[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Jack_

But my point is - how are we supposed to decipher whether someone is right that she was out of tune or that someone else is right that they were in tune? How is it possible to decipher who is right and who is wrong? Because both sides will believe they are right - so surely it's got to be an opinion? If it's not and it's just bias, then one of the sides could easily say 'you're the one that's biased', but the other could then say the same, thus providing no resolution. So it's got to be an opinion if everyone can't agree that she was in/out of tune and whether people are biased or not? What else could it be?

It is not opinion though. This is what I am saying.

Bias comes into it with people defending/slating her for being in/out of tune...but the fact of the matter is, each performance either IS or IS NOT out of tune. How people chose to take that is entirely up to them, but it is not someones opinion. At all.

This has kinda already been proved by you denying she was out of tune, and then later deciding that she was out of tune in parts



Anyways this is going round in circles, and i get the feeling that you are kinda missing the point deliberately (sorry if you are not) so this is my last post on this matter.

[Z]

Originally Posted by Jack_

I said she was off-key for one small part. It seems to me most people in this thread [bar Vicky, who has just stated differently] are stating that she was out of tune for the entire song. That's something I don't agree with.

And that's the matter of opinion - I also don't think she was out of tune for the whole song, but the unbiased observation is that she was off key during the song.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Jack_

I said she was off-key for one small part. It seems to me most people in this thread [bar Vicky, who has just stated differently] are stating that she was out of tune for the entire song. That's something I don't agree with.

I never said the whole song either. And eventhough I don't like her I wouldn't say it unless I thought. I readily admitted that she was very good last week

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

It is not opinion though. This is what I am saying.

But then what is? I see what you're saying, but if some people think she was in tune and others thing she was out of tune, how do you decide who is right and who is wrong? I understand that whether she was in tune/out of tune is a fact - but when people have differing views, how do people decide which is right and which is wrong?

Originally Posted by Vicky.

This has kinda already been proved by you denying she was out of tune, and then later deciding that she was out of tune in parts

I didn't 'later decide', I always believed that - just like you did and chose not to say that she wasn't out of tune for the entire performance until later in the thread.

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Anyways this is going round in circles, and i get the feeling that you are kinda missing the point deliberately (sorry if you are not) so this is my last post on this matter.

It's definitely not deliberate. I understand what you're saying [that it's a fact, not an opinion, so I apologise if I didn't make that clear enough, but what I'm just trying to say is what do you call people's differing ideas to the 'fact'? Because some people believe she was in tune, others believe she was out of tune.

Originally Posted by Zee

And that's the matter of opinion - I also don't think she was out of tune for the whole song, but the unbiased observation is that she was off key during the song.

Fair enough.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

I never said the whole song either. And eventhough I don't like her I wouldn't say it unless I thought. I readily admitted that she was very good last week

Fair enough then. So I guess we can all agree that she was out of tune in parts, but for the majority she was in tune?

I'll settle for that, because that's what I believe

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

eh no. They're not my army and so I would not be wearing a poppy.

That's your choice. No one would force you... but you asked why should Cher wear a poppy if she's Irish and I offered a suggestion why.

Luckily for the Allies, a hundred thousand Irishmen thought it was a cause worth fighting for. Unluckily for them they were shunned by many of their countrymen, and despite stories of the Holocaust filtering back, de Valera actually paid his respects to the German representative in Dublin when he heard Hitler was dead. Nice to know that not all Irish people felt that way back then.

Edit: Mary not Cher... obviously. I'm having brain-fade today.

[patsylimerick]

Originally Posted by Livia

That's your choice. No one would force you... but you asked why should Cher wear a poppy if she's Irish and I offered a suggestion why.

Luckily for the Allies, a hundred thousand Irishmen thought it was a cause worth fighting for. Unluckily for them they were shunned by many of their countrymen, and despite stories of the Holocaust filtering back, de Valera actually paid his respects to the German representative in Dublin when he heard Hitler was dead. Nice to know that not all Irish people felt that way back then.

Firstly, I'm Irish and my grandfather and his two brothers fought at the Somme. One of them's buried there. Right. That's out of the way. To be fair here, the wearing of poppies is a difficult and a complex issue in Ireland and I think it's far too complicated and grey to qualify as fodder for a discussion forum like this. No disrespect to anyone. Just find this discussion, on here, very uncomfortable.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

That's your choice. No one would force you... but you asked why should Cher wear a poppy if she's Irish and I offered a suggestion why.

Luckily for the Allies, a hundred thousand Irishmen thought it was a cause worth fighting for. Unluckily for them they were shunned by many of their countrymen, and despite stories of the Holocaust filtering back, de Valera actually paid his respects to the German representative in Dublin when he heard Hitler was dead. Nice to know that not all Irish people felt that way back then.

Obviously Mary felt the same too

[Pyramid*]

I gave a huge sigh when I saw it was back to the bow legged ghetto rapper style mix again... FFS, we get the message: and it's boring the tits off me now.

There were quite a few part that she was woefully out of tune, breathless at parts when she was jumping/dancing about, and one part that she sounded like a cat on heat.

Why Danni and Louis hold back - beggars belief. Surprised at Danni - as her judgments and opinions are usually spot on - honest.

Cowell did have an attempt at saying she wasnt as good, and it was the 'same old style again', but then when Miss Gurnface opened her gob to respond - he then gave it all the "Still think you're special" pish.

WTF???

[Lee.]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

I gave a huge sigh when I saw it was back to the bow legged ghetto rapper style mix again... FFS, we get the message: and it's boring the tits off me now.

There were quite a few part that she was woefully out of tune, breathless at parts when she was jumping/dancing about, and one part that she sounded like a cat on heat.

Why Danni and Louis hold back - beggars belief. Surprised at Danni - as her judgments and opinions are usually spot on - honest.

Cowell did have an attempt at saying she wasnt as good, and it was the 'same old style again', but then when Miss Gurnface opened her gob to respond - he then gave it all the "Still think you're special" pish.

WTF???

Hi Pyramid

Yeah.. the bow legged thing gets on my tits too

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

I gave a huge sigh when I saw it was back to the bow legged ghetto rapper style mix again... FFS, we get the message: and it's boring the tits off me now.

There were quite a few part that she was woefully out of tune, breathless at parts when she was jumping/dancing about, and one part that she sounded like a cat on heat.

Why Danni and Louis hold back - beggars belief. Surprised at Danni - as her judgments and opinions are usually spot on - honest.

Cowell did have an attempt at saying she wasnt as good, and it was the 'same old style again', but then when Miss Gurnface opened her gob to respond - he then gave it all the "Still think you're special" pish.

WTF???

I agree.

What I didn't like was that she only really sang the choirus and was out of tune in parts. The 'rapping' is getting old now. She needs to deliver new rhymes for anyone to say she can rap. At the moment she isnt rapping.

Simon was spot on when he called it a copycat. She's not an artist, she's an impressionist.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Jack_

I guess they just don't like performers, people with stage presence and personality

No I think it's more that we prefer to watch performers who have some vestige of talent to justify the "stage presence and personality". A decent singing voice helps. When I'm sat at home listening to my cds, stage presence and personality won't do it for me

[bbfan1991]

Cher through, I fear for some peoples blood temperatures every week!.

[Pato]

Mary was out of tune and none of the judges mentioned it

[Jords]

They are up her arse so much that it makes Cher less likable!

[bbfan1991]

Originally Posted by Jords

They are up her arse so much that it makes Cher less likable!

How's that her fault though, Cher is not psychic and can't control or predict what the judges are going to say about her. The judges say what they want, most of the time now most people seem to ignore their comments anyway and make their own mind up!.

[Jords]

^
Its not her fault, but its made her much more aragont.

[Locke.]

The judges know that Cher is the most amazing person to ever appear on the show, that's all there is to it really.

[Jords]

^
Thought that was Olly?

[Locke.]

No Olly was my second favourite last year. Jamie was my favourite, he is joint first with Cher.

[patsylimerick]

Originally Posted by Jords

They are up her arse so much that it makes Cher less likable!

The services of the Chilean rescue team will be required shortly

[Jords]

Really!? Locke you have gone up in my estimations, Jamie was great.

[Locke.]

Originally Posted by Jords

Really!? Locke you have gone up in my estimations, Jamie was great.

I should have already been sky high

But yeah I was one of his only fans on here, used to be arguing with Setanta every week about it. Liked Olly and Danyl aswell, didn't really like any of the others.

[bbfan1991]

Originally Posted by Jords

^
Its not her fault, but its made her much more aragont.

Each to their own, I disagree and we don't really know any of the acts apart from what we see on the show, however backstage might be way different than what they are portrayed.

[Locke.]

I watched all her video diarys last night she comes across really well, I agree that she comes across a bit arrogant when they talk to her on the actual show... But on the video diarys she is more like she was on her audition.