[Livia]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

Well i mean other than it being ridiculously unfair the main concern i think should be safety.Safety should trump hurty feelz.
Womens safety is put at risk in team sports and combat sports(i can’t even believe mtf were allowed to get in the ring with biological females ever).

It can’t just carry on until a woman is seriously injured or killed.

The only possible solution imo is seperate categories.I can’t possibly think of a better solution.

Monkey's arrived with all the sense. x

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

The only possible solution imo is seperate categories. I can’t possibly think of a better solution.

"I think we should set up a multi-year focus group to look into this issue and think about the best way forward and possible inclusive solutions."

"Oh wait, there's no point because someone on TiBB couldn't think of a better solution in the time it took to read the SD thread about it."


Come on Monkey. You can't possibly be suggesting that because you can't ponder out another solution in 5 minutes, there definitely isn't one.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

"I think we should set up a multi-year focus group to look into this issue and think about the best way forward and possible inclusive solutions."

"Oh wait, there's no point because someone on TiBB couldn't think of a better solution in the time it took to read the SD thread about it."


Come on Monkey. You can't possibly be suggesting that because you can't ponder out another solution in 5 minutes, there definitely isn't one.

True i’m no expert on this topic(or any).All i have is my opinion and that is it.

The focus group is a good idea and most likely similar to what will happen.
Hopefully with many knowledgeable experts.

I still don’t think they will come up with a better solution.
I mean what is there other than handicapping(which will still have the effect of ‘othering’) or future medical advances.
It may be a case of separate categories in the short term until some kind of technology is invented.
In combat sports with regard handicapping what could possibly be done now to even the playing field of a person who has gone through male puberty punching a biological woman repeatedly in the head?Maybe tie one arm behind their back?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

True i’m no expert on this topic(or any).All i have is my opinion and that is it.

The focus group is a good idea and most likely similar to what will happen.
Hopefully with many knowledgeable experts.

I still don’t think they will come up with a better solution.
I mean what is there other than handicapping(which will still have the effect of ‘othering’) or future medical advances.
It may be a case of separate categories in the short term until some kind of technology is invented.
In combat sports with regard handicapping what could possibly be done now to even the playing field of a person who has gone through male puberty punching a biological woman repeatedly in the head?Maybe tie one arm behind their back?

Allow drugs and bionic enhancements for all, completely negate the physical advantage of being male because everyone has synthetic muscle mass or hydraulic limbs anyway. Completely unethical but wildly entertaining?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Allow drugs and bionic enhancements for all, completely negate the physical advantage of being male because everyone has synthetic muscle mass or hydraulic limbs anyway. Completely unethical but wildly entertaining?

Seems like 90% of athletes do that nowadays anyway, atleast it would make it fair for those poor ones who don't

Speaking of which I rewatched Dodgeball the other day, Lance Armstrongs camio and preachy script is so funny to watch now the truth has come out about him

[Alf]

Let me be your fantasy! (woman)

Can't wait for the boxing.

[Vicky.]

Sport is segregated by sex for good reason. People should compete with those of their own sex really. And no, this does not mean transmen will have to compete with female people because basically, if they are on testosterone they are doping. If they are not doping, then there is no issue with them competing with females...but honestly they can compete with men if they want as the advantage is not there the other way.

I actually think a fairly decent solution is to have female sport, and 'other'. Transwomen, nor transmen will have a natural advantage over men. Can't see that going down very well though.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Sport is segregated by sex for good reason. People should compete with those of their own sex really. And no, this does not mean transmen will have to compete with female people because basically, if they are on testosterone they are doping. If they are not doping, then there is no issue with them competing with females...but honestly they can compete with men if they want as the advantage is not there the other way.

I actually think a fairly decent solution is to have female sport, and 'other'. Transwomen, nor transmen will have a natural advantage over men. Can't see that going down very well though.

Well one thing I thought was that the categories could just be... like... "Everyone", and then separate leagues for JUST biological women, but does that not seem a bit... patronising?

By which I mean, literally anyone could try compete in the "main" league (including any female who wants to), and then a separate league for those who don't feel able to compete in the main league. I don't know how to make this sound good TBF.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Well one thing I thought was that the categories could just be... like... "Everyone", and then separate leagues for JUST biological women, but does that not seem a bit... patronising?

By which I mean, literally anyone could try compete in the "main" league (including any female who wants to), and then a separate league for those who don't feel able to compete in the main league. I don't know how to make this sound good TBF.

Its awkward to talk about for sure, but I think my 'solution' is pretty much the same as yours

The only thing I am sure of in this is that its pretty undeniable males have an advantage over females, and allowing males into female sport basically destroys female sport...so some solution needs to be brought up fast!

A female league for females who want to compete on an even level...but females could also enter the 'other' if they chose...I can't see any woman ever winning in that section though because, biology. But the choice is there, and it does not disadvantage blokes. Win win, surely?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

A female league for females who want to compete on an even level...but females could also enter the 'other' if they chose...I can't see any woman ever winning in that section though because, biology. But the choice is there, and it does not disadvantage blokes. Win win, surely?

Depends on the sport, surely... e.g. I've never really understood why there are male and female events for things like precision shooting at the olympics . Same with darts, snooker, I think even chess championships are divided by gender? Can't really figure out why when it comes to those.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Depends on the sport, surely... e.g. I've never really understood why there are male and female events for things like precision shooting at the olympics . Same with darts, snooker, I think even chess championships are divided by gender? Can't really figure out why when it comes to those.

Some stuff doesn't need to be segregated. I *think* also extreme long distance running is about the only physical thing women would beat men at physically. Not sure on that though, just something in my head for some reason and have not checked.

Never really understood why darts and shooting and stuff is sex segregated. But anything thats basically pure power/strength, the blokes tend to have it Yet saying this is controversial apparently.

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Depends on the sport, surely... e.g. I've never really understood why there are male and female events for things like precision shooting at the olympics . Same with darts, snooker, I think even chess championships are divided by gender? Can't really figure out why when it comes to those.

Women do play darts with men, they were in the PDC World championships in December for the first time.

The best female player in the world, Lisa Ashton was knocked out by average male player Jan Decker in the first round, the other female in it, Dobromislova, also knocked out in the first round by an average male player.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Well one thing I thought was that the categories could just be... like... "Everyone", and then separate leagues for JUST biological women, but does that not seem a bit... patronising?

By which I mean, literally anyone could try compete in the "main" league (including any female who wants to), and then a separate league for those who don't feel able to compete in the main league. I don't know how to make this sound good TBF.

Erm... yeah, the ten tonne bodybuilder versus the skinny woman with a missing leg. The "everyone" category really works.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Erm... yeah, the ten tonne bodybuilder versus the skinny woman with a missing leg. The "everyone" category really works.

Well why not

[Cherie]

I don't know why anyone would have an issue with a male and female trans category

[Alf]

Russia would do anything to win medals, this is right up their street.

[chuff me dizzy]

Of course they have a massive advantage !they are men when you peel away with surgery

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

Of course they have a massive advantage !they are men when you peel away with surgery

No surgery is required. Just lowering testosterone for a year. And McKinnon (who set this argument off) reckons even thats unfair and transwomen should not even have to lower that..because, testosterone does not give an advantage Seriously. McKinnon is ****ing nuts. Watching them explode all over twitter calling near everyone a transphobe is hilarious really. About time the issue was properly dragged into the sunlight though, I do wonder how many male bodied women will be in the next Olympics..'technically' its been allowed since 2004 but surgery was a requirement then..thats been removed recently. Only seems to be a few males taking advantage though, but that will change fairly quickly, esp with the likes of Russia.

[Northern Monkey]

With the ridiculous amount of substances banned by the IOC(not all performance enhancing either) i’m very surprised that the use of synthetic oestrogens are allowed tbh.They are still hormones afterall.