[TomC]

FFS the twat just won immunity

[TomC]

Oh the edit made it look like Gervase, Kelly, Colleen and Sean were gonna align

[MB.]

Without the twat, the show probably wouldn't still be on air 31 seasons later

[TomC]

why? he's a twat.

[MB.]

Because he's a twat who single-handedly changed the format of the show?

[TomC]

Originally Posted by MB.

Because he's a twat who single-handedly changed the format of the show?

What by forming alliances? Or are you referring to something I haven't seen yet?

[MB.]

Yes, by forming alliances - he introduced alliances to this show. Survivor was never supposed to be a strategy game. It was supposed to be an adventure show about 16 regular Americans marooned on an island, and nothing more. Thanks to Richard Hatch, it's much, much more. If you can't at least appreciate him for what he was and understand his cultural significance, then I highly doubt you'll enjoy the evolution of the show from this point on

[TomC]

Originally Posted by MB.

Yes, by forming alliances - he introduced alliances to this show. Survivor was never supposed to be a strategy game. It was supposed to be an adventure show about 16 regular Americans marooned on an island, and nothing more. Thanks to Richard Hatch, it's much, much more. If you can't at least appreciate him for what he was and understand his cultural significance, then I highly doubt you'll enjoy the evolution of the show from this point on

Was it actually just him who did that though? I mean, it was an alliance of four. I don't know how not liking one person, regardless of whether I appreciate the strategy he brought to the game (which I do) means I won't enjoy Survivor. What do you mean by that?

[Braden]

Borneo is probably my favourite season of Survivor, and RIchard is my favourite contestant of all-time to be completely honest.

Spoiler:

I definitely understand the argument that Richard was the person who paved the way for Survivor to evolve as we know it today, but I think the Tagi alliance as a whole were crucial in making the game 'a game'.

Richard was the integral part of the alliance and the main proponent because he was the person who eventually won, but the other three were pretty important too. Kelly acted as the perfect runner-up because she wanted to play an honest game, but the dynamic of the alliance prevented her from doing so and therefore she became an underdog. Her 'double-faced' ways were caught out by Sue Hawk who is legendary because of her bitter jury speech (though she was iconic based on her persona alone), which then went on to influence how the jury would work many times in the future. Rudy was the less signifcant counter-piece, but the alliance would not have worked without him and his relationship with Richard is note-worthy in terms of people aliging with those you wouldn't expect.

The pagonging was also important because it brought the first blindside (I suppose you could count the vote-offs before that but w/e none of them were as iconic) in Gretchen being voted off, and created the America's first sweetheart in Colleen Haskell. The opposition and their reaction to the Tagi alliance was compelling viewing.

[TomC]

What is in that spoiler tag? Cos i'm 90% sure I know who the final 2 are.

[Braden]

If spoil the winner and the runner-up, but it would be cool to look back once you've finished watching to see if you agree or not.

[MB.]

Oh yeah, I agree that there were so many elements of Borneo that helped to shape everything that came after it (well, maybe not Australian Outback, since they kinda openly tried to avoid repeating the last lot's strategy) and not just Richard, but I think it's important to think of him contextually less as the twat and more as the twat who helped launch a hit game show

He was the biggest villain in America at the time for being in an alliance, mind, so I suppose there's some justification in having that reaction for the first time 16 years on

[TomC]

Also I don't get how survivor 'wasn't meant to be strategic'. The format is to vote people off, and that alone would involve strategy...

[TomC]

Originally Posted by MB.

Oh yeah, I agree that there were so many elements of Borneo that helped to shape everything that came after it (well, maybe not Australian Outback, since they kinda openly tried to avoid repeating the last lot's strategy) and not just Richard, but I think it's important to think of him contextually less as the twat and more as the twat who helped launch a hit game show

He was the biggest villain in America at the time for being in an alliance, mind, so I suppose there's some justification in having that reaction for the first time 16 years on

I mean my dislike for him is completely separate to how he played the game, I just can't take to his personality.

[MB.]

Originally Posted by TomC

Also I don't get how survivor 'wasn't meant to be strategic'. The format is to vote people off, and that alone would involve strategy...

It's a fact that it was never supposed to have an outwardly strategic element - no alliances, no voting blocs, nothing. Look up any interview with Jeff or Mark Burnett and they'll tell you. They'd just never considered people would play it that way. The contestants were supposed to vote off the weakest, least suitable players etc (see: Sonja and BB being voted off for being old and annoying), not the biggest threats or the nicest people. The person most adapted to the island was supposed to win the million dollars. The Tagi alliance changed all of that, and is in my opinion the main reason why the show's still massive a decade and a half on (they don't call it the daddy of reality TV for nothing)

[TomC]

Originally Posted by MB.

It's a fact that it was never supposed to have an outwardly strategic element - no alliances, no voting blocs, nothing. Look up any interview with Jeff or Mark Burnett and they'll tell you. They'd just never considered people would play it that way. The contestants were supposed to vote off the weakest, least suitable players etc (see: Sonja and BB being voted off for being old and annoying), not the biggest threats or the nicest people. The person most adapted to the island was supposed to win the million dollars. The Tagi alliance changed all of that, and is in my opinion the main reason why the show's still massive a decade and a half on (they don't call it the daddy of reality TV for nothing)

Oh yeah I know that, I'm just being pedantic really and saying that surely picking off people like Sonja and BB is still 'strategic' as getting rid of weaker members strengthens your team.

[TomC]

Poor Kelly being ditched by Sean

[Braden]

Originally Posted by MB.

Oh yeah, I agree that there were so many elements of Borneo that helped to shape everything that came after it (well, maybe not Australian Outback, since they kinda openly tried to avoid repeating the last lot's strategy) and not just Richard, but I think it's important to think of him contextually less as the twat and more as the twat who helped launch a hit game show

He was the biggest villain in America at the time for being in an alliance, mind, so I suppose there's some justification in having that reaction for the first time 16 years on

Yeah, I personally don't understand why people dislike him. I found him very charming and the game-play he implemented throughout Borneo was iconic. I remember watching Borneo for the first time last year and seeing Richard just sit there and watch his tribemates without doing or saying anything. I wasn't sure if I was going to like him in the first episode, but he ended up being the perfect Survivor contestant in my opinion

Originally Posted by TomC

Oh yeah I know that, I'm just being pedantic really and saying that surely picking off people like Sonja and BB is still 'strategic' as getting rid of weaker members strengthens your team.

Yeah, you're both right in a sense because it was always a game. It's just the game was altered in a significant way because of the Tagi Four so I think a lot of people who love the show really respect the four of them in that sense. I understand from your subjective view why someone woud dislike Richard but I just found him to be like a fun Disney-like villain. There are other people on the forum who dislike Richard a lot so you're not alone

[TomC]

FCUKKKKKK I just found out who the winner of Season 2 is I am so annoyed That is like the main reason I wanted to watch another season, cos I wouldn't know anything about the boot order...

Is Season2 good?

[MB.]

Season 2's okay but I wouldn't say it's anywhere near as good as this one and there are better seasons following it, so you shouldn't worry too much if you decide to skip it (if you decide to watch any seasons with returning players at any point, though, you might want to go back over it just to familiarise yourself with some of the characters)

[Braden]

Originally Posted by TomC

FCUKKKKKK I just found out who the winner of Season 2 is I am so annoyed That is like the main reason I wanted to watch another season, cos I wouldn't know anything about the boot order...

Is Season2 good?

Australia starts of great but worsens towards the end in my opinion. It's still compelling viewing for a number of reasons though, and you get to experience Jerri Manthey for the first time

[TomC]

Hmmm... I mean I've enjoyed Season 1 a lot, and I still knew the F2 of that so idk. Does the format change at all in Season 2?

Also, when is the first All-Stars?

[MB.]

Yeah, and there are also some big moments in Australian Outback which might be referenced in future that you'll be confused by if you haven't watched it, so for general cultural reasons it may be good to:

Spoiler:

Skupin falling in the fire, Alicia vs. Kimmi/finger-wagging, the Tina/Colby final two being almost the polar opposite to Hatch/Kelly, etc

[MB.]

All Stars is season 8 and features at least one person from every season before it

[Braden]

Originally Posted by TomC

Hmmm... I mean I've enjoyed Season 1 a lot, and I still knew the F2 of that so idk. Does the format change at all in Season 2?

Also, when is the first All-Stars?

I knew who the winners were for a significant majority of seasons prior to watching them for the first time, and I don't necessarily think it should impact the season's quality in general. It depends how you feel though, it did annoy me a tiny bit whenever I would accidently find spoilers but I don't think knowing certain placements decreases the value when you're watching it (not for me anyway).

I would suggest you watch Australia. All-Stars is season 8.