[Angus]

Originally Posted by Shiner

I'm not a big Dave fan or owt but in the spirit of fairness I said this in a different thread and I think it explains it.

I wouldn't waste your time on this lot. Like you, I'm not a Dave fan but to have a go at him because of his beliefs is low. Just because I don't subscribe to his beliefs, doesn't give me the right to ridicule him, especially as religious beliefs in general are based on concepts that can neither be proven or disproven, so it all boils down to a matter of personal opinion.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by angus58

I'm not wasting my time debating with someone whose mind is so closed that they can't see any point of view but their own. I feel sorry for you, but can't be arsed explaining my point any further. For the record I do not follow any form of organised religion but I sure as hell respect the beliefs of others. You can no more DISPROVE religion than you can PROVE it, so why not just admit that and move on? Instead you assert your opinion as if it were a proven fact - talk about arrogant.

My mind is not closed. You just cannot get drunk on reading The Bible. See it's pretty simple, really.

You expanded the scope of this pretty considerably of your own volition. I was not talking about disproving religion. Well ... religion can be disproved ... but I will assume you meant to say spirituality. In which case why would somewhat of a spiritualist [me, you see] want to disprove any concept of spirituality?

You just cannot get drunk on The Bible. If that makes me close minded, then so be it. But I'm not sure why you are attempting to get me to 'admit' to a facet of an argument I was never arguing in the first place, along with lambasting me for trying to pass my opinion off as fact. I'm not passing opinion off as fact. I'm passing fact off as fact.

You cannot get drunk by reading The Bible. S'a fact, brah.

BTW, there is an invisible pixie spitting invisible spit right above your head right now. You can't disprove it looooooolz. Now respect my belief.

No. Because of course that's fucking riddiculous. Isin't it. So stop prancing around on some high horse masquerading as an 'equality for all!~' horse demanding that people respect each others beliefs. I don't have to. I'm not obligated to. I don't respect his, I don't respect yours, and in turn I don't expect people to respect mine all the time. Sorry, but I still have one foot in the real world [false alarm, ILTRW - go back to bed]. The world you are proposing is one subject to absoloute chaos. One where we all have carte blanche to make up any old meritless bull**** our imaginations will allow and demand people grant us respect because you cannot disprove the madhat ideas put foward.

It's such a stupid, stupid argument people seem to want to forever put foward. I believe in [some sort of] god but I wouldn't dare say you cannot disprove it. It's just a silly argument.

[Claymores]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

Don't get me wrong - I don't condone what he said - but he clearly mean't no ill will - but it was very tactless - I think he will realise that and feel bad about it! Personally, I haven't witnessed him preaching - so can't comment on that!

Fair play to you! He hasn't really preached on other HMs as you correctly say. But if he get's the bible for 30 minutes per day, sod off and go read it Dave rather than subject others to it as he did the other day (dong a Steven Baldwin)

He's also said he's gone in to spread the love of our Lord on many occasions - shove a Muslim or Jewish in. As Happyland said, shoving it down yer throat is quite offensive. If it solved hisalcohol/drug addiction then fine - but we don't need the epithany.

[JustSkipIt]

Originally Posted by Stu

My mind is not closed. You just cannot get drunk on reading The Bible. See it's pretty simple, really....

Bloody hell - for millennia the greatest philosophical minds have sat around and debated what is and isn't possible.
The poor buggers wasted their time - they should have just sat on their hams and waited for you to come along and tell them

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by JustSkipIt

Bloody hell - for millennia the greatest philosophical minds have sat around and debated what is and isn't possible.
The poor buggers wasted their time - they should have just sat on their hams and waited for you to come along and tell them

This! (I tried to keep out of it - but that is a very logical point!)

[Stu]

Originally Posted by JustSkipIt

Bloody hell - for millennia the greatest philosophical minds have sat around and debated what is and isn't possible.
The poor buggers wasted their time - they should have just sat on their hams and waited for you to come along and tell them

I was under the impression that most grown men need not be told you cannot get intoxicated from reading a book.

Maybe things are different around your area of this wonderful cosmic space we inhabit.

[JustSkipIt]

Originally Posted by Claymores

Fair play to you! He hasn't really preached on other HMs as you correctly say. But if he get's the bible for 30 minutes per day, sod off and go read it Dave rather than subject others to it as he did the other day (dong a Steven Baldwin)

He's also said he's gone in to spread the love of our Lord on many occasions - shove a Muslim or Jewish in. As Happyland said, shoving it down yer throat is quite offensive. If it solved hisalcohol/drug addiction then fine - but we don't need the epithany.

Perhaps it's like ex-smokers - they find something that helps them quit and they want to let all smokers know about it.

Dave has found something that enriches his life and makes him feel fabulous - he wants other people for feel that way too, which is really quite sweet.

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by Stu

I was under the impression that most grown men need not be told you cannot get intoxicated from reading a book.

Maybe things are different around your area of this wonderful cosmic space we inhabit.

I don't believe David or this particular case, but it must be nice to have the inside track on the universe, how it works, and whats possible.

When can we expect your first book?

[Stu]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

This! (I tried to keep out of it - but that is a very logical point!)

Since you were so eager to quote it, what is the point of his post then? To say that it was me who after all this time came to the revelatory conclusion that you cannot get drunk from reading?

Obviously not, because everyone and their mother knows this.

So what was his point, then? Because I was expecting your involvment sooner or later. You didn't need an excuse. You could have just dropped a '' or something.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by vesavius

I don't believe David or this particular case, but it must be nice to have the inside track on the universe, how it works, and whats possible.

When can we expect your first book?

I can't seem to finish the thing. Every time I try and write more I feel dizzy and am struck by the urge to have a go on the aul kareokey cajigger.

Now since you decided to drop in on the party, can you explain in your own words why you think I have the inside track on the universe? Because the point you are putting foward doesn't seem to have anything to do with the post you quoted, leaving poor befuddle brains here out in the cold.

Good lad.

[BB_Eye]

I actually believe intoxication is very possible and obtainable without the use of illicit substances or copious amounts of alcohol. But reading the Bible is the last place I would look.

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by Stu

I can't seem to finish the thing. Every time I try and write more I feel dizzy and am struck by the urge to have a go on the aul kareokey cajigger.

Now since you decided to drop in on the party, can you explain in your own words why you think I have the inside track on the universe? Because the point you are putting foward doesn't seem to have anything to do with the post you quoted, leaving poor befuddle brains here out in the cold.

Good lad.

You need it explaining?

Well... ok...

The point I am putting forward, as you say, is that you make definitive statements about what and what isnt possible and I think you know sh1t all about anything.

And thanks, I try

[Claymores]

Originally Posted by JustSkipIt

Perhaps it's like ex-smokers - they find something that helps them quit and they want to let all smokers know about it.

Dave has found something that enriches his life and makes him feel fabulous - he wants other people for feel that way too, which is really quite sweet.

This is a glib post - please don't take it to heart:

I'd rather smoke 40 a day than Dave's religion - maybe he can put his hands on me to make me quit.

I find something about the Dave/Steven crapola very pernicious - fine for them to leave their former addictions behind but do they really have to try indocrinate the rest of the world to their new addiction.

[Claymores]

Originally Posted by BB_Eye

I actually believe intoxication is very possible and obtainable without the use of illicit substances or copious amounts of alcohol. But reading the Bible is the last place I would look.

Let me into the secret

[Stu]

Originally Posted by vesavius

You need it explaining?

Well... ok...

The point I am putting forward, as you say, is that you make definitive statements about what and what isnt possible and I think you know sh1t all about anything.

And thanks, I try

Statements being plural. In this thread I made one definitive statement. That being that intoxication in the manner that Dave claims to experience through reading pages of The Bible is impossible.

So no, I'm afriad I still do not understand this rather odd attack. Perhaps master would like another go at it ...

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by Stu

Since you were so eager to quote it, what is the point of his post then? To say that it was me who after all this time came to the revelatory conclusion that you cannot get drunk from reading?

Obviously not, because everyone and their mother knows this.

So what was his point, then? Because I was expecting your involvment sooner or later. You didn't need an excuse. You could have just dropped a '' or something.

Not literally, of course, - but psychologically - maybe! As another poster said - it is about his state of mind (Euphoria) - and as strange as it may seem to the rest of us - if he says that is how it makes him feel - then so be it!

I believe the previous poster was referring to the existence of a higher power and/or how one's beliefs can affect one's mind - it is still a very mis-understood phenomenon - no definitive proof one way or the other! You believe or you don't!

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by Stu

Statements being plural. In this thread I made one definitive statement. That being that intoxication in the manner that Dave claims to experience through reading pages of The Bible is impossible.

So no, I'm afriad I still do not understand this rather odd attack. Perhaps master would like another go at it ...

Nah, you get it I think, even at your age. I doubt the use of a plural confused even you, but I get thats the only defense that you could grasp for.

Anyhow, I have said what I needed to say, I will leave you to your moment in the spotlight

[Stu]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

Not literally, of course, - but psychologically - maybe! As another poster said - it is about his state of mind (Euphoria) - and as strange as it may seem to the rest of us - if he says that is how it makes him feel - then so be it!

I believe the previous poster was referring to the existence of a higher power and/or how one's beliefs can affect one's mind - it is still a very mis-understood phenomenon - no definitive proof one way or the other! You believe or you don't!

That has nothing to do with what I asked?

Nevertheless, I understand what you are saying, but again David doesn't just claim to get an altered state from reading The Bible, he claims to get drunk.

Compare it to jogging. People obtain an altered, 'higher' state through jogging all the time. But it's just simple brain chemistry in action. People getting high off jogging in that regard are fine. However if you go out for a jog and stagger back with half your clothes missing in the midst of an 80's revivalist sing along, people may just think you are full of shit.

And that's exactly what these Christian Sloshfests David is involved with are about. They claim to get drunk from The Bible. They don't sit and meditate. By fuck they party on with the power of the lord.

EDIT : See post below for more.

[Julie10]

Originally Posted by angus58

Don't people recognise metaphor when they see it? - being drunk on the holy spirit is Dave's way of saying he is filled with the love of God (there are many references to being filled with the holy spirit in the bible and some denominations actively practice rituals designed to put its followers in a state of euphoria very similar to intoxication). If people in the house are sick and tired of hearing him talk about God, then why don't they have the guts to tell him to **** instead of bitching about him behind his back?

Personally, I nod off every time Nathan, Ife, Josie, Scabby, Sidekick or JJ open their mouths, so perhaps they should be more tolerant as they are deadly bores themselves.

Yes but he actually sways, slurs his words looks like hes about to burp and slouches in his chair like he has had a skinful.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by vesavius

Nah, you get it I think, even at your age. I doubt the use of a plural confused even you, but I get thats the only defense that you could grasp for.

Anyhow, I have said what I needed to say, I will leave you to your moment in the spotlight

Defence against what exactly? Because I still have no idea what you are trying to say, so I am alas completely incapable of defending shit from sugar.

From what I gather my punishment for putting foward the maverick idea that one cannot get drunk from The Bible is to be told by various people that I am clueless, up my own ass, arrogant, and full of shit? Only on TiBB, baby.

So do please explain. I just love it when people claim I do not have a defence and then play the classic 'I'm leaving it all to you coz I just happened to get bored of the argument at this very moment lolz' card.

You don't think I have been here with better posters before? It's a shameless attempt to either have the last word yourself, or make me look like an attention seeking nimrod if I reply. It's designed as a no win situation for the person it's directed at.

Nobody suddenly feels the urge to let everyone know they are leaving a thread. No, this is just the forum equivalent of donning a miniskirt, slapping on some eyeliner, unleashing the pepper spray, and legging it to the nearest taxi cab.

[Peter Plunker]

Blimey you lot have been busy.

Right, let's clear up a few smaller things first.

Dave does not have a 'church' or people that follow him. He's a full time minister that goes around the country and abroad ministering in churches. As far as I'm concerned there is only one church anyway, it's like a tree with loads of branches.

I've known Dave for over ten years. The intoxication he speaks of has only increased over the last four years but has been spoken of in the church for two thousand years. The bible makes many references to God's presence being like wine and in the book of acts on the day of pentecost the early church founders came rolling out of the 'upper room' and people thought they were drunk, the response was 'These men are not drunk, as you suppose. It's only nine in the morning!' acts 12:15.
The intoxicating presence of God does indeed feel like being drunk or indeed stoned. It isn't mass hysteria or something that is whipped up. Sometimes I feel it just doing my job, or washing the dishes, or driving my car.
Psalm 16;11 says ' You have made known to me the path of life;
you will fill me with joy in your presence,
with eternal pleasures at your right hand.'

1 Corinthians 2:14
14The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Dave is not a preachy guy, he's just himself. You cannot however separate Dave from God. Nor should people try to. It's like accusing John James of preaching about Australia becuase he has an Oz accent.

If you have real axe to grind then contact Endemol with your concerns, don't throw up all kinds of dispicable accusations that bear no truth.

No doubt people will still criticise him and your perfectly entitled to do that. My faith (and Dave's) is rugged enough to withstand petty criticism. Just remember, you don't know him, I do.

[Stu]

You feel drunk at work? That's incredibly irresponsible of God. I would sue him, if I were you.

Seriously though, honest question : Why - as a Christian - do you feel such a small minority of you feel this intoxicating prescence? After all we have what ... a billion ... Christians in the world? Including millions upon millions of the fundamentalist strain.

Has the man upstairs not got enough of the Jesus Juice to go around?

[billy123]

intoxication of christ is hardly new as peter says.
this is the same thing.

Youtube video

[Peter Plunker]

Originally Posted by Stu

You feel drunk at work? That's incredibly irresponsible of God. I would sue him, if I were you.

Seriously though, honest question : Why - as a Christian - do you feel such a small minority of you feel this intoxicating prescence? After all we have what ... a billion ... Christians in the world? Including millions upon millions of the fundamentalist strain.

Has the man upstairs not got enough of the Jesus Juice to go around?

No, it's because so much of the church is bound up in tradition and man's way of thinking that they've missed what's in the Bible (including the fundies). So many church leaders preach about being sombre and reverant and are afraid to experience what's in the Bible. Once you've tasted the goodness of God there's no going back. To me NOT enjoying God is irreverant!
Plenty of Jesus juice to go around.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by bobnot

intoxication of christ is hardly new as peter says.
this is the same thing.

Youtube video

The reality is a whole lot less cooler :

Youtube video

PRAISE!

*hic*