[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by OnTheRight

I stopped giving when I found out £67,000 is going to a head of Diversity person.

Diversity is important - when you see the names and pictures of the fallen, it's ridiculous how over-represented white men are among them. This needs to be retroactively fixed

[Liam-]

A charity that needs donations to continue helping the people they cater to, create a way to earn more money to help those people, bloody gays spending their money to help a charity

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Liam-

A charity that needs donations to continue helping the people they cater to, create a way to earn more money to help those people, bloody gays spending their money to help a charity

Or... They alienate their regular donors by demonstrating one group is more special and needs its own, individual poppy.

[BBXX]

I think some people should remember it was only in 2000 the ban of homosexuals serving in the Army was lifted. Before that - just 24 years ago - it was illegal to be in the Army if you were gay.

What this means is that there were many, many gay people who gave their life for their country despite not being free to love who they wanted to. Many lived in secret and broke the law in order to fight for their country. Many were sent to prison.

This, to me, is a harmless and small way of acknowledging just how ****ed up that is and paying respects to the many gay men and women who fought for the British Army and still do.

Aside from the meaning behind it... does anyone else find it quite ugly?

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by BBXX

does anyone else find it quite ugly?

hm, that seems to be "a thing" with rainbow designs, they're really prone to uglifying.

Like the version of the Pride flag which has the additional coloured triangles is hideous, but the standard rainbow version is fine.

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

hm, that seems to be "a thing" with rainbow designs, they're really prone to uglifying.

Like the version of the Pride flag which has the additional coloured triangles is hideous, but the standard rainbow version is fine.

I agree - too many colours is always going to the reduce the aesthetic of something.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by BBXX

I think some people should remember it was only in 2000 the ban of homosexuals serving in the Army was lifted. Before that - just 24 years ago - it was illegal to be in the Army if you were gay.

What this means is that there were many, many gay people who gave their life for their country despite not being free to love who they wanted to. Many lived in secret and broke the law in order to fight for their country. Many were sent to prison.

This, to me, is a harmless and small way of acknowledging just how ****ed up that is and paying respects to the many gay men and women who fought for the British Army and still do.

Aside from the meaning behind it... does anyone else find it quite ugly?

Some people were killed outright and some suffered horrific wounds that were life changing. Some suffered mentally and continue to live a half life because what they saw and experienced changed their life irrevocably. Some leave the army and find it so hard to go back to ordinary life they end up on the streets. Being gay does not compound the suffering of those who've been in combat. There isn't a sliding scale of suffering according to your sexuality. The red poppy is for everyone who served regardless of age, ethnicity or sexual orientation. If gay organisations are concerned perhaps they can start their own organisation which caters only for one group.

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by Livia

Some people were killed outright and some suffered horrific wounds that were life changing. Some suffered mentally and continue to live a half life because what they saw and experienced changed their life irrevocably. Some leave the army and find it so hard to go back to ordinary life they end up on the streets. Being gay does not compound the suffering of those who've been in combat. There isn't a sliding scale of suffering according to your sexuality. The red poppy is for everyone who served regardless of age, ethnicity or sexual orientation. If gay organisations are concerned perhaps they can start their own organisation which caters only for one group.

I know all that. My point was squarely concentrated on the fact it was illegal to be gay while in the Army and so many people hid that aspect of their lives in order to serve for the country, so there is a complexity to the situation that doesn't exist with any other demographic and this could simply to acknowledge that. I.E: yes, we banned you from joining us because we were discriminatory, and we appreciate your resilience in working for us despite our discrimination.

It's also worth noting this isn't the only variation of the poppy there is. There are purple poppies for animals killed in war and black poppies to commemorate Black British soldiers.

I personally don't see the big deal.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by BBXX

I know all that. My point was squarely concentrated on the fact it was illegal to be gay while in the Army and so many people hid that aspect of their lives in order to serve for the country, so there is a complexity to the situation that doesn't exist with any other demographic and this could simply to acknowledge that. I.E: yes, we banned you from joining us because we were discriminatory, and we appreciate your resilience in working for us despite our discrimination.

It's also worth noting this isn't the only variation of the poppy there is. There are purple poppies for animals killed in war and black poppies to commemorate Black British soldiers.

I personally don't see the big deal.

Neither the black nor the purple poppy has anything to do with the Royal British Legion. They are provided by separate organisations and, like I suggested previously, if an LGBT organisation wanted to launch their own exclusive poppy I would have no problem with that, so long as the procedes benefit ex-service personnel. The red poppy is for everyone, without excluding anyone. So I don't see why people would want the RBL to single them out and make them a special case. The first black man to join the Guards in the 1980s suffered horrendous racism. I never heard it suggested the British Legion give him a special poppy.

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by Livia

Neither the black nor the purple poppy has anything to do with the Royal British Legion. They are provided by separate organisations and, like I suggested previously, if an LGBT organisation wanted to launch their own exclusive poppy I would have no problem with that, so long as the procedes benefit ex-service personnel. The red poppy is for everyone, without excluding anyone. So I don't see why people would want the RBL to single them out and make them a special case. The first black man to join the Guards in the 1980s suffered horrendous racism. I never heard it suggested the British Legion give him a special poppy.

While I don't see the LGBT poppy as a necessity, I can see why the RBL might want to offer a symbol of an apology of their previous discrimination as an organisation, that's all.

I don't see how creating a new, extra Poppy devalues the other one and therefore I personally don't see the issue either way. If it was replacing the standard poppy, well that's a different thing.