should be noted here, that this person passed up the LGBT officer job, specifically to go for the womens officer.

[Northern Monkey]

Bet nobody knew it was International mens day yesterday.

Female privilege

[Vicky.]

Or do you think a white person would be suited to a role about black peoples rights if they knew a bit about black people and their struggles? Would this be fine? I think not, somehow. I definitely would not think so...regardless of how much the white person said they knew about black people.

Maybe this is where we are getting mixed up.

[Vicky.]

*also, I think the equal opportunities act would make that illegal

There are exceptions to the act. Not sure exactly what but I know for example, a rape crisis counselor for women...the post can specify that a female person gets it.

[Candy Annie Cane]

I find this worrying too.....more on an age issue than sex though. A 19 year old has no where close to the life experience to hold this type of role imo

[Withano]

No I was confused too, I thought Vicky was talking about a trans woman who practically pushed a woman out of the job for a different man (in every sense of the word) to get the job afterwards.

[Vicky.]

A male joined forces with another male to bully a lesbian woman out of her role as womans officer, then took the role of womans officer themselves. Is that better?

[Jamie89]

Like I said I wasn't trying to start a debate about the pronouns it was just a suggestion to make things a bit less confusing that's all, my main point is the stuff I posted about the competence of the person carrying out the role.

[Vicky.]

And gender identity is utter bollocks. People can not 'feel male' or 'feel female'. They just are male or female. One can have absolutely no idea of how the other 'feels' anymore than a human can know how a donkey feels. They may be feminine or masculine, neither of which has anything to do with sex really.

Though as an athiest, I don't believe in souls anyway. So don't believe any of the 'born in the wrong body' stuff anyway. Which is lucky as 'born in the wrong body' is transphobic these days anyways As are most beliefs that differ in any way from from 'transwomen are female and transmen are male' and 'biology is irrelevant'

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

And gender identity is utter bollocks. People can not 'feel male' or 'feel female'. They just are male or female. One can have absolutely no idea of how the other 'feels' anymore than a human can know how a donkey feels. They may be feminine or masculine, neither of which has anything to do with sex really.

My point with mentioning gender identity though was that it isn't a factor in any of this because although Lily has an opposing view to yours, that view doesn't conflict with the responsibilities of this role?

[Vicky.]

Part of the role, is to sort out womens issues. Not just recruit women to the party.

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Part of the role, is to sort out womens issues. Not just recruit women to the party.

The only thing I really have to go on is the link I posted before so I'm not really sure what this pertains to?

[Vicky.]

Just realised, your link specificaly states 'The women’s officer must be a woman.'

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Just realised, your link specificaly states 'The women’s officer must be a woman.'

Sounds logical to me.