[Kyle]

Originally Posted by Roy Mars III

I disagree. I have met very few atheists who did not discriminate against religious people and vice versa

Don't worry I'm sure it will never get to the point where people are burnt at the stake for being religious.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Roy Mars III

I disagree. I have met very few atheists who did not discriminate against religious people

really? that sounds shocking, i'm sure you have some examples to share with me, because i haven't seen that at all.

Can you name any cases you know of where atheists tried to force religious people into camps and convert them to atheism?(i can find plenty of cases where religious people have done that to atheists)

Can you name any cases where atheists tried to force religious people to denounce their god under the law? (I can name several cases of religious people doing that to atheists)

I'm talking about the modern Western World by the way, obviously.

[Gstar]

Religion isn't the only thing though

What about the government, war, racism etc.

[Ninastar]

Originally Posted by Roy Mars III

People talk about how religious people discriminate against people, yet religious people are discriminated against just as much but that's okay for whatever reason

also i believe this is 100% true.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Simple Minds

Don't worry I'm sure it will never get to the point where people are burnt at the stake for being religious.

Considering the evils that religious institutions have enacted on the human mind and body in the past I have very little sympathy for the poor armchair religionists who feel persecuted by YouTube comment warriors telling them there is no god.

Poor creatures. Give me a break.

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by Germyle

Religion isn't the only thing though

What about the government, war, racism etc.

As I have said about 3 times before in this thread religion shouldn't take all the flack by any means.

Religion is a hot topic though and opinions are always very strong on the matter so it's no surprise it's turned into a debate about that.

[lostalex]

I have as much contempt for religion, especially fundamentalist religion as anyone on this world, but do i want the Westboro Baptist Church(the god hates fags people) to go to jail for their hate speech? never. Would i want them to be forced to denounce their religion, or be forced to apologize to me or any other person they have offended? no. Why? because as loathsome as their ideology is, they have been peaceful. As long as you are peaceful, as long as you don't actually have power to force your religion onto the rest of us, i will respect your right to be offensive, and religion is hate speech, all of it. I can't name a single religion that doesn't have some sort of discrimination or hate speech in it's ideology, but as long as it's peaceful, i can tolerate it.

And they must learn to tolerate all of the people they disagree with in a peaceful way aswell.

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by Stu

Considering the evils that religious institutions have enacted on the human mind and body in the past I have very little sympathy for the poor armchair religionists who feel persecuted by YouTube comment warriors telling them there is no god.

Poor creatures. Give me a break.

Listen I can't speak for the guys in the U.S I don't live there and I've never been so I have no idea what it's like for them.

But where I'm from in the U.K I honestly can't see persecution of religious people, at least by atheists. The only thing I can think of is occasional attacks by E.D.L extremists on mosques but they have the intelligence of a cardboard box and only seem to have it in for Islam.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Roy Mars III

People talk about how religious people discriminate against people, yet religious people are discriminated against just as much but that's okay for whatever reason

I disagree, I have absolutely no problem with religious people, in fact I couldn't give a ****** what people want to believe in and in all honesty religious beliefs do have positive functions, but what I don't like and oppose is organised religion, religion having power and influence over governments and social policies and the indoctrination and forcefulness it can sometimes have through things like faith schools and parents telling their children what to believe

Religion should be a private and personal belief which arises out of your own choice after questioning yourself about the world around you

I have no issue with religious people whatsoever, but I disagree that opposing the stuff I've listed means I'm discriminating against them. Criticising their actual religion maybe, but criticising their choice to be religious? No

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Ninastar

also i believe this is 100% true.

really? you agree that religious people are discriminated against JUST AS MUCH?

I don't think the facts will back you guys up on that. To say that atheists have discriminated against religious people JUST AS MUCH as they discriminate against women, against gays, against other religions, i just don't believe that to be true. Certainly not from what i've witnessed in this lifetime.

[Gstar]

I actually agree with what Lostalex said

[Kizzy]

Verbal just stick to the discussion I'm sure SM wouldn't want you drawn out and risk derailing a great thread.
I've really enjoyed reading everyones views on this topic.

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Verbal just stick to the discussion I'm sure SM wouldn't want you drawn out and risk derailing a great thread.
I've really enjoyed reading everyones views on this topic.

I don't want anyone to get banned more than anything I'm not really bothered about the thread being derailed, I've derailed enough people's threads in my time on here lol

[Roy Mars III]

I was talking about discrimination, the examples you are talking about are a lot more serious than what I would call discrimination.

I hesitate to get into this, but whatever

The two biggest tragedies of recent history have been done by non religious people. Hitler* (religion is replaced by National Socialism) and the Soviet Union (though I am sure this will be debated because arguably none of it was done in the 'name of atheism' thus should not be considered)

*No matter what some people argue Hitler was anti-Christian (though he tried to hide this). The Nazi party did call itself a Catholic Party in the early years but that had more to do with getting more people from Catholic Bavaria to join the Nazi Party than actually being a religious party.

I am no religious apologist, it is responsible for some terrible things but history would be no less violent without it. People are violent, simple as.

[Verbal]

I've made my point

As you were

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by Verbal

I've made my point

As you were

And I'm sure you have many more to make on this topic. I'd rather you still contributed to the debate.

[Kizzy]

I'm not an atheist, but I have a great distrust of religious people... not even sure why myself.
I feel it's a cover for something lol! Doing what you feel is right for you is excellent... When you force others to conform it becomes wrong.
Impacting on others in the name of religion is wrong. Civility, morality and unity is achievable without religion.

[Roy Mars III]

Originally Posted by Roy Mars III

I was talking about discrimination, the examples you are talking about are a lot more serious than what I would call discrimination.

I hesitate to get into this, but whatever

The two biggest tragedies of recent history have been done by non religious people. Hitler* (religion is replaced by National Socialism) and the Soviet Union (though I am sure this will be debated because arguably none of it was done in the 'name of atheism' thus should not be considered)

*No matter what some people argue Hitler was anti-Christian (though he tried to hide this). The Nazi party did call itself a Catholic Party in the early years but that had more to do with getting more people from Catholic Bavaria to join the Nazi Party than actually being a religious party.

I am no religious apologist, it is responsible for some terrible things but history would be no less violent without it. People are violent, simple as.

I did not mean for this to be examples of atheist violence against religious people, only that people would be just as violent without religion

Religion is just a good tool to control people, but there are many others

[Kyle]

I agree with your point Kizzy but religion has had enough of a bashing in my opinion and for the religious contributers like Salman I don't think it's fair on him.

I want to try another aspect of our nature if I may?

Are we inherently racist?

Bear with me on this I am just asking the question. We see with animals that in a lot of cases they tend to stick with their own social groups and genus. Personally I see it too with a pretty large majority of people in relationships (there are exceptions of course).

Is it inbuilt within us to generally stick with our own ethnicity? Is a small part to play on this part of our animalistic approach to sex and reproduction?

I welcome your opinions on this...

[Stu]

I'd say inherently tribal is more exact. Racism is a manifestation of this.

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by Stu

I'd said inherently tribal is more exact. Racism is a manifestation of this.

Stu I like your contributions on these threads and I know what point you are making here but could you beef it out a little for us. Are we still as Tribal now as we were during the Colonial era? What constitutes tribal? Can people of the same ethnicity be separated by tribes?

[Roy Mars III]

Originally Posted by Simple Minds

I agree with your point Kizzy but religion has had enough of a bashing in my opinion and for the religious contributers like Salman I don't think it's fair on him.

I want to try another aspect of our nature if I may?

Are we inherently racist?

Bear with me on this I am just asking the question. We see with animals that in a lot of cases they tend to stick with their own social groups and genus. Personally I see it too with a pretty large majority of people in relationships (there are exceptions of course).

Is it inbuilt within us to generally stick with our own ethnicity? Is a small part to play on this part of our animalistic approach to sex and reproduction?

I welcome your opinions on this...

People like feeling comfortable, and they feel most comfortable around people who look and think like them

don't know if that should be considered racism or not

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by Roy Mars III

People like feeling comfortable, and they feel most comfortable around people who look and think like them

don't know if that should be considered racism or not

Yeh I realise in my eagerness to divert the subject a little I may have used a word that's a bit too evocative of slavery and other past demeanours. I assure you I did not mean for that.

I think you and Stu illustrated it a bit better.

Do you think it's in our make up or it's a trait that with time and hundreds of years of multiculturalism we can 'grow out of' for want of a better phrase?

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Simple Minds

Stu I like your contributions on these threads and I know what point you are making here but could you beef it out a little for us. Are we still as Tribal now as we were during the Colonial era? What constitutes tribal? Can people of the same ethnicity be separated by tribes?

Tribalism is something that seemingly mutates as we do. As cultures and technologies become increasingly sophisticated tribalism denatures from it's more obvious expressions into more insidious forms. So it's different for all parts of the globe really. Some parts of the world still have very obvious incarnations of hunter gatherer tribalism whilst here in the Western world it is trickier to pinpoint but still existent under our hoods.

Street gangs are an expression of tribalism. To an extent churches can be an expression of tribalism. Tribalism has even transformed to find a place in consumerism when you think about it. Marketing and advertising create tribalism between different classes and aesthetics. Bob has an Xbox and Billy has a PlayStation. My dad has a suit and your dad has a shitty car that can barely run.

In the modern world it's less of a physically damaging, violent tribalism. Instead it's a tribalism of the ego. The end result still involves our base carnal nature prevailing. Egos set against each other, bodies set against each other. Seperation. The animal as individual, individual as animal.

Like I alluded to in my first post I have cultivated a vague set of beliefs that tell me this is not our end goal nor is it the true nature of the universe.

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by Stu

Tribalism is something that seemingly mutates as we do. As cultures and technologies become increasingly sophisticated tribalism denatures from it's more obvious expressions into more insidious forms. So it's different for all parts of the globe really. Some parts of the world still have very obvious incarnations of hunter gatherer tribalism whilst here in the Western world it is trickier to pinpoint but still existent under our hoods.

Street gangs are an expression of tribalism. To an extent churches can be an expression of tribalism. Tribalism has even transformed to find a place in consumerism when you think about it. Marketing and advertising create tribalism between different classes and aesthetics. Bob has an Xbox and Billy has a PlayStation. My dad has a suit and your dad has a shitty car that can barely run.

In the modern world it's less of a physically damaging, violent tribalism. Instead it's a tribalism of the ego. The end result still involves our base carnal nature prevailing. Egos set against each other, bodies set against each other. Seperation. The animal as individual, individual as animal.

Like I alluded to in my first post I have cultivated a vague set of beliefs that tell me this is not our end goal nor is it the true nature of the universe.

Absolutely.

As a species we have done very little to rid ourselves of this social group mentality where we stick within our own micro communities and can be distrusting toward outsiders.

A good example of pack mentality is at football matches. People in large groups tend to find the bar of acceptable behaviour seems to drop and no longer being 'alone' and vulnerable often gives them a platform for bravado and thuggery.