[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by ElProximo

Exactly. That is what I was getting at.

ah ok, I see what you were saying now, that's a fair point.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by ElProximo

Well if your presumption was correct and there is no difference then YOU would be a hypocrite for having different level of respect.

Not at all. I'm the one who has been giving the argument that no belief system is obligated respect - therefore it is up to me to choose what to respect.

rk3388 said on the other hand, and I quote, 'I do respect everyone and their beliefs' but then goes on to say Atheism he has no respect for.

So yeah. I won't even bother trying to tackle the rest Sailor Boy. You're far, far from the grasp of reality and I wouldn't ever bother trying to reason with you.

[BB_Eye]

Originally Posted by ElProximo

Well if your presumption was correct and there is no difference then YOU would be a hypocrite for having different level of respect.

Then again I don't think you practice what you preach. I suspect you have a lot of respect for someone who (going to guesstimate) someone who was raised in a strict fundamentalist Christian home but somewhere in University fell into Rastafarianism... but a kind of 'Agnosticism',
versus,
a hardcore Scientologist.
I am going to guess you have have a healthy level of respect for the former and you have little respect for the latter?

Anyways, I do have varying levels of respect for whatever belief systems and worldviews.
High on my list would be Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, and then much lower would be Islam,
and,
then I have very little respect for Scientology, Mormonism,
but,
Way way at the bottom is the belief system that is nearly by 'definition' the stupidest most illogical unreasonable belief system on the planet and that is Atheism.
Naturalistic Atheism. I mean this is a belief based on what could actually be a 'childrens first lesson' on illogical statements:
From Nothing came Something.

Spoken like a theologian. Have you never stopped to consider these two things? That since mass and energy can only be converted into energy and vice versa, that the beginning of the universe was completely spontaneous and that this fundamental physical property of all matter and energy mean that no causal relationship between matter and a non-corporeal deity is even possible? Also since time is finite (and not even completely linear as we've discovered in the past century), the Big Bang wasn't an event that occured somewhere along some abstract timeline of infinity, but in fact was the beginning full stop? It's emininently logical

Originally Posted by ElProximo

I mean seriously, if you had to stay up all night inventing the 'stupidest thing ever said' and hired professional writers and philosophers you would eventually come up with:
Something came from Nothing.

The Dictionary could use Atheism as an example near 'Stupid'. It is such a stupid belief system it makes Scientology slightly credible. That is amazing.

So yes I do have various degrees of respect but that is speaking to the belief system. Not the person themselves.
It is true that most Atheists are shltheads, bitter apples and dicks,
but,
I'm also aware that many of them are just scared or willfully ignorant or just naive enough like we all are. In a very human way.
For them, 'naturalistic evolutionism' is a comforting 'fairie tale for adults' that they need to help them get through life. A 'crutch' if you will. or a 'blinder' helping them avoid facing the scary.. actually terrifying idea of an afterlife and more specifically a 'Maker' whom they might just need to answer to.
I can respect that person. Also they may be quite good at many other things.

What is this born-again protestant fixation with trying to discredit the natural sciences? Even Catholics and Eastern Orthodox Christians know better and have done for a long time. Not even Augustine and the earlier Church fathers took the Creation story literally and we are talking about a man who ushered in the dark ages. I'm glad you say you respect such people (after insisting over 9000 times that you didn't, but then consistency is not really your strong point), otherwise there wouldn't be many people left to respect.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Liberty4eva

Religion does not deserve respect. Probably my biggest gripe against it is it targets children who are the most vulnerable members of society. It deserves to be mocked.

Bang On Right.

[Judas]

Of course it does, it is plan disrespectfull to openly disrespect someones belief system or culture. Anyone who tries to justify otherwise is wrong.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Judas

Of course it does, it is plan disrespectfull to openly disrespect someones belief system or culture. Anyone who tries to justify otherwise is wrong.

Does that extend to those glorious cultures and belief systems that include hanging homosexuals and stoning women to death?

[Lee.]

Live and let live, that's what I say.

I have no religion myself, but if people feel better within themselves by attending church or paraying to a god or whatever, then so be it

[Livia]

I respect people who deserve respect, regardless of their religion. What religion people follow is probably the last question I would think to ask anyone.

[Judas]

Originally Posted by Stu

Does that extend to those glorious cultures and belief systems that include hanging homosexuals and stoning women to death?

This is a tricky issue but obviously a very important one, and when reading what I respond you have to take into account we are both from westernised backgrounds.

The religion still needs respecting; but the extremist practises do not. I feel we must respect all religions - but not neccesarily the practises that have grown alongside it and the culture. Maybe I should of said all beliefs need respecting - and within your belief you must have some kind of respect for others and their welfare.

Again I understand religion isn't exactally known for being inclusive - I just feel they must continue to adapt to the world we live in, and it's too simple to simply slam all religons as institutions full of hate and homophobia.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Judas

This is a tricky issue but obviously a very important one, and when reading what I respond you have to take into account we are both from westernised backgrounds.

The religion still needs respecting; but the extremist practises do not. I feel we must respect all religions - but not neccesarily the practises that have grown alongside it and the culture. Maybe I should of said all beliefs need respecting - and within your belief you must have some kind of respect for others and their welfare.

Again I understand religion isn't exactally known for being inclusive - I just feel they must continue to adapt to the world we live in, and it's too simple to simply slam all religons as institutions full of hate and homophobia.

I'm not slamming all religions as institutions full of hate and homophobia but you cannot just cherry pick which bits are the religion and which bits are the laws and acts you don't like which as a sudden concequence you see fit to seperate from the religion.

Some people are influenced by the message of Jesus to help others. I respect that. Some people are influenced by the message of the Koran to stone adulteresses to death. I don't respect that. It all comes from belief however.

It's not extremist in those countries. They have laws for it. It's seen as fairly normal. Those laws are directly based on their interpretation of the Koran. You can't simply allow for exceptions in the 'respect others beliefs' argument just because it's reached the point where you don't like something.

We all pick and choose what to respect even if we say otherwise and that's absoloutely fine. We are, apparently, highly evolved, cognitive creatures capable of making rational judgement after all.

The idea that something deserves automatic respect just because it is a religious belief is quite frankly absurd. Nothing seperates Christian missionaries, Rastafari ganja smokers, and Buddhist meditators from suicide bombers and beheaders of Western journalists as far as beliefs go. They each have a belief that they call their own and believe in. They all qualify for being religious beliefs.

They don't all qualify for my respect.

[Crimson Dynamo]

The problem with religion in the UK is the fact that it has invaded schools and curriculum's as well as politics.

You cannot live and let live when the above scandal is in operation.

[BB_Eye]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

The problem with religion in the UK is the fact that it has invaded schools and curriculum's as well as politics.

You cannot live and let live when the above scandal is in operation.

Although the flipside to this austerity budget debacle is no more free bus passes for faith school children.

[InOne]

Islam and culture often seem to merge together when it suits them. Sometimes they blame culture, sometimes their religion. Can never make their mind up

[ElProximo]

Originally Posted by Stu

rk3388 said on the other hand, and I quote, 'I do respect everyone and their beliefs' but then goes on to say Atheism he has no respect for.

Right. He seemed to think it wasn't a belief system. Otherwise, it remains that you would be a hypocrite IF you did expect 'equal respect'.

Can you try and make that clearer as it does not make sense?

Keep working on it yourself.

Not even Augustine and the earlier Church fathers took the Creation story literally and we are talking about a man who ushered in the dark ages.

Yes they did and there were no 'dark ages' ushered in by anyone.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Livia

I respect people who deserve respect, regardless of their religion. What religion people follow is probably the last question I would think to ask anyone.

I 100% agree with this.