[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Elliot

I hope the central focus of this debate isn’t whether a 9 year old can realise his sexuality and instead this absurd hostile culture of bullying in schools which is ruining the mental health and even lives of millions of school kids and how schools aren’t adequalty dealing with it

how do you know where the bullying happened?

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Elliot

I hope the central focus of this debate isn’t whether a 9 year old can realise his sexuality and instead this absurd hostile culture of bullying in schools which is ruining the mental health and even lives of millions of school kids and how schools aren’t adequalty dealing with it

It's a discussion and the why's and wherefors are an important part of the whole discussion.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Elliot

I hope the central focus of this debate isn’t whether a 9 year old can realise his sexuality and instead this absurd hostile culture of bullying in schools which is ruining the mental health and even lives of millions of school kids and how schools aren’t adequalty dealing with it

I think all the factors should be discussed when something this tragic and unusual for a person of that age happens. If nothing else to help prevent something like this from happening again. Are young children over exposed to things they shouldn't even being thinking about yet for example. Too much access to social media and that kind of thing

[Alf]

The mother has done an interview on CNN.

I'll let Arista post the video, I don't touch CNN, I might catch something!

[Maru]

I get where jaxie is coming from.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Maru

I get where jaxie is coming from.

Thanks Maru. And thanks for the link in your post, very interesting read.

I have wondered in this case if the parents encouraged the child to out himself as the story seems rather strange and the child too young to understand and express sexuality. As Ammi said, assumptions can be made, and assumptions can be wrong. I doubt many nine year olds understand what sexuality is, let alone being able to claim their own. Children go through so many changes and little girls particularly will often have strong crushes on other girls and women they admire at this age but grow up to be hetrosexual.

People can get it wrong, specially if they are parents who think their child may be gay at such a young age and it's not the appropriate age for this discussion beyond understanding your child and their needs and trying to encourage them that they are loved and special whoever they end up growing up to love. I have known boys and girls with a preference for the toys that are considered more appropriate for the opposite sex by society and this has no bearing on their sexuality later on. I have known a very camp man who was completely hetrosexual.

I suppose what I am saying is people do not necessarily fit into categories or into boxes, particularly at such a young age. We change, things change and children should be encouraged to be who they are without being categorised.

This is a very sad case with a child who must have been very unhappy.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Maru

I get where jaxie is coming from.

Congrats, still doesn't really make what she said any clearer though.

Coming out isn't a way to force celebrities to reveal their truths. It's something that almost all LGBT people have to do at some point in their lives. It's gross to paint what is essentially someone accepting themselves and deciding to share it with the people they love as something dark and not good and that kind of attitude comes with connotations.

Sometimes coming out costs people in the end but the whole point of it is that it helps the person in question truly accept who they are.

Originally Posted by jaxie

Thanks Maru. And thanks for the link in your post, very interesting read.

I have wondered in this case if the parents encouraged the child to out himself as the story seems rather strange and the child too young to understand and express sexuality. As Ammi said, assumptions can be made, and assumptions can be wrong. I doubt many nine year olds understand what sexuality is, let alone being able to claim their own. Children go through so many changes and little girls particularly will often have strong crushes on other girls and women they admire at this age but grow up to be hetrosexual.

People can get it wrong, specially if they are parents who think their child may be gay at such a young age and it's not the appropriate age for this discussion beyond understanding your child and their needs and trying to encourage them that they are loved and special whoever they end up growing up to love. I have known boys and girls with a preference for the toys that are considered more appropriate for the opposite sex by society and this has no bearing on their sexuality later on. I have known a very camp man who was completely hetrosexual.

I suppose what I am saying is people do not necessarily fit into categories or into boxes, particularly at such a young age. We change, things change and children should be encouraged to be who they are without being categorised.

This is a very sad case with a child who must have been very unhappy.

I think you're trying to minimalise the issue here and change focus. This story is not about whether or not the child was gay or not, he said he was and he was bullied for it, that's what matters here. I think it's utterly disgusting to see that people's first response is not to blame the bullies but to look at the parents and make out they forced choices on their kids with no evidence suggesting so because the kid happened to be gay.

As Oliver has said, the story comes down to a boy being different and being bullied to death because of it.

[Crimson Dynamo]

If the mother let her son go to school to announce to all he was gay at 9 years old then I would lay a lot of blame at her feet

[Tom4784]

Yup, blame the mother and excuse the homophobia.....

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Yup, blame the mother and excuse the homophobia.....

i like top see the bigger picture rather just get out a pitchfork

[Maru]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

i like top see the bigger picture rather just get out a pitchfork

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Well, no. You'd rather scapegoat the mother rather than place blame on the homophobic bullying that took place.

We live in a society that doesn't agree on just about anything, and a large part of that is due to our diversity. In this case, intellectual diversity also applies. Emotional arguments and guilt-tripping doesn't work with people because not everyone will share that particular motive and thus not likely to be empathetic. What we're proposing requires that everyone behave and think the same way, which is never going to be realistic in any group setting...

As was suggested by the mother, rather than focus on empty promises that society will change and that we will all come to believe the same thing in due time, a 9/yo shouldn't have been encouraged to share their life story so young without at least being prepared for any potential blow-back .. suicide is a pretty extreme reaction and I think very doubtful this happened overnight. It's possible too they were bullied massively for years prior, but don't we think it's a bit weird it occurred after only four days of bullying... her words about her son feeling terrified were quite heartbreaking, as so clearly there was something going wrong that was unfortunately missed.

I think as jaxie mentioned, the concern here is whether the parents in the background maybe inadvertently encouraged them to continue making it the issue with their peers by giving them empty phrases such "You should never be ashamed and hide your sexuality, etc..."... which to me is very bad advice... of course we should use discretion with who we tell our most private details to? That would be mad in a school setting where kids are nearing their terrible teens.

Our culture encourages exhibitionism and oversharing of various opinions (not just sexuality) which has led to a lot of ill effects in society in terms of many parents allowing our younger generations to become mouthpieces for "change"... whether intentional or not, that is our fault. It has always been the responsibility of older/wise folk to set the standard, not the young... they're still in formative years and they can't yet cope with all the complications and stressors of being in various social settings... we don't know what the mother did/didn't teach their child, but clearly they weren't emotionally equipped to handle 4 days of homophobic bullying, if that is to be the actual cause...

I should never have to feel I should withhold my spiritual & political views either, but sadly that's part of becoming a member of society and having to deal with a group. I will be exposed to opinions that disagree with my own POV. We have to discern who we share our time and energy with. Learning that lesson is quite important, and much more liberating than the current mantra(s) passed as empowerment. Things like labels and check-boxes only really matter when we start to operate and think independence of the group... but taking ownership of some of those trickier labels can sometimes take a lifetime of development and ownership.

TLDR: Loudly exclaiming our personal views & leanings to most everyone we meet does not equal self-acceptance. In fact, intentional or not, oversharing (as in too many details, not just his sexuality) can come off as being emotionally needy in a group setting which may lead to alienation... and when a child is still developing, they're still quite naive. It's important parents be mindful that while their child can be the kindest, sweetest, well-mannered individual, they won't necessarily be accepted by everyone the way they maybe deserve. It also doesn't mean they yet have the social skills and the emotional understanding to comprehend the diffused/mixed reaction they may receive at revealing such details... there's various factors that could've led to their suicide I think, but the parents are the only real control in this situation. Who we blame is irrelevant to suicide prevention.

[Tom4784]

Well, no. You'd rather scapegoat the mother rather than place blame on the homophobic bullying that took place.

[Redway]

As sad as this story is how does a 9-year-old already have an established sexuality?

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Redway

As sad as this story is how does a 9-year-old already have an established sexuality?

I don't think a whole lot is truly "established" until we're into our 20's... and even then, some things can still change ...