[Withano]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

stop talking rot. Donald is a father, you are not, to say he does not care is beyond stupid, in fact its insulting

get a grip

Does he care enough to try and stop this from happening again though?

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Withano

Does he care enough to try and stop this from happening again though?

Now you want him to be God!

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Withano

Does he care enough to try and stop this from happening again though?

Exactly !!! And he DOESN'T. Screw the fact he's a father . He hasn't even acknowledged that guns are the problem!!! .

The teenager was a white supremacist so he's only "mentally ill " to Trump . This will keep happening and nothing will be done about it .

Some Americans think the answer is more guns in schools , the stupidity is beyond words !.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Withano

Does he care enough to try and stop this from happening again though?

he is a figurehead not a dictator

what did obama do

jack sh1te

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

And Trump doesn't give a damn, he was spouting BS about mental health. It's interesting how when an American teenager massacres students & teachers it's "mental illness" that's the only issue to him instead of the elephant in the room regarding easy access to guns .

When it's middle eastern terrorists then Trump wants them deported.

Things will never change, they don't care about these victims atall otherwise they'd of taken action already.

Trump always spouts mental health. Get a clue Trump, if you have so many crazies who want to go shoot your countries kids, stop making it easy for them to get guns!

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by jaxie

Trump always spouts mental health. Get a clue Trump, if you have so many crazies who want to go shoot your countries kids, stop making it easy for them to get guns!

I can't stand him !! .

[Alf]

The Third Reich enforced gun controls against the German people, particularly Jews, which made holocaust victims weaker to resist oppression.

It's security against tyranny. We have our Monarch that gives us security against tyranny.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I dont think we have a local White Supremacist group?

I expect Id have to go to Edinburgh if the need came up

[Crimson Dynamo]

8th Feb 2018:



Yesterday, a Senate Judiciary Subcommittee passed Senate Study Bill 3155 to propose an amendment to the state Constitution guaranteeing “the right of the people to acquire, keep, possess, transport, carry, transfer, and use arms” and Senate File 2106 to enact permitless carry in Iowa. Both bills will now go to the Senate Judiciary Committee, which could take them up for consideration as early as next week.

Senate Study Bill 3155, authored by Senator Brad Zaun (R-20), is the companion bill to House Joint Resolution 13. They will need to pass this year and next before a constitutional amendment is put on the ballot for Iowa voters to decide in 2020. Currently, Iowa is one of six states that do not have a right to keep and bear arms amendment in its state constitution, including California, Maryland, Minnesota, New Jersey, and New York.

Senate File 2106, authored by Senator Rick Bertrand (R-7), would allow law-abiding adults to legally carry a firearm without first needing to obtain a Permit to Carry Weapons (PCW). Self-defense situations are difficult, if not impossible, to anticipate. Accordingly, a law-abiding adult’s right to defend themselves in such situations should not be conditioned by government-mandated time delays and taxes. The PCW will still be available for those who wish to take advantage of reciprocity agreements when traveling to other states.

Stay tuned to www.nraila.org and your email inbox for further updates as these bills and others affecting your Second Amendment rights in Iowa.

https://twitter.com/NRA?ref_src=twsr...Ctwgr%5Eauthor

[Cherie]

Looks like the signs were there but people distanced themselves rather than getting him help, his fascination with guns should have been a red flag to someone somewhere

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Looks like the signs were there but people distanced themselves rather than getting him help, his fascination with guns should have been a red flag to someone somewhere

He was getting help to some degree, but apparently it didn't work as he quit going. Also I read somewhere he was reported to authorities at least once... maybe the article I shared mentioned it, but I thought I read maybe a few times more than that... teachers were certainly aware because they wrote an ominous email saying "to keep an eye" on him.

Usually killing animals for pleasure and self-gratification is a precursor to killing human beings. He put it all out there, so the picture was pretty complete in terms what he was capable of. Just nobody really acted on it. It seemed like a cry for help. (edit)

Our culture is in a mental health crisis. This may sound strange, but I think guns are going to be the least of our issues if they don't do something about our kids. Faux Twitter sympathy and social media doesn't replace real human contact... how can you help and really reach out to another person from behind a cellphone?

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Maru

He was getting help to some degree, but apparently it didn't work as he quit going. Also I read somewhere he was reported to authorities at least once... maybe the article I shared mentioned it, but I thought I read maybe a few times more than that... teachers were certainly aware because they wrote an ominous email saying "to keep an eye" on him.

Usually killing animals for pleasure and self-gratification is a precursor to killing human beings. He put it all out there, so the picture was pretty complete in terms what he was capable of. Just nobody really acted on it.

Our culture is in a mental health crisis. This may sound strange, but I think guns are going to be the least of our issues if they don't do something about our kids. Faux Twitter sympathy and social media doesn't replace real human contact... how can you help and really reach out to another person from behind a cellphone?

As you'd say it in the States, parents and teachers need to give problem children a whooping.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Donald J. Trump



So many signs that the Florida shooter was mentally disturbed, even expelled from school for bad and erratic behavior. Neighbors and classmates knew he was a big problem. Must always report such instances to authorities, again and again!

[Crimson Dynamo]

he was torturing animals, sounds like a typical psychopath

[Maru]

I actually don't like executive orders. They're power-trippy. I prefer they pass legislation through and it's in the budget, etc.

[BBUK-Fan]

This is truly awful. They need to get rid of guns.

[BBUK-Fan]

Hearing these things have happened is just awful and it repulses how somebody would do something like that and hurt innocent people. Why does guns have to be the answer?

[Tozzie]

I've just seen a question on BBC News website, 'is it time to arm the teachers' FGS it's time to get rid of the guns!!!!!! Some say guns don't kill, it's the people who use them that kill, well if there were no guns those people couldn't kill with them!!!

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Tozzie

I've just seen a question on BBC News website, 'is it time to arm the teachers' FGS it's time to get rid of the guns!!!!!! Some say guns don't kill, it's the people who use them that kill, well if there were no guns those people couldn't kill with them!!!

And law abiding citizens couldn't defend themselves against criminals who obtain their guns illegally, they'd just be sitting ducks.

Why give the criminal all the power while at the same time taking away the power of the law abiding citizen?

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Alf

And law abiding citizens couldn't defend themselves against criminals who obtain their guns illegally, they'd just be sitting ducks.

Why give the criminal all the power while at the same time taking away the power of the law abiding citizen?

So by that crazy logic , what about all the knife crime and acid attacks here in the UK how should we solve that problem?? shall we all go around carrying knives and harmful chemicals in our bags and pockets just incase we get hurt by some violent person .

The answer isn't more guns . If those teachers had guns in that Florida school can you imagine the carnage that would of took place , it was already horrific but if the teachers had guns the firing would of been a bigger blood bath !! . And more innocent lives would of been lost .

Teachers aren't there to defend themselves with weapons ,they're there to teach the students and help them . Yes teachers will try and keep students safe but they shouldn't have to use guns to do that .

If we end up living in a world where every citizen carries a weapon , what kind of life is that?. It won't make people feel safer it will just cause paranoia and make everyone feel uneasy !.

[Maru]

Teachers already carry guns here. Several states have or have always had open carry. Texas has had open carry for a while now and I've yet to see a single person. My husband has seen one... in a city of over 2 million. A carry permit is required for concealed carry, as well as classes and training. There's not a ton of people who carry, but my husband does (mainly for his job), and it takes a while to go through while all the necessary background checks, etc are made. They ask you everything from your history, your reasons, any arrests, etc... an omission can get you flagged so you have to divulge everything during application. It takes a few months to go through. It took 6-8 months for my husband to get into law enforcement as they had to go out of state for his records and this process felt very similar to the paperwork side of that.

As for how "bloody" it could've been if more carried. There was a mass shooting at a church last year and it would have been a lot worse had it not been for armed citizens intervening.

Hero' exchanged fire with gunman, then helped chase him down
https://www.cnn.com/2017/11/05/us/te...ion/index.html

(CNN) The deadliest shooting in Texas history could have claimed even more lives if it weren't for two strangers who jumped into action, authorities said.

When Devin Patrick Kelley opened fire inside First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs on Sunday, Stephen Willeford, who lives near the church, grabbed his own gun and ran out of the house barefoot to confront the gunman.

"What do you say to the man who stepped up when he heard the gunshots? I'd say he's a hero," Wilson County Sheriff Joe Tackitt Jr. told CNN's Chris Cuomo on Monday. "I don't think there's any question about that. Had he not done what he did, we could have lost more people."

I can understand though how many feel here about weapons, and I'm quite sympathetic to that and not really bothersome in that aspect. In UK culture no individual would even have to fathom owning one so it's understandable that others are critical of something that they are not even exposed to it. We don't even have that option, even if they were outlawed, there would be a great deal of them grandfathered in (like in Australia).

All I can say is that most people who are at the range, they are safety-focused and quite mature when it comes to how they are handled. It's not a social engagement or a place where people go to chat. Safety is a big deal and they have someone who stands around monitoring how everything is run and they have regular periods where everyone stops and they check to make sure everyone is following the range's rules. It's not walk in and do whatever you please. They have strict procedures they follow and there are any number of things that could get you in trouble or kicked out. They also go up to people and help train them a bit if they're having trouble and will make sure they are not doing anything stupid. Have been to several and have always found the staff to be helpful and committed to safety.

There are kids that act like fools, but they're not going to do it in those places. It's usually on YT and FB actually... to complete strangers I guess. Especially here, where people are homeowners and gun ownership is only so common, but even someone who doesn't own will be quick to "have a word". They're not going to mouth off in front of adults... it'll be to peers who are stupid and have had no training. But for the most part, people take care of their business and they receive some education at the range. I've never really seen a gun out in the open (maybe in a gun cabinet? If that...) when visiting someone's home. And even if they had one, it's not something that you pay that much attention to?... we are so adjusted to it and feel safe enough to take it for granted I guess.

I do think AR-15s need to be banned up until at least 24 years. Most mental health issues have started to well manifest by that point, so it makes sense to push it off until at least around that age to also allow for people to mature before owning. Kids seem to be maturing later and later, so it makes sense to move the law up accordingly. Handguns can't be carried until 21, which is ironic, but it's probably because handguns are what are most often used in violent crimes. AR-15s are a smaller percentage. Rifles tend to be a home defense kind of thing. I've never seen anyone carrying those around for fun. They tend to be something that stays with you in your home for home protector or when you visit the range to practice. If you live near an open field like literally in the middle of no where, you may take it out... but in areas with a denser population, that isn't the case.

However, even if we ban them, I get the feeling eventually there will be 3D printers that can handle making gun parts and it's going to make a lot of this much more complicated to resolve. We can buy an entire AR-15, but generally many people buy kits (with some assembly necessary) or they buy individual parts and build them from scratch. The latter is common as it's a very customizable weapon. So when there is 3D printing for metal--which makes sense would happen eventually as we get away from the old way of buying one new thing after another. It makes sense that people will be able to build parts for old weapons or even make entirely new ones...

Ammunition is actually quite easy to make as well. It's called "reloading". You need to have certain tools to do it, but they're simple tools. The most difficult part is buying brass... well, if you can buy bullets, you have brass--as long as you buy a certain grade, the brass can usually be reused.

Bumstocks are also relatively easy to make (supposedly).

There's also the issue of criminals being able to obtain these weapons one way or another, and there's already areas with strict laws in places with high homicide rates that do such a swell job of keeping those people from owning (it doesn't)... so that more laws would not help in those cases. Even an age restriction.


As for the shooter, they're saying at this point he should've been flagged up the *ss in the ATF, but law enforcement dropped the ball... several times. The law is there, but if they don't enforce it, it wouldn't have mattered if a stricter law were in put in it's place.

I had listened to a podcast saying his mother had wanted him to be committed, as he is prone to fits of rage I need to find a source for that. Supposedly their neighbor would let him over and he would have one of his fits and had torn up their place. His history of violence was well-charted. There had been numerous police calls to his residence, 39 times over the course of seven years.

We don't have a system in the US where we can voluntarily or involuntarily commit someone and that's a much bigger issue imo. California has a 5150 hold (Britney Spears was detained using that protocol), but that is to a hospital for 3 days iirc, so not to a true psych facility. Certainly not nearly long enough for anyone to be monitored, for their medications to be put in order, much less for them to respond... (which sometimes takes months).

He was able to legally obtain a weapon even though he had a substantial history of violence, of making threats to other citizens, of psychiatric treatment, etc... but yet nothing was done. The FBI already has said they were notified but failed to do anything about it. Yet on his background check, nothing came back. He should've been flagged...

Another example of where he may have been caught--if he had committed a felony, especially a violent crime, those folk are not allowed to own under any circumstance. There are obviously many cases where they will do it anyway. For example, one of our friends pulled over a guy in a security guard uniform who was reporting to work... he talked about starting a new job, which required a firearm, and he was arrested on the spot. But the person has to interact with an officer for their full record to be looked into, and even then they have to be searched. Do we suggest now that we search all vehicles who are linked to a felon who driving weird on the road?... my crystal ball and witch broom are in my closet, but I can already see those headlines.

Alleged Florida school shooter Nikolas Cruz was reported to FBI, cops, school -- but warning signs missed
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/16...ns-missed.html

Attorney General Jeff Sessions on Friday ordered an "immediate review" after it emerged that the FBI had not acted on a recent tip that Florida school shooting suspect Nikolas Cruz wanted to “kill people” and there was the “potential of him conducting a school shooting.”

In a statement, the bureau admitted to receiving a call on Jan. 5 from a person close to Cruz who contacted the FBI through its Public Access Line (PAL) tipline to express concerns about his erratic behavior and disturbing social media posts.

Spoiler:

Cruz, 19, opened fire at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School on Wednesday, killing 17 people. He has confessed, according to court documents.

"Under established protocols, the information provided by the caller should have been assessed as a potential threat to life," the FBI statement said. "We have determined that these protocols were not followed for the information received by the PAL on Jan. 5."

"It is now clear that the warning signs were there and tips to the FBI were missed," Sessions said in a Friday afternoon statement. "We see the tragic consequences of those failures."

"The FBI in conjunction with our state and local partners must act flawlessly to prevent all attacks," Sessions continued. "This is imperative, and we must do better. I have ordered the deputy attorney general to conduct an immediate review of our process here at the Department of Justice and FBI to ensure that we reach the highest level of prompt and effective response to indications of potential violence that come to us."

The FBI concluded that the caller's information was not forwarded to the Miami FBI field office, and that "no further investigation was conducted at the time." FBI Director Christopher Wray said the bureau would review what had happened.

“We are still investigating the facts. I am committed to getting to the bottom of what happened in this particular matter, as well as reviewing our processes for responding to information that we receive from the public," Wray said in the statement. "It’s up to all Americans to be vigilant, and when members of the public contact us with concerns, we must act properly and quickly."

He continued: "We have spoken with victims and families, and deeply regret the additional pain this causes all those affected by this horrific tragedy. All of the men and women of the FBI are dedicated to keeping the American people safe, and are relentlessly committed to improving all that we do and how we do it.”

"Under normal protocol, this information should have been provided to the Miami field office," FBI special agenst Robert Lasky said in a Friday afternoon press conference. "The FBI is still investigating the facts of this situation. We will conduct an in-depth review of our procedures."

Cruz reportedly had dozens of run-ins with law enforcement prior to Wednesday's shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High dating back to 2010. Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel said Friday that there were "20 calls for services in the last few years."

"Everyone of these calls for service will be looked at and scrutinized," he said.

Many 911 calls emanated from 80th Terrace St. in Parkland – the suburban address where the teenager lived with his younger brother, Zachary, and their adoptive mother, Lynda, BuzzFeed reported.

The calls – dating as far back as 2010 and continuing until November 2016 – shed a light on two erratic and violent boys who repeatedly “threw items,” were “out of control” and fought with their mother and each other on an apparently regular basis.

NIKOLAS CRUZ WAS LIVING WITH HS STUDENT IN MONTHS LEADING UP TO MASSACRE, ATTORNEY SAYS

Despite the repeated calls to authorities, Cruz was never arrested – and was basically cleared as being “no threat to anyone or himself,” as one therapist said in a police report from Sept. 28, 2016.

In that particular call, the sheriff’s office said Nikolas and his mother were fighting over paperwork needed for him to get an ID card. In their report, deputies detailed how the teen had been harming himself and had talked about buying a gun.

The therapist on scene, Jared Bienenfeld with Henderson Mental Health, and the deputies concluded there were “no signs of mental illness or criminal activity.”

TRUMP: 'SO MANY SIGNS' FLORIDA SHOOTING SUSPECT WAS 'MENTALLY DISTURBED'

According to reports, Cruz and his brother both suffered from mental health issues, including ADHD and OCD, and took medication as treatment. Cruz's lawyer said Thursday her client was "a broken human being" and the team was looking into an evaluation for autism.

Cruz was able to legally purchase the AR-15 he used in the mass shooting. Attorney Jim Lewis told the Sun-Sentinel that the teenager already owned the gun when he moved in with his friend’s family around Thanksgiving, after his mother's November death.

Cruz was expelled from Marjory Stoneman last year for “disciplinary problems,” with one report saying bullets were discovered in his backpack at one point.

FLORIDA HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL COACH WHO WAS SEEN SHIELDING STUDENTS FROM GUNFIRE DIES

"No other information was included in the comment which would indicate a particular time, location or the true identity of the person who posted the comment," the FBI said in a subsequent statement.

On Thursday, Florida Sen. Marco Rubio said it was "inexcusable" that the FBI had failed to follow protocols that could have prevented Wednesday's shooting.

"The fact that the FBI is investigating this failure is not enough. Both the House and Senate need to immediately initiate their own investigations into the FBI’s protocols for ensuring tips from the public about potential killers are followed through," the Republican senator said in a statement.

Also Friday: Florida Gov. Rick Scott called for Wray to resign. "We constantly promote ‘see something, say something,’ and a courageous person did just that to the FBI," Scott said in a statement. "And the FBI failed to act. ‘See something, say something’ is an incredibly important tool and people must have confidence in the follow through from law enforcement. The FBI Director needs to resign."

"The potential for the FBI to miss something is always there," Lasky said. "We will be looking into where and how the protocol broke down."

Cruz was charged with 17 counts of premeditated murder on Thursday and is being held without bail.

Many folk here have been feeling like most in this thread, like a dark cloud has gone over our hearts. I listen to both liberal and conservative media and the vibe is the same across. Nobody wants this to continue, but the road to correcting this epidemic is going to be long and complicated...

As I've mentioned before, there are states that are already strict with gun laws, and all it's done is cause a jump in a crime overall. But, the gun control issue is only a small part of it... it's an easy thing to blame, which is our gun culture, but there is also an impending mental health crisis... this is pretty obvious given the toxic nature of our politics, the amount of rage that is being vented into online and the nature that most people "handle" (i'd say "mishandle") their social media and how they conduct themselves in our society. I think much of the West is dealing with this actually. We can't just ask for more authorities to police us, we have to some degree police ourselves and each other... right now the solution seems to be retweets and Facebook likes, but that's faux social engagement. It's a placebo, not really a fix.

America needs an intervention, and I think the psych facilities--as much scandal as there was associated with running them (and there will always be scandals with any public institution... sadly...), they should return.

I think a vast majority of the reason they do not return to having public facilities is because nobody wants the inevitable **** stain that will be on their policy record when they are brought back. It would be expensive to run correctly and if done too inexpensively or poorly administrated, there would be a nightmare of public outcry when the inevitable scandals and medical abuses do occur with lower-paid contractors... we already see this with the hospitals, jails and nursing homes when they take shortcuts.

We are having that issue with our local jails with one of the largest mental health facilities in the country. Those local authorities would be more than ecstatic to move them to a private contract rather than deal with them directly. That will likely never happen though, because nobody wants to face that issue head-on. I fear though what that would look like if they moved those facilities to contracting.

We've had three Sheriffs now and all three are doing what they can with the funding they have and have setup mental health training for all their officers (which my husband helped to build the state program for), but society asks for a solution... and none are willing to pay the money or cut spending in other programs in order to to create these solutions, so we are stuck with the bare minimum...

Many do seem to think outlawing guns (and this is by no means a small group) or establishing more infrastructure, or more laws, or more money to XYZ useless committee... when actually, I think the money would be best spent on improving mental health training in schools and having our mental health system build back to where it used to be. If we had to choose between the two, I'd pick mental health.

None of this will be addressed yet because we haven't even tackled Obamacare and the issues there. And these are not the only issues in our country where the buck has been passed for a generation or so now and that's part of the reason these crisises are occuring non-stop... and it seems like to tackle one thing, we have to tackle another thing.

I think it's also nonsensical to keep putting more and more responsibility on the Criminal Justice system. It's no wonder this is breaking down, because too much of society is put onto law enforcement to solve all our issues, and yet... also to adjust to resolve racism and inequality as well now? It shouldn't be a solution to all our issues. The more roles we give this system, the more it will strain those systems and may even lead to the kind of police state (or criminal epidemic) that most people would rather we avoid. In some cities, it already has...

Parents should be able to sign a form to have a child committed, especially if it's after numerous phone-calls to the police and they are having a difficult time keeping them under control. That would avoid the calls. They should be able to obtain paperwork to keep them from owning for sure and that should be given when they enter a facility to the parent. This will flag a lot of people during application process for carries as well... so they probably wouldn't be approved with that type of history even if they do manage to get approval again.

Anyway, I could keep going... but there are many issues in our country that need solving. And nothing that our current administration and Congress seems capable of handling without immature pandering... This year we will be possibly losing the Republican majority and may end up with a Senate that is red and a House that is blue as typically happens during midterms... and so that will possibly mean more gridlock... and if we get a blue Congress, then that shall also be interesting, because Trump is able to veto everything that comes from Congress. His Twitter is already trollish... his account might actually burn a hole into the universe if the Republicans somehow lose the majority in both houses and the Russian investigation gets into full swing. I'm trying not to think about the midterms tqbh.

[Alf]

Apparently a witness was interviewd on TV and claimed that there was another shooter other than the arrested guy. And Barbara has some questions.

Youtube video

[bots]

passing a law one way or another isn't going to change anything though, so blaming governments for not implementing gun control doesn't achieve anything.

There is no simple solution. It requires a raft of measures first of which should be to protect the communities effectively. Once communities are protected, there is little point in having a gun, so why bother. It will regulate itself once the other measures are in place

[Alf]

These evil cowards only go for no guns zones, if there was the chance of retaliation, they wouldn't contemplate it. They're cowards who target defenceless people. Mentally sick. No law can stop that.

[Northern Monkey]

No president would ever attempt to actually ban guns.The only thing vaguely possible would be stricter controls on purchasing them.
To ban them would mean having to try and disarm the population which would probably end up with the bloodiest civil war in history.Guns are in Americas DNA.