[Beso]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

And yet, while that does sometimes spill over into a bit of violence, it hasn't descended into the sort of destruction we've seen over the last few days. Which is strange, if it's all just teenagers looking for "any excuse". Seems that "any excuse" is more "the right excuse".

Their excuse came when a black youth youth stabbed 3 children to death.

That's what it eventually took, I mean it's not like its been the first incident of terror wrapped up a mental health this year...far from it infact.

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Cherie

The problem is people are not being listened to full stop. Labour labelling everyone who raises an issue as Far Right is fueling the fire, so far they have handled this very badly imo, its too easy to label every one as thick and stupid, there are alot of not so thick or not so stupid people who are concerned about getting a GP appointment, a dentist appointment, a hospital appointment, a school place for their child, and to live in safety, time for the government to step up and start addressing and letting the public know how many asylum applications are being processed,how many are granted asylum, how many people are returned, what the timeframe is on reducing the back log.... thats the job off the Home Office.... they are very hot on making sure people who come into the country legally pay their visa costs, not so hot in dealing with asylum application backlogs

Smashing and looting a shoe shop is not going to get you a go appointment is you can’t crasp that then I’m sorry you are stupid

Fighting the police will not do anything to stop knife crime

You can’t use we are not being listened to as an excuse to you violence and criminal damage

[Crimson Dynamo]

I wonder when we will learn why axel muganwa rudakubana went on a mass murder of children spree?

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Well goldheart, all I've seen for months and months in the cities of manchester, leeds and london every weekend is anti semitic left wingers who are full of hatred protesting against the jewish state if Israel.

I assume you're talking about the pro Palestine marches/ protests

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Stopping the boats isn't violent

Anti-mass immigration isn't violent

Protesting about failed integration isn't violent

The violence by and large is being done by teenagers with no cause

?

Wonder if the government could put a ‘bounty’ on the incoming boats somehow


Like an early warning system where the nation’s fishing fleet of boats get paid to be lookouts .

Then relay the information to land where an armed forces boat or customs boat goes out and escorts them back to the French coast ( then sink them on their beaches)


Simplez


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[Cherie]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

Smashing and looting a shoe shop is not going to get you a go appointment is you can’t crasp that then I’m sorry you are stupid

Fighting the police will not do anything to stop knife crime

You can’t use we are not being listened to as an excuse to you violence and criminal damage

and you haven't grasped what I am saying have you? the government not listening to ordinary, decent people for years has given the looters and rioters the opportunity for carnage, nowhere did I say fighting was the answer. Many of these people dont need a reason to fight they are anarchists, and opportunists


The government have come out and labelled anyone who raises an issue as Far Right, you were 'far right' yourself not so long ago and a massive Tory supporter before you have done an 180 degree turn

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

The skinheads in 2024 often in fact have a full head of hair. Guess who I'm thinking of. He's on YouTube.

I reckon he actually is a baldie


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[James]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

It’s simple violence and and criminal damage will not be rewarded
The problem is we have a vast majority of people of all ages in this country that are simply too stupid to grasp the fact that violent disorder and destruction will not and never will give them a voice that intelligent people will listen to.

I would agree apart from saying it is a majority of people. This is just an online fringe that has been brought into the real world.

Protests are often not representative of what the public at large thinks. We are talking about groups of a few hundred here. Even a million people on the streets would only be about 1-2% of the population of Britain.

What changes government policy is public opinion and ultimately voting in elections.

People have a right to protest peacefully without causing harm to others. They don't have a right to be listened to (and have their views enacted).

[Beso]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

I wonder when we will learn why axel muganwa rudakubana went on a mass murder of children spree?

Whenever we do it wont be the truth.

We have had consecutive governments lying about aids and hepatitis infected blood they bought on the cheap from the us prison system, and the lies over iraq...so why on earth are they going to say he was already on watch lists all if a sudden!

It's the governments on both sides inability to be honest with is that was also a helping hand in all of this.

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Whatever politic views ,whether you're left wing or right wing.... inciting violence and justifying weapons ,and destroying businesses & shops is despicable behaviour.

Are they targeting shops owned by immigrants non whites or are the lootings just random I wonder


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[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

Smashing and looting a shoe shop is not going to get you a go appointment is you can’t crasp that then I’m sorry you are stupid

Fighting the police will not do anything to stop knife crime

You can’t use we are not being listened to as an excuse to you violence and criminal damage

I'm sure anyone with half a brain knows the looting and violence is dumb & pointless,and will solve nothing but cause more divide and hatred for their fellow man.


The chaos and carnage is like a disease spreading across the country, people still have a right to criticise different things including the government....it doesn't mean they support the mindless rioting .

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

Smashing and looting a shoe shop is not going to get you a go appointment is you can’t crasp that then I’m sorry you are stupid

Fighting the police will not do anything to stop knife crime

You can’t use we are not being listened to as an excuse to you violence and criminal damage

If they are targeting hotels housing immigrants and looting businesses owned by what they see as immigrants/ non whites then that at least has an element of logic


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[Zizu]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

I wonder when we will learn why axel muganwa rudakubana went on a mass murder of children spree?

Do we know the circumstances surrounding him taking a knife into school and threatening people ?
Was it a British school ?

How was he punished ?

Does anyone know for sure ?


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[Beso]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

I assume you're talking about the pro Palestine marches/ protests

Yes, the ones that have been so much hijacked by left wing organisations that the numbers of actual palastians attending them now has more than halfed.

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

I'm sure anyone with half a brain knows the looting and violence is dumb & pointless,and will solve nothing but cause more divide and hatred for their fellow man.


The chaos and carnage is like a disease spreading across the country, people still have a right to criticise different things including the government....it doesn't mean they support the mindless rioting .

If they are looting/ wrecking businesses owned by non whites then that’s their way of saying “ you are not wanted in these parts”


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[Quantum Boy]

Originally Posted by Cherie

The problem is people are not being listened to full stop. Labour labelling everyone who raises an issue as Far Right is fueling the fire, so far they have handled this very badly imo, its too easy to label every one as thick and stupid, there are alot of not so thick or not so stupid people who are concerned about getting a GP appointment, a dentist appointment, a hospital appointment, a school place for their child, and to live in safety

Yes but intelligent people don't use fists and bricks to make their point.

I largely agree overall and the way to stop this sort of carnage would be, in part, rewarding intelligent conversation and debate around these issues whilst condemning (and prosecuting) violence and destruction of property. I don't disagree that people aren't being listened to, I don't disagree that people with nuanced and important things to say on these issues are too scared to do so for fear of labelling. I watched the Tommy Robinson documentary Parmy posted with an open mind and a critical eye - I saw some massive and very valid issues presented for 2/3 of the run time - a genuinely decent documentary - and then the final 1/3 being a call-to-arms with increasingly extreme rhetoric. I might even have been convinced, if I didn't know what I was looking at.

And that's the whole point really.

Radicalisation and extremism isn't borne of lies it's borne of uncomfortable truths, real frustrations, real anxieties of large numbers of people, that are captured, exploited and pointed in a direction by a small number of more-shrewd people with an agenda.

Propaganda that is entirely false doesn't work.

That doesn't mean that the smattering of truth scattered through propaganda makes that propaganda legitimate.

But yes - I do accept that not allowing reasonable, intelligent discussion of real issues to take place and the silencing of academic debate has contributed vastly to the frustrations that allow civil unrest to take hold.

There's just not often much point trying to have a real discussion about that on here.

Because so few are ready, willing or able to admit that the presence of real problems doesn't mean that mindless thugs are not mindless thugs, and racists are not racist, etc, etc.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Whenever we do it wont be the truth.

We have had consecutive governments lying about aids and hepatitis infected blood they bought on the cheap from the us prison system, and the lies over iraq...so why on earth are they going to say he was already on watch lists all if a sudden!

It's the governments on both sides inability to be honest with is that was also a helping hand in all of this.

Plus years of jailing and demonising innocent people thru the Post Office Scandal

[Livia]

The rioters have done nothing to help bring the real issue of unfettered and illegal immigration to a place where it can be discussed. In fact they've seriously harmed the cause. Now Starmer can call anyone with worries about the handover of our culture that they're right wing thugs.

[Quantum Boy]

Originally Posted by James

I would agree apart from saying it is a majority of people. This is just an online fringe that has been brought into the real world.

Yes and no James this is 2000's thinking; the rise of "quick social media" and especially algorithmic social media like TikTok means that, in the younger population, the "online fringe" is the vast majority of that population. Young boys especially are being flooded with this content, daily. Not just a "fringe" it's standard schoolyard conversation.

We're barely seeing the tip of the iceberg.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Yes, the ones that have been so much hijacked by left wing organisations that the numbers of actual palastians attending them now has more than halfed.

Well that's a whole other debate, I know there's LGBTQ+ groups supporting Palestine,which some people find puzzling. I assume that's one of the ' left wing organisations '... you're thinking of? .

[Quantum Boy]

Originally Posted by Livia

The rioters have done nothing to help bring the real issue of unfettered and illegal immigration to a place where it can be discussed. In fact they've seriously harmed the cause. Now Starmer can call anyone with worries about the handover of our culture that they're right wing thugs.

Starmer's handling of this has been abysmal and he isn't thick, which makes it even more worrying because it's likely to be somewhat deliberate.

But Sunak's response would have been near identical.

Farage (in some bizarro reality where Reform had gotten into power) would have been even worse and weaponised the unrest.

Truly, truly depressing that there was no GE outcome that would have resulted in a better response to this. Like I said yesterday, there's a horrible feeling of inevitability at this point. Feels like a train with no one at the controls... it's just going where it's going.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

Smashing and looting a shoe shop is not going to get you a go appointment is you can’t crasp that then I’m sorry you are stupid

Fighting the police will not do anything to stop knife crime

You can’t use we are not being listened to as an excuse to you violence and criminal damage

Absolutely.

I agree with you on the smashing,,looting part not going to help matters

Your next 2 paragraphs I agree 100%.

There's no excusing any of these brainless morons rioting or the unnecessary criminal damage and injury they're causing.

There shouldn't be ANY kind of trying to justify any of it or them.
This load of dangerous idiots rioting are the ones who shouldn't be here.
They should not be allowed to gain a single thing from this rioting.
Not a thing I'm my view.

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Cherie

and you haven't grasped what I am saying have you? the government not listening to ordinary, decent people for years has given the looters and rioters the opportunity for carnage, nowhere did I say fighting was the answer. Many of these people dont need a reason to fight they are anarchists, and opportunists


The government have come out and labelled anyone who raises an issue as Far Right, you were 'far right' yourself not so long ago and a massive Tory supporter before you have done an 180 degree turn

Wrong I’ve agreed with some Tory views I also agree with some labour views
I don’t defend anyone if I don’t agree same I don’t run with the crowd on here

You don’t understand scum bags have taken an opportunity to fight and cause criminal damage

Did the2011 riots start because a drug dealer got shot by the police

People standing and watching these animals fight the police makes the so called decent people just as bad

[Cherie]

It's been a great week for the Far Right lets be honest, Labour have handed them plenty material to get more and more people on board, previously if you highlighted a concern about illegal immigration you would 'just' be called a racist, now its Racist and Far Right....give me strength at the idiots in power

I notice when people were protesting in Spain recently about over Tourism and lack of housing/opportunity many people were nodding along with them, not calling them racist or far right.....

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Stopping the boats isn't violent

Anti-mass immigration isn't violent

Protesting about failed integration isn't violent

The violence by and large is being done by teenagers with no cause

?

No, but seeing pictures with people holding Union Jacks whilst also taking on Police Officers is violent.