[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Niall

I'm pro-choice. It's a women's perogative over what she wants to do with her body so to my mind it's a moral thing.

But it's not just about her body, it's about another body she has created with somebody else. Why should they not have a say or be part of the discussion?

[Niall]

Originally Posted by 08marsh

But it's not just about her body, it's about another body she has created with somebody else. Why should they not have a say or be part of the discussion?

Because that person isn't going to be carrying, and providing sustenance, and ultimately going through a ****load of pain for that child?

I get what you're saying, but it's a flimsy argument imo. The other person isn't going to have to go through everything the mother will do for 9 months. They'll just sit around in that time waiting for the baby to be born.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Niall

Because that person isn't going to be carrying, and providing sustenance, and ultimately going through a ****load of pain for that child?

I get what you're saying, but it's a flimsy argument imo. The other person isn't going to have to go through everything the mother will do for 9 months. They'll just sit around in that time waiting for the baby to be born.

everyone agrees if its a complex pregnancy then of course the womens health is 100% main priority. but now its become too black and white, the moral question is removed, the result is 191,000 abortions and in many cases women and men regretting this forever

what were really arguing over is 1) the lateness of some abortions,2)also the encouragement thats been in force for aborting babies, resulting in 191000 babies killed each year. 3)the lack of information and options being made available to these pregnant women and the fathers and extended families. Its become a political issue when it really should be a medical and moral one.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Niall

Because that person isn't going to be carrying, and providing sustenance, and ultimately going through a ****load of pain for that child?

I get what you're saying, but it's a flimsy argument imo. The other person isn't going to have to go through everything the mother will do for 9 months. They'll just sit around in that time waiting for the baby to be born.

If the baby will cause medical/health complications for the mother then you're right.

But I don't think it's a flimsy argument at all. Regardless of the 9 months carrying, the baby is as much the father's as it is the mother's. It disgusts me that their feelings on the matter are ignored.

They just sit around waiting for the baby to be born? How ridiculous.
They don't have the chance to have their own baby inside them so they can't have a say in someone killing their own? Disgusting.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by 08marsh

If the baby will cause medical/health complications for the mother then you're right.

But I don't think it's a flimsy argument at all. Regardless of the 9 months carrying, the baby is as much the father's as it is the mother's. It disgusts me that their feelings on the matter are ignored.

They just sit around waiting for the baby to be born? How ridiculous.
They don't have the chance to have their own baby inside them so they can't have a say in someone killing their own? Disgusting.

100% agree, the unborn childs feelings are ignored and the fathers isnt even allowed to have an opinion in the killing of his own child? this situation is insane. a better far more intelligent, far deeper, far more caring compassionate balance must be found....the current mindless mass murder is driven by the ...Im a woman ill have as much sex as i like and kill as many babies in my womb as i like, maybe ill kill them with drugs, or booze, or abortions or maybe ill just do it as revenge? a balance should be found , this whole nightmare issue must be better regulated and families must be allowed far greater attention, options and information. ofcourse education must also improve. but it never does.

[Kizzy]

I know we all have differing opinions, but one thing is certain...
There are no easy options and no right or wrong answers.
The topic has so many, moral, social and ethical connotations that it makes it impossible reach a tangible conclusion.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kizzy

I know we all have differing opinions, but one thing is certain...
There are no easy options and no right or wrong answers.
The topic has so many, moral, social and ethical connotations that it makes it impossible reach a tangible conclusion.

Sorry to quote myself, but feel I need to reiterate why this issue will never be accepted by those socialized in such a way that their view on this issue is fundamentally inherent.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by kizzy

Sorry to quote myself, but feel I need to reiterate why this issue will never be accepted by those socialized in such a way that their view on this issue is fundamentally inherent.

i agree its sad but many here have been socialized in such a way they dont seem able to comprehend the tragedy of the unborn child ., nor do they account for the varying standards of abortion clinics and the lack of options given to the mothers and their families. These radicals need to be more open minded.

[Jake.]

Is sexism to that degree even allowed on here? You clearly have a problem against women

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by JH95

Is sexism to that degree even allowed on here? You clearly have a problem against women

Clearly it is.

[Marsh.]

Who's being sexist?

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by 08marsh

Who's being sexist?

The Truth.

[Jake.]

The truth as always, he has this strange thing against women and its always confused me, it might not be full in your face but its not the first time hes gone on about women in that way

[the truth]

Originally Posted by JH95

The truth as always, he has this strange thing against women and its always confused me, it might not be full in your face but its not the first time hes gone on about women in that way

over half the murdered babies are female, im fighting for them. youre the sexist

[Marsh.]

Well, I wouldn't question what is or isn't allowed on here. Hypocrisy rules.

[Lee.]

Anyone who has carried a baby knows how early on in the pregnancy you feel those first little fluttery feelings of life and how strong their heartbeat sounds at the 12 week scan... even a 12 week foetus has a brain, a beating heart, limbs, facial features etc; how anyone can decide to cut that little life short, (regardless of circumstances) is actually beyond me.

[Suze]

Originally Posted by Lee.

Anyone who has carried a baby knows how early on in the pregnancy you feel those fiesta little fluttery feelings of life and how strong their heartbeat sounds at the 12 week scan... even a 12 week foetus has a brain, a beating heart, limbs, facial features etc; how anyone can decide to cut that little life short, (regardless of circumstances) is actually beyond me.

I could never do it no matter what, as it would play on me that I had taken a little life created through aborthion and feel I have no right to. That is just my opinion on abortion though, and no two people are the same and so we all make our own choices through life, whether seen as wrong or right and we then have to live with those choices. I just know that I am pretty much anti abortion, when there are especially so many couples wanting to adopt babies to bring up as their own in a hopefully loving enviroment. Even though giving up a baby for adoption could be heartbreaking, at least the baby would be given a gift of life, once aborted, that decision can never be changed. I also think a dad even if they don't have to carry the babies, not their fault after all, should have a say, many dads lose out on getting custody or part custody of their children through seperation or divorce as it is.

[Niamh.]

It's interesting you say that Lee, I noticed of the people who voted Right-Pro Choice none of them are parents (I don't think anyway!) *Don't bite my head off btw, I'm not saying you can't have an opinion on it if you're not a parent* I just think it's an interesting observation

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

It's interesting you say that Lee, I noticed of the people who voted Right-Pro Choice none of them are parents (I don't think anyway!) *Don't bite my head off btw, I'm not saying you can't have an opinion on it if you're not a parent* I just think it's an interesting observation

I am pro choice niamh.
That said I support a 20wk limit.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by kizzy

I am pro choice niamh.
That said I support a 20wk limit.

I did say those who voted "Right-Pro choice" and you didn't actually vote for that

[Lee.]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

It's interesting you say that Lee, I noticed of the people who voted Right-Pro Choice none of them are parents (I don't think anyway!) *Don't bite my head off btw, I'm not saying you can't have an opinion on it if you're not a parent* I just think it's an interesting observation

Yeah it is actually... I think actually going through pregnancy and childbirth can change your mind about these sort of subjects.


I remember turning up at the hospital for an appointment when I was pregnant with child1.. I dint really know why I was there and they explained it was for blood tests to see if there was any chance she could be Downs or Spina Bifida... you then had to wait for aged for the test results, THEN actually get the baby tested. I told them it just sounded like a big worry test .. they asked me if I would terminate if my baby was Downs Syndrome and I was just horrified.. I'd felt her move, heard her heartbeat and already felt super protective of her. I told them absolutely no way! And they just sent me home without having the tests done. I just can't imagine allowing somebody to remove my living baby from my body and killing it. The thought of it shocks me tbh.

[Ammi]

..I'm coming around to the opinion that I'm pro-choice..I don't agree with the 20wk time period, but I do think that it isn't for anyone else to say what the right or wrong circumstances to have a child is for others...I do, however agree with Vicky, that 'multiple' abortions shouldn't be allowed...if you've gone through an abortion before then a second or third time is inexcusable.....

..I am a mother and I would never have aborted any of my pregnancies but it's not for me to say that my views should apply to others....

[Lee.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I'm coming around to the opinion that I'm pro-choice..I don't agree with the 20wk time period, but I do think that it isn't for anyone else to say what the right or wrong circumstances to have a child is for others...I do, however agree with Vicky, that 'multiple' abortions shouldn't be allowed...if you've gone through an abortion before then a second or third time is inexcusable.....

..I am a mother and I would never have aborted any of my pregnancies but it's not for me to say that my views should apply to others....

Is it not 24 weeks?

I think this needs to be reduced drastically! My friend had her baby at 26 weeks and she survived. I think 8-12 weeks us the latest it should be

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Lee.

Is it not 24 weeks?

I think this needs to be reduced drastically! My friend had her baby at 26 weeks and she survived. I think 8-12 weeks us the latest it should be

The problem with this is the tests you mentioned above. The original downs/spina bifada tests are done between 10-14 weeks. They cant be done earlier than that, nothing would show up. If you are considered 'high risk' (under 1/100 chance I *think*) you are offered more tests..this is after waiting a week/fortnight for the results of the first one (so you could be16 weeks gone by the time you got the results). No idea how long the other tests take as I had a 1/70,000 chance so they didnt even discuss that with me.

90% of abortions are carried out in the first trimester anyway, I would imagine this is most of those who are doing it for anything other than medical reasons (excluding those who do not realise until late on that they are pregnant). Reducing the limit to 12 weeks would only force people to carry on with pregnancies where there are 'problems' (I say problems like that as not everyone would see having a severely disabled child as a 'problem', but some would)


I guess it could be a 8/12 week limit unless there is a valid medical reason (not including cleft lip etc that are classed as reasons to get late abortions now ) but this still has the problem of those who dont even realise they are pregnant until they are quite late on :/

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Lee.

Is it not 24 weeks?

I think this needs to be reduced drastically! My friend had her baby at 26 weeks and she survived. I think 8-12 weeks us the latest it should be

..yeah, for some reason I thought it was 12 weeks, I agree that the term when it is allowed is barbaric...