[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Funny you say that as from what I read about him it unnerves me, think his name is David Payne but not sure.

Yes, one of the McCann's other friends had some quite disturbing things to say about David Payne and Gerry.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by 08marsh

Yes, one of the McCann's other friends had some quite disturbing things to say about David Payne and Gerry.

That's right I read about too

[Josy]

Originally Posted by 08marsh

Yes, one of the McCann's other friends had some quite disturbing things to say about David Payne and Gerry.

Originally Posted by Niamh.

That's right I read about too

What did they say?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Josy

What did they say?

Well, apparently this couple who were also Doctors had been on holiday abroad with the McCanns and the Paynes a year or maybe a little more before and the woman said she over heard conversations between David Payne and Gerry and they were saying inappropriate things about Maddie and davids daughter. I'll try and find a link

[Niamh.]

Spoiler:

Katherina Gaspar: Witness Statement PJ Files

Processos Vol XIII
Pages 3911 to 3915

Last Name: GASPAR
Forenames: KATHERINA ZACHARIAS
Date of Testimony: 16/05/2007
Number of Pages: 8

I give this declaration in relation to the MCCANN family who are currently in Portugal. The MCCANN family is composed of Gerry MCCANN, his wife, Kate MCCANN and their three children, Madeleine, age 4, and Sean and Amelie, who are twins and of 2 years of age.

As it is widely divulged, Madeleine is not with her family presently, and has been missing for the last two weeks.

I will begin by explaining that I am married to Savio Gaspar and that we have two daughters, E*****, who is almost 3 and I***** who is now one year old. I have been married to Savio for 11 years. I am a general practitioner like my husband. I met my husband when we were (page 1) working together in Exeter, around 14 years ago.

To explain in what way we met the MCCANN family, I would like to state that my husband knows Kate, given that both attended Dundee University between 1987 and 1992. At that time, Kate's name was Kate HEALY. I met Kate and Gerry for the occasion of their wedding, around 1998, in Liverpool. Both Savio and I went to the wedding because since Savio was an old friend of Kate, we were both invited to the event.

As far as I know Savio did not know Gerry before the abovementioned wedding. After that time, we met as friends and about three times we spent weekends away together. I would say become close to be intimate friends of Gerry and Kate.

I remember that in 2002 or 2003, Savio and I spent a weekend with Gerry and Kate in Devon. We maintained contact with each others via phone.

In 2002/2003 Savio and I were living in Birmingham and the MCCANNS in Leicester.

In September of 2005, Savio, I and Ellena, who at the time was 1 and a half years old, spent our holidays abroad, in Majorca. We went (page 2) on holidays with Kate, Gerry, and Madeleine, who should have been around 2 and a half years old and with the twins, Sean and Amelie, who were just months old. I remember that I was pregnant with Isabella.

On those holidays, with us, were as well friends of Gerry and Kate.

There was a couple, whose names were Dave and Fiona, and whose family name was PAYNE, I believe. I think that they were married and had one daughter with about 1 year old, named Lilly. I remember that on those holidays, Fiona was pregnant.

There was another couple, whose names were Tara and Stuart, and whose family name I cannot remember who were also on holidays with us. They had two boys, of 1 and 3 years old, whose names I do not remember. I did not know these two families until we went on holidays together. From memory, I think that it was David who organised these holidays and we all stayed together in a big house in Majorca.

We spent a week on holidays, however, the MCCANN family and the PAYNE family stayed for two weeks. I think that Tara and Stuart, and their two children, also stayed for just one week.

Two or three days had gone by, all of us staying in Majorca where, in general terms, we had fun (Page 3) with our children. Possibly around the fourth or fifth day abroad, I remember an incident that stayed recorded in my head. I say this in this way, because I have thought many times about the incident that I am about to describe.

One night, on holidays, the adults, that is, the couples that I mentioned, were on a patio outside of the house where we were staying. We had been eating and drinking.

I was seated between Dave and Gerry who I believe were both speaking about Madeleine. I don't remember the conversation in its entirety, but it seemed they were discussing a possible scenario. I remember Dave telling Gerry something like "she", referring to Madeleine, "would do this".

When he mentioned "this", Dave was sucking on one of his fingers, pushing it inside and outside his mouth, while with the other hand he made a circle around his nipple, in a circulatory movement over his clothes. This was done in a provocative manner and carried an explicit insinuation in relation to what he was saying and doing.

I remember that I was shocked at this, and looked at Gerry, and also at Dave, to see their reactions. I looked around (page 4) as if saying "did anyone else hear this, or was it just me". There was a nervous silence registered in all the conversations and afterwards, everyone began talking again.

I never spoke to anyone about this, but I always felt that it was very strange and it wasn’t something that someone should do or say.

Besides this [incident], I remember that Dave did the same thing once again. When I refer to this, I want to clarify that it was during a conversation in which he was talking about an imaginary situation, though I could not say exactly what about. I believe that he was talking about his own daughter, Lily, though I'm not certain. He put one of his fingers in his mouth and slide it in and out, while the other hand drew a circle around his nipple in a provocative and sexual manner. I believe that he was referring to the way that Lily, would behave or do it.

I believe that he did this later on, during the holidays, but I cannot be sure. The only time, besides this one, that I was with Dave and Fiona was several weeks after the holidays, when Savio and I met up with Gerry, Kate, Dave and Fiona at a restaurant in Leicester.

I am absolutely certain that he said what he said and that he did the gestures that I referred, but that could have occurred in the restaurant in Leicester, though (page five) I believe that it was later on, in Majorca. When I heard Dave doing and making this a second time, I took it more seriously.

I remember thinking whether he looked at the girls in a manner different from me or from the others. I imagined that maybe he had visited Internet sites related to small children. In short, I thought that he was interested child pornography on the internet.

During our holidays I was more attentive at bath time after hearing Dave saying that.

During our vacation in Majorca, it was the fathers who took care of the children's baths. I had the tendency to walk close to the bathroom, if it was Dave bathing the children. I remember telling Savio to be careful and to be there, in case it was Dave helping to bathe the children and, in particular, to my daughter E*****. I was very clear about this, as having heard him saying that had disturbed me, and I did not trust him to give bath to E***** alone.

When I heard Dave say that a second time, it reinforced what I already thought in relation to his thoughts about girls. During our stay in Majorca, Dave and his wife, Fiona, accompanied by this daughter Lily, took Madeleine (page 6) with them to spend the day, in order to give Kate and Gerry a bit of rest and time to be with the twins. When I say this, it is not that I was worried about Madeleine's safety, since she was also with Fiona and Lily, and also with Dave, as far as I know.

As I already mentioned, I was only with Dave and Fiona on one occasion, after Majorca, and I have not spoken to them since that time. In the last two years, we have met, as a family, with the MCCANN, once in a while. That happens mainly at the children's birthdays, a time when we get together.

The first time I had knowledge of the terrible news about Madeleine's disappearance through the radio, my thoughts went immediately to Dave. I asked Savio if Dave was also on holidays with the MCCANN in Portugal but he did not know.

I watched TV meticulously, and watching the coverage of the news, I understood that Dave was there, because I saw him, in the background, on the television images during the first days after the Madeleine's disappearance. Based on that, I believed that he was on holidays with the MCCANN in Portugal. Today, Wednesday, the 16th of May of 2007, at 17:40, I gave DC Brewer an A4 page containing 2 photographic images. I am going to reference these images as (ref KZG/1) (probatory element) that may (page seven) be presented as mean of proof, if necessary. These photographs were taken during the holidays in Majorca. In the photographs, Dave is wearing a white t-shirt and the woman in the photograph corresponds to his wife Fiona. The man who is holding the glass of wine in the photograph is Stuart. These photographs were taken while we were at Majorca.

Signed:

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id236.html

[Josy]

Thanks Nimah.

That's very disturbing.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Josy

Thanks Nimah.

That's very disturbing.

Yeah it really is

[Kizzy]

I've read that before, thats the reason he stuck in my mind.
I bet it's him refusing to return to Portugal.

[Vicky.]

Payne was the last one to see Maddie alive (except her parents) at about 6.30pm ish. The visit lasted 30 minutes according to him, 30 seconds according to kate. And was totally written out of the reconstruction so it seems it didnt happen at all now

The doctor who checked on the kids was Matthew Oldfield. He said he saw the twins, but didnt actually see Maddie. But since everything was quiet he though it was fine.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by the truth

everyone should be grilled thoroughly
in particular everyone at that table. who was the last person to check maddie before kate found her? wasn't there another doctor there who went to see her half an hour earlier? he needs to be regrilled

David Payne was "supposed "to be the last who saw her ,Im gutted to see today the Golden Couple have asked to be told everything that they are doing and planning to do in the case, they seem to forget they are the only real suspects in the case both Uk and Pj ,Murat was pointed out by Tanner so he doesnt count ,if the Pj allow them to be told everything ,but God know why they would do so ,then I will lose any faith I have of the law ,and poor Maddie has lost again, such a shame

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

They said they didnt think it would help, and would be traumatizing..etc

I kinda get that, however you would put that aside if there was even a small chance that the girl was found. IMO anyway

They have been back loads of times, but usually if they think there is a cheque at the other side waiting for them

[chuff me dizzy]

Never heard the like of this .............. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ace-trial.html

[chuff me dizzy]

I cannot believe it ....... NOW they are ok about doing reconstruction ? and dog evidence CAN be used, looking a bit more hopeful ,this is posted by someone on group Im in ,its just been broadcast on tv in Portugal BACK TO BEING ARGUIDOS !!!!!!!


Video with the dogs will be broadcast later... A few points so far - CMTV states the reconstruction will go ahead and that the parents have showed their availability to attend; - the former Minister of the Interior (MAI) Rui Pereira said the McCanns should be constituted as arguidos until the end of the inquest; - The McCanns have requested to be assistants to the process;

[fingers]

I am still of the opinion that Maddie died from an overdose of a sedative to keep her asleep while her parents enjoyed the high life.

[anne666]

Originally Posted by 08marsh

Yeah, if they were from a council state you can bet they'd have had the twins taken away from them.

I said just that at the time. Social Services would have swooped in the minute they got back to England. How can any parent live with that on their conscience

[anne666]

[QUOTE
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id236.html[/QUOTE]

I'm afraid if I'd witnessed something like that I would have asked him just what it was about.

[arista]

Originally Posted by fingers

I am still of the opinion that Maddie died from an overdose of a sedative to keep her asleep while her parents enjoyed the high life.

OK


The body is in what place ?

[fingers]

Originally Posted by arista

OK


The body is in what place ?

Don't ask me, ask Gerry.

[Kazanne]

For anyone interested this is interesting too
http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t83...-now-on-page-1

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

For anyone interested this is interesting too
http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t83...-now-on-page-1

Yes, the 'new' suspect is NOT new. Was just pretty much ignored by the parents for years. I think she did acknowledge it in her book but she swears that the smith sighting was the same person as Jane Tanners man. Despite there being nearly an hour between the sightings and such

I suspect the reason it was kept quiet is because Smith said that he was 60-80% sure the guy he saw was Gerry...though he has changed his mind since, after a visit from their spokesperson

Cant believe the times has been allowed to run with that story actually..they should expect to be sued shortly I imagine.

A statement released by the Find Madeleine fund said that “all information privately gathered during the search for Madeleine has been fully acted upon where necessary” and had been passed to Scotland Yard.

Hmm..yeah sure..

[fingers]

This is a 112 page PDF file free to download, purporting to tell the true story of Medeleine's disappearance.

> http://freepdfhosting.com/9099bef539.pdf

[Kizzy]

It says file cannot be loaded on here grrr!
If anyone reads it cut and paste any interesting bits here please.
Have to say it's crazy that gerry blames press intrusion for hampering the case, then withholds eyewitness accounts?....

[fingers]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

It says file cannot be loaded on here grrr!
If anyone reads it cut and paste any interesting bits here please.
Have to say it's crazy that gerry blames press intrusion for hampering the case, then withholds eyewitness accounts?....

Kizzy what platform are you using?

http://get.adobe.com/uk/reader/

[fingers]

Try this one Kizzy

> http://www.promptfile.com/l/DB5589D447-C1102BCE3A it's a PDF file and you need a PDF reader to see it, Jesus has posted a link to a reader.