[Livia]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

A fish stinks from the head, and I think there's certainly a lot of antisemitism in Labour right now, but I don't think the party is "institutionally racist", especially when discounting the Corbyn crew

I do agree with that, it only really became a problem when Corbyn took over. And the Labour party's current stance emboldens anti-Semites... and so Jews are suffering more attacks year on year. It's being normalised.

[thesheriff443]

From the middle ground!.

Without doubt, there is, racism, sexism discrimination and corruption within all political parties within in the police within the army, in your place of work, pub, super market, basically it’s in every part of life.

You can pick a side but they are all the same just with different names.

[Vicky.]

From the guardian link..quite sure this is where I was getting mixed up

You don’t need to pay the full fee if you only want to vote in the Labour leadership election, however – for a one-off minimum fee of £3 you can become a “registered supporter” and will get a ballot paper. Those who have signed up as Labour party supporters through an affiliated organisation or union will also be entitled to vote.

Assumed only proper members could vote on that, so thought the membership fee was very low.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

From the guardian link..quite sure this is where I was getting mixed up



Assumed only proper members could vote on that, so thought the membership fee was very low.

Surely you get a badge as well for 3 quid.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

From the guardian link..quite sure this is where I was getting mixed up



Assumed only proper members could vote on that, so thought the membership fee was very low.

Only full members can vote in the Tory's leadership elections. Obviously Labour thinks differently these days.

[Livia]

I remember the "join the Labour party and vote in the leadership election for £3!" Lots of Labour supporters and supporters of other parties joined the Tories for the last leadership election, £25, hoping to vote. But you have to be a member for 3 months in the Tories before you're allowed to vote. I hear there were a lot of refunds requested.

[Nicky91]

i haven't said much of Labour, Corbyn in this thread

i don't support Labour with Corbyn as leader


i more like Labour like our dutch one my previous post on here had a lot of examples who we had as labour party leaders (some who ended up becoming our PM, or one time when Labour was a good allied party for the PM's party CDA, Ruud Lubbers's era)


and proof that our dutch labour isn't anti-semitic, well we had someone with jewish background as one of their leaders from 2010-2012 Job Cohen, who had that function joined with his role as mayor of amsterdam that time, he wasn't forced out, he left because he couldn't combine both roles and his heart belonged to amsterdam slightly more but he had brought his replacement for labour forward himself

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

i haven't said much of Labour, Corbyn in this thread

i don't support Labour with Corbyn as leader


i more like Labour like our dutch one my previous post on here had a lot of examples who we had as labour party leaders (some who ended up becoming our PM, or one time when Labour was a good allied party for the PM's party CDA, Ruud Lubbers's era)


and proof that our dutch labour isn't anti-semitic, well we had someone with jewish background as one of their leaders from 2010-2012 Job Cohen, who had that function joined with his role as mayor of amsterdam that time, he wasn't forced out, he left because he couldn't combine both roles and his heart belonged to amsterdam slightly more but he had brought his replacement for labour forward himself

Our Labour had Milliband up to 2015. And other prominent Jewish politicians
So I dont know if this is relevant way of judging anything

[Nicky91]

also thinking of a left wing party as anti-semitic when it's usually the more far right ones who are anti-semitic

for example that one far right party in Greece called ''Golden Dawn'' they even have a upside down nazi-Germany flag as their logo and they are currently 3rd as for popular political parties in Greece

golden dawn ideology

''neo-nazism''
''antisemitism''
''anti-turkish''
''islamophobia''


or here, the murder of one rapper in Greece who was very much against neo-nazi's of golden dawn

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Pavlos_Fyssas

he was murdered by a member of golden dawn

and if you think police should anything about them

Golden Dawn had very good relations and contacts with officers of the force, on and off duty, as well as with rank and file police.
The police provided the group with batons and radio communications equipment during mass demonstrations, mainly during celebrations of the Athens Polytechnic uprising and during rallies by left-wing and anarchist groups, in order to provoke riots.
Periandros and the group's connections with the force largely delayed his arrest.
Periandros's brother, also a member of Golden Dawn, was a security escort of an unnamed New Democracy MP.
Many Golden Dawn members were illegally carrying an assortment of weapons.

bit offtopic i know, but my point is there can be moans about labour and corbyn but there are far worse political parties out there, far more racist

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

also thinking of a left wing party as anti-semitic when it's usually the more far right ones who are anti-semitic

for example that one far right party in Greece called ''Golden Dawn'' they even have a upside down nazi-Germany flag as their logo and they are currently 3rd as for popular political parties in Greece

golden dawn ideology

''neo-nazism''
''antisemitism''
''anti-turkish''
''islamophobia''


or here, the murder of one rapper in Greece who was very much against neo-nazi's of golden dawn

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Pavlos_Fyssas

he was murdered by a member of golden dawn

and if you think police should anything about them




bit offtopic i know, but my point is there can be moans about labour and corbyn but there are far worse political parties out there, far more racist

But Labour is a mainstream party and as such must be all-inclusive.
That's why the inquiry is needed to address the wrongs and provide a basis for changes to be made in order to avoid any repeats of discrimination.

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

But Labour is a mainstream party and as such must be all-inclusive.
That's why the inquiry is needed to address the wrongs and provide a basis for changes to be made in order to avoid any repeats of discrimination.

same as Golden Dawn but they are more international since they want to expand globally

also they seem to be above the law since they got friends in greek national police department

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

But Labour is a mainstream party and as such must be all-inclusive.
That's why the inquiry is needed to address the wrongs and provide a basis for changes to be made in order to avoid any repeats of discrimination.

It goes way beyond simple discrimination..it is filled with hate and comes from a very very dark place..and must at all costs be stopped.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by parmnion

It goes way beyond simple discrimination..it is filled with hate and comes from a very very dark place..and must at all costs be stopped.

If it does it will be stopped. That's the purpose of the inquiry.

Now who I wonder will investigate far right and neonazis?

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

Now who I wonder will investigate far right and neonazis?

Neither currently have any real political power, so who would be investigated?

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

If it does it will be stopped. That's the purpose of the inquiry.

Now who I wonder will investigate far right and neonazis?

Roger cook?

He did it way back when I was a youngster, I'm sorry but it's labours turn now..same ****...different invistagive journalist...you, Twosugars. ..just like many many many right wing thugs in the 70s 80s and Rogers 90s are in denial.

[smudgie]

Big can of worms opened.
Now it’s going to court, those who spoke out against the whistle blowers are being sued for deformation of character.
This isn’t going away anytime soon.

[Livia]

The Observer view: Labour leadership is complicit in antisemitism

The Panorama programme revealed a toxic culture that merely reforming the party’s processes will not solve

‘It absolutely breaks my heart to say, but I do not think the Labour party is a safe space for Jewish people any more.” Thus spoke Izzy Lenga, a Labour member interviewed in last week’s Panorama documentary on antisemitism in the party. Her words echo sentiments expressed by many Jewish MPs, members and supporters in recent months, and are a dreadful indictment of Labour’s failure to confront and root out antisemitism within its ranks.

The documentary brought to light fresh allegations about interference from Jeremy Corbyn’s office in disciplinary procedures supposed to be independent of the party’s leadership. It found that, as recently as this spring, 1,000 complaints about antisemitism had yet to be dealt with, and so far only 15 people have been expelled as a result. But the most powerful moments of the programme were in the brave testimony of party members and staff who spoke of their experience of dealing with antisemitism and its impact on their mental health.


Full article:
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-jeremy-corbyn

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Livia

The Observer view: Labour leadership is complicit in antisemitism

The Panorama programme revealed a toxic culture that merely reforming the party’s processes will not solve

‘It absolutely breaks my heart to say, but I do not think the Labour party is a safe space for Jewish people any more.” Thus spoke Izzy Lenga, a Labour member interviewed in last week’s Panorama documentary on antisemitism in the party. Her words echo sentiments expressed by many Jewish MPs, members and supporters in recent months, and are a dreadful indictment of Labour’s failure to confront and root out antisemitism within its ranks.

The documentary brought to light fresh allegations about interference from Jeremy Corbyn’s office in disciplinary procedures supposed to be independent of the party’s leadership. It found that, as recently as this spring, 1,000 complaints about antisemitism had yet to be dealt with, and so far only 15 people have been expelled as a result. But the most powerful moments of the programme were in the brave testimony of party members and staff who spoke of their experience of dealing with antisemitism and its impact on their mental health.


Full article:
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-jeremy-corbyn

All these people, who are not only Jewish but part of the Labour party, just don't understand or have the right insight ... they need to spend more time on internet forums to help them properly understand the situation. Until then, their experience means nothing!

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

All these people, who are not only Jewish but part of the Labour party, just don't understand or have the right insight ... they need to spend more time on internet forums to help them properly understand the situation. Until then, their experience means nothing!

Way to go Oliver, sometimes it does come across as some people think they actually know more than the people involved ,

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Way to go Oliver, sometimes it does come across as some people think they actually know more than the people involved ,

Just what do you mean by that.

The Labour Party is involved, I am a Labour party member.
I canvass and work voluntarily along with many Jewish members of the Party too.

I and others listen to the concerns of those leaving the Party.
The party has an investigation going on.
What more do you want,????

Those involved.
What are you on about.
The Jewish community feeling any antisemitism have to have their grievances dealt with.

However, with a complainant there is also those accused.
Who also have the right to be heard.

This investigation WILL hear all sides.
Whose not involved in your eyes.
Labour party members are very much involved actually.
It's our party too.

Are you saying they shouldn't be??

[Beso]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Just what do you mean by that.

The Labour Party is involved, I am a Labour party member.
I canvass and work voluntarily along with many Jewish members of the Party too.

I and others listen to the concerns of those leaving the Party.
The party has an investigation going on.
What more do you want,????

Those involved.
What are you on about.
The Jewish community feeling any antisemitism have to have their grievances dealt with.

However, with a complainant there is also those accused.
Who also have the right to be heard.

This investigation WILL hear all sides.
Whose not involved in your eyes.
Labour party members are very much involved actually.
It's our party too.

Are you saying they shouldn't be??

Can I ask a question joey please?

Ignore it if you want.

But what will you do if this is not dealt with appropriatly?

And as a canvasser what is your response to people on thier doorsteps when they bring this up?

[bots]

Labour should listen "to the message" rather than "going for the messengers" when it comes to anti-Semitism, the shadow foreign secretary has said.

The party has insisted claims aired by BBC Panorama were inaccurate and made by "disaffected" former staff.

But Emily Thornberry told Andrew Marr "nobody can pretend there isn't an ongoing problem" within Labour.

Jewish Labour MP Dame Margaret Hodge said the party was at "a tipping point" on the issue.

"If the leadership doesn't start to listen now there will be many more people who will feel so uncomfortable within the Labour Party that they can no longer remain," she told Sky News.

Dame Margaret also said it was "intolerable and unacceptable" for the party leadership to attack those who went public with concerns.

Labour has been engulfed in a long-running dispute over anti-Semitism within its ranks, which has led nine MPs and three peers to leave the party.

Last week Panorama revealed claims from a number of former party officials that some of Jeremy Corbyn's closest allies tried to interfere in disciplinary processes involving allegations of anti-Semitism.

Labour's disputes team is supposed to operate independently from the party's political structures, including the leader's office.

'Shame and disgrace'
Ms Thornberry said she found the Panorama episode "awful" - both the programme itself and "more importantly the revelations".

She said she understood the party had concerns about how the investigation was done, but told Andrew Marr: "I think that we shouldn't be going for the messengers, we should be looking at the message. I think that is what is important."

She said it was "a shame and a disgrace" that the Equality and Human Rights Commission had been brought in to investigate Labour over anti-Semitism - "but they have and we should welcome it".

She said the party should be asking the commission: "Can you help us?"


Labour has rejected claims of interference in its disciplinary processes and described the Panorama programme as "seriously inaccurate" and "politically one-sided".

In a statement, it said: "Since Jennie Formby became general secretary the rate at which anti-Semitism cases have been dealt with has increased more than fourfold.

"We will build on the improvements to our procedures made under Jennie Formby, and continue to act against this repugnant form of racism."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48981120

[AnnieK]

Political leanings aside, there clearly is an issue or else it would not have been investigated by the EHRC if there wasn't real problems. There will be issues in every political party I am sure but right now the focus is on Labour and the investigation will obviously draw unbiased conclusions and issues will hopefully be rectified as far as possible.

I don't think saying that some Jews have no issues and others do helps either. If one person feels discriminated against, that needs to be sorted. No-one should feel in 2019 that there is a problem because of race, religion, sex, sexual orientation. Obviously some Jewish members have an issue so an investigation by an external body is the right way to go to eradicate the problem as far as possible.

I would.imagine this investigation will lead to others across all parties and I'm all in favour of that. Transparency is the key and tbf, most labour supporters I know are welcoming this investigation as they don't want this issue tarring their party further.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

Political leanings aside, there clearly is an issue or else it would not have been investigated by the EHRC if there wasn't real problems. There will be issues in every political party I am sure but right now the focus is on Labour and the investigation will obviously draw unbiased conclusions and issues will hopefully be rectified as far as possible.

I don't think saying that some Jews have no issues and others do helps either. If one person feels discriminated against, that needs to be sorted. No-one should feel in 2019 that there is a problem because of race, religion, sex, sexual orientation. Obviously some Jewish members have an issue so an investigation by an external body is the right way to go to eradicate the problem as far as possible.

I would.imagine this investigation will lead to others across all parties and I'm all in favour of that. Transparency is the key and tbf, most labour supporters I know are welcoming this investigation as they don't want this issue tarring their party further.

100% agree there Anne

[Livia]

I see the Whistleblowers who took part in the Panorama programme are suing Labour. Now that will be interesting.