[Jessica.]

Stop pretending that you care about fairness in sports when that is one of the least relevant parts of the conversation. If that was the only problem people had with trans women then there wouldn't be the same transphobia over and over on the forum. Yes, calling a transwoman a man is transphobia.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Jessica.

Stop pretending that you care about fairness in sports when that is one of the least relevant parts of the conversation. If that was the only problem people had with trans women then there wouldn't be the same transphobia over and over on the forum. Yes, calling a transwoman a man is transphobia.

There's nastiness associated with any debate. Not really a reason to shout down any discussion on it.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Jessica.

Stop pretending that you care about fairness in sports when that is one of the least relevant parts of the conversation. If that was the only problem people had with trans women then there wouldn't be the same transphobia over and over on the forum. Yes, calling a transwoman a man is transphobia.

It's not just sports, but female spaces in general.

But sports is an example which is easy to understand, as males are (in general) stronger and faster than females, giving them an advantage.

[Captain.Remy]

Originally Posted by Jessica.

Stop pretending that you care about fairness in sports when that is one of the least relevant parts of the conversation. If that was the only problem people had with trans women then there wouldn't be the same transphobia over and over on the forum. Yes, calling a transwoman a man is transphobia.

And I couldn't have said it any better than you have.

It seems that lately it's always the threads about sexuality and gender that trigger the most heated conversations and obvious ignorance.

Some people really feel fragile and threatened when it comes to how others live their lives. Just move on and accept others for what they are, it really is not hard. Nobody is attacking or threatening you, just relax and love it.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Captain.Remy

And I couldn't have said it any better than you have.

It seems that lately it's always the threads about sexuality and gender that trigger the most heated conversations and obvious ignorance.

Some people really feel fragile and threatened when it comes to how others live their lives. Just move on and accept others for what they are, it really is not hard. Nobody is attacking or threatening you, just relax and love it.

The irony really is in how naive and ignorant this post is .

"Shut up women, your rights are not being attacked or threatened, just relax and love it".

Massively problematic.

[Captain.Remy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The irony really is in how naive and ignorant this post is .

"Shut up women, your rights are not being attacked or threatened, just relax and love it".

Massively problematic.

But their rights aren't being attacked though. From what I understood by reading, listening trans people, listening women themselves etc That's getting educated on certain topics that I'm not personally concerned with. I think that's fair to get interested in what others live and go through. And I'm not saying what others feel is not valid either.


It's always been proven that Trans rights are women’s rights too, one doesn't put at risk the others and I think it's a pity some people try to put these two against each other when things can be worked out. I always feel a little bit sad when I see feminists fighting with trans activists. It requires a lot of education and talking and really be aware to work it out.
I didn't mean any harm to anyone. If anything, I've always been a promoter of unisex toilets with solutions that come with them (because that seems to be the issue here), and equal rights for all.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Captain.Remy

But their rights aren't being attacked though. From what I understood by reading, listening trans people, listening women themselves etc That's getting educated on certain topics that I'm not personally concerned with. I think that's fair to get interested in what others live and go through. And I'm not saying what others feel is not valid either.


It's always been proven that Trans rights are women’s rights too, one doesn't put at risk the others and I think it's a pity some people try to put these two against each other when things can be worked out. I always feel a little bit sad when I see feminists fighting with trans activists. It requires a lot of education and talking and really be aware to work it out.
I didn't mean any harm to anyone. If anything, I've always been a promoter of unisex toilets with solutions that come with them (because that seems to be the issue here), and equal rights for all.

If someone thinks their rights are at risk, and you think otherwise, you need to explain why their fears are misplaced... carefully, in detail, and respecting those worries. "Lol no you are wrong, be quiet and relax" is dismissive at very best and yes I agree with Marsh, straight-up misogyny at worst. Massive conotations.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Captain.Remy

It's always been proven that Trans rights are women’s rights too, one doesn't put at risk the others

Transwomen being allowed into female spaces negates women's rights to have single sex spaces, so yeah, in that case their rights are in conflict.

[Josy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The irony really is in how naive and ignorant this post is .



"Shut up women, your rights are not being attacked or threatened, just relax and love it".



Massively problematic.

Exactly this.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Captain.Remy

And I couldn't have said it any better than you have.

It seems that lately it's always the threads about sexuality and gender that trigger the most heated conversations and obvious ignorance.

Some people really feel fragile and threatened when it comes to how others live their lives. Just move on and accept others for what they are, it really is not hard. Nobody is attacking or threatening you, just relax and love it.

Yet it seems this kind of condescending misogyny is acceptable.

Not.

[Captain.Remy]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Yet it seems this kind of condescending misogyny is acceptable.

Not.

I wasn't specifically talking about that issue in particular, but more so about the general feel I get lately on this forum that there's a lot of heated debates around that and how we still have a long way to go before completely accepting people for their genders and sexualities without judging them or making assumptions about who is who and who loves who and what. What I said is that it really can't be that hard to accept people for who they are. I mean, why the hatred ans refusal to get educated on this topic. That's the feel I got lately and I get it that not everybody shares that and I'm OK with that.

That's basically all I said and I wish everybody would be more open-minded and accepting of people that are marginalized and discriminated on.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Captain.Remy

I wasn't specifically talking about that issue in particular, but more so about the general feel I get lately on this forum that there's a lot of heated debates around that and how we still have a long way to go before completely accepting people for their genders and sexualities without judging them or making assumptions about who is who and who loves who and what. What I said is that it really can't be that hard to accept people for who they are. I mean, why the hatred ans refusal to get educated on this topic. That's the feel I got lately and I get it that not everybody shares that and I'm OK with that.

That's basically all I said and I wish everybody would be more open-minded and accepting of people that are marginalized and discriminated on.

I've literally never seen anyone on this forum do what you've said in the bit in bold there; any and all concerns I see are about how it affects single-sex spaces and sex segregated sports, and general concerns about how trans issues interact with already existing gender equality debates.

Valid and important debate issues and attempting to shut them down by accusing people who are interested in these issues of being transphobic, judgemental or uneducated is an extremebly dubious stance, and in my opinion, a quite deliberate shaming tactic or strawman. There's just no place for it in an actually educated debate, or anywhere outside outrage-culture.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Captain.Remy

I wasn't specifically talking about that issue in particular, but more so about the general feel I get lately on this forum that there's a lot of heated debates around that and how we still have a long way to go before completely accepting people for their genders and sexualities without judging them or making assumptions about who is who and who loves who and what. What I said is that it really can't be that hard to accept people for who they are. I mean, why the hatred ans refusal to get educated on this topic. That's the feel I got lately and I get it that not everybody shares that and I'm OK with that.

That's basically all I said and I wish everybody would be more open-minded and accepting of people that are marginalized and discriminated on.

Except there hasn't been any hatred. Not from the people actually engaging in the discussion, anyway.

This debate goes far far beyond "accepting differences, sexualities and genders". It's about how the rights of different people can come into conflict and can only be resolved by respecting and taking BOTH groups into account.

[Jessica.]

Originally Posted by Captain.Remy

And I couldn't have said it any better than you have.

It seems that lately it's always the threads about sexuality and gender that trigger the most heated conversations and obvious ignorance.

Some people really feel fragile and threatened when it comes to how others live their lives. Just move on and accept others for what they are, it really is not hard. Nobody is attacking or threatening you, just relax and love it.

Exactly, thank you!

[bots]

refusing to listen to the thoughts of one side of any debate and even worse accusing them falsely of hate crimes and spreading misinformation for having concerns, is a mirror of what Trump tried to achieve in America. Thought for the day.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

refusing to listen to the thoughts of one side of any debate and even worse accusing them falsely of hate crimes and spreading misinformation for having concerns, is a mirror of what Trump tried to achieve in America. Thought for the day.

.

[Novo]

Originally Posted by Captain.Remy

And I couldn't have said it any better than you have.

It seems that lately it's always the threads about sexuality and gender that trigger the most heated conversations and obvious ignorance.

Some people really feel fragile and threatened when it comes to how others live their lives. Just move on and accept others for what they are, it really is not hard. Nobody is attacking or threatening you, just relax and love it.

people do care about things like that though and its a huge topic because sports is a big deal to so many people around the world its not about being fragile its about giving women equal opportunity to compete with other biological women, why does that make anyone fragile or threatened in anyway? their are differences that you have to accept when it comes to things like that, no good turning a blind eye to it.

[Novo]

Originally Posted by Jessica.

Stop pretending that you care about fairness in sports when that is one of the least relevant parts of the conversation. If that was the only problem people had with trans women then there wouldn't be the same transphobia over and over on the forum. Yes, calling a transwoman a man is transphobia.

sports is highly relevant if you are passionate about it and even if you are not surely you would want a level playing ground for biological women and not to be done out of achievements because someone is biologically built different and allowed to compete in the field you are in

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Jessica.

Stop pretending that you care about fairness in sports when that is one of the least relevant parts of the conversation. If that was the only problem people had with trans women then there wouldn't be the same transphobia over and over on the forum. Yes, calling a transwoman a man is transphobia.

I literally have a female boxer as my avatar but I don't care about sports. How about you don't tell me what I do and do not care about because you clearly have no idea.

[Novo]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I literally have a female boxer as my avatar but I don't care about sports. How about you don't tell me what I do and do not care about because you clearly have no idea.

ah yes that awful FENIAN boxer isn't it




just kidding x

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Novo

ah yes that awful FENIAN boxer isn't it









just kidding x

Only the greatest female boxer there is, added bonus that she's also Irish

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Jessica.

Stop pretending that you care about fairness in sports when that is one of the least relevant parts of the conversation. If that was the only problem people had with trans women then there wouldn't be the same transphobia over and over on the forum. Yes, calling a transwoman a man is transphobia.

Sports is actually a prime example, apart from 'winning' there are lucrative sponsorship deals that come from being top in your field

also in the USA and TiBB loves the US, Scholarships are handed out to top atheletes

[Parmy]

Originally Posted by Jessica.

Stop pretending that you care about fairness in sports when that is one of the least relevant parts of the conversation. If that was the only problem people had with trans women then there wouldn't be the same transphobia over and over on the forum. Yes, calling a transwoman a man is transphobia.

Yeah but that person needs to realise that there are people out there who when meeting her for the first time may think she is a man. Once told people wont continue to refer to her as him.

[user104658]

When it comes to public toilets I am PERSONALLY still a massive advocate of unisex single-cubicles. More and more places have them and I think it's absolutely the way forward. In all honesty, I don't particularly like sharing bathroom space with ANYONE so I'm quite biased here.

Also, as the male parent of a female child with additional needs, they are a godsend. It wasn't so much of an issue when she was really little, but she's 8 now so I don't really want to troop her in past the grubby blokes at the urinals to a cubicle in a men's toilets... and I can't just wander on into the ladies with her... so if there isn't an available disabled toilet it becomes an issue. A few nearby shopping complexes/malls just have rows of individual locking bathrooms now and I love it. In the 21st century... I just can't see many good arguments to not make this "the norm" for toilets/changing areas/etc. Solves a multitude of very basic problems.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

When it comes to public toilets I am PERSONALLY still a massive advocate of unisex single-cubicles. More and more places have them and I think it's absolutely the way forward. In all honesty, I don't particularly like sharing bathroom space with ANYONE so I'm quite biased here.

Also, as the male parent of a female child with additional needs, they are a godsend. It wasn't so much of an issue when she was really little, but she's 8 now so I don't really want to troop her in past the grubby blokes at the urinals to a cubicle in a men's toilets... and I can't just wander on into the ladies with her... so if there isn't an available disabled toilet it becomes an issue. A few nearby shopping complexes/malls just have rows of individual locking bathrooms now and I love it. In the 21st century... I just can't see many good arguments to not make this "the norm" for toilets/changing areas/etc. Solves a multitude of very basic problems.

Tbh I never understood why there had to be public urinals, if I was a man I'd hate having to use them as there's literally no personal space . Cubicles are atleast more private . But urinals are too exposed.