[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

It's not about what you think. It's about facts lady.

But like, all the contestants who are in the Vote to Win are finalists, how would it be fair for her to by pass a couple of days worth of votes and beat other finalists when she's not even able to be voted out?

[Babayaro.]

I can see all of them exept from Helen being up for eviction but not knowing they are. Then a secret eviction of some sorts on Monday. Nothing will beat 2008's secret eviction though!

[mrflibble]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Yeah if they said they're all finalists...they are all finalists and aren't being evicted until...you guessed it...the final night. Which is the final. If they're planning to have a midweek eviction then telling them they're all finalists is a deliberate lie to give them a false sense of security, and I don't actually recall them ever having done that. Usually they tell them they're finalists when there's going to be no more evictions.

My only issue with it is if they call them finalists and it's not the final vote. To me, the final vote is the final and all finalists are involved. It doesn't make sense otherwise. If they say 'there is one more vote before the final' then that's legit. I don't care whether the final is the final week or the final vote or the final night but everyone who is a FINALIST needs to be on the same equal grounds.

[Yaki da]

Originally Posted by Jack_

No they are not, finalists are those who are there in the BIG BROTHER FINAL. You know that live show that's listed like that on TV guides on the last day of each series? Yeah that's right it's called the final, and that's where the pass takes her. If you don't make the final show, you are NOT a finalist. You are an evictee.

If you go out first as part of a vote to win out of a final lineup, you are a finalist regardless of whether there were 12 of you or 3 of you.

As I've already said, had this pass gone to a dullard (thank God it didn't) we wouldn't be having this discussion and none of the people crying all series for her to leave before the final would have cared.

What people are concerned about is that they will not open the vote to win on Friday and have some ridiculous eviction again that leads to a popular HM who might have won being evicted.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

But like, all the contestants who are in the Vote to Win are finalists, how would it be fair for her to by pass a couple of days worth of votes and beat other finalists when she's not even able to be voted out?

That's why I said if there is a midweek eviction then it can't be a vote to win excluding Helen as it doesn't make any sense.

But channel 5 have completely disregarded 99% of BB law so. I wouldn't be surprised either way.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

But like, all the contestants who are in the Vote to Win are finalists, how would it be fair for her to by pass a couple of days worth of votes and beat other finalists when she's not even able to be voted out?

I also think in the last series,secrets and lies, they did an eviction before the day of the final but the housemates had been told they were finalists when they really weren't, hence an eviction before the day of the final.

[HBB1508]

So I wonder how they are going to work it if they open the VTW lines after the eviction on Friday - if they then freeze the lines for a mid week eviction then carry over the other votes then Helen will be at a massive disadvantage if no one can vote for her for the first few days - not sure how that will work.

[MB.]

Helen wouldn't finish last in a vote to win with this line-up anyway, so this whole argument has been kinda pointless

[Yaki da]

Originally Posted by HBB1508

So I wonder how they are going to work it if they open the VTW lines after the eviction on Friday - if they then freeze the lines for a mid week eviction then carry over the other votes then Helen will be at a massive disadvantage if no one can vote for her for the first few days - not sure how that will work.

Not really. The vote to win is the start of the final... She is at that point a finalist... so her free pass has taken her to the final. That's all it was going to do. From that point onwards, it's up to the public whether or not she actually makes the very last night.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

That's why I said if there is a midweek eviction then it can't be a vote to win excluding Helen as it doesn't make any sense.

But channel 5 have completely disregarded 99% of BB law so. I wouldn't be surprised either way.

Ah ok, I'm so confused

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I also think in the last series,secrets and lies, they did an eviction before the day of the final but the housemates had been told they were finalists when they really weren't, hence an eviction before the day of the final.

If it were an eviction then that would make more sense, she just has to be involved from the start in a Vote to Win

[mrflibble]

Originally Posted by HBB1508

So I wonder how they are going to work it if they open the VTW lines after the eviction on Friday - if they then freeze the lines for a mid week eviction then carry over the other votes then Helen will be at a massive disadvantage if no one can vote for her for the first few days - not sure how that will work.

Yeah that's what I was thinking. Only in a VTE would she have the advantage and that wouldn't be the final vote. So there must be a final VTE or something over the weekend.

[Yaki da]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

That's why I said if there is a midweek eviction then it can't be a vote to win excluding Helen as it doesn't make any sense.

But channel 5 have completely disregarded 99% of BB law so. I wouldn't be surprised either way.

She'd still be a finalist. I don't recall them saying she would be there on the last night. She had a free pass up to... The final. The final begins when the vote to win starts. That's what her pass was up to.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

If it were an eviction then that would make more sense, she just has to be involved from the start in a Vote to Win

That's it. They'd have to have an eviction vote but then some people said they don't like having less than a week to vote for the winner.

I don't think it makes much of a difference these days with a much smaller viewership.

[Yaki da]

Originally Posted by mrflibble

Yeah that's what I was thinking. Only in a VTE would she have the advantage and that wouldn't be the final vote. So there must be a final VTE or something over the weekend.

Not at all. And if there is there will be outrage, because someone like Ashleigh could go out over the boring men in such a vote.

Her free pass took her to the final. The final begins when the vote to win which culminates on the last night, begins. If she doesn't make the last night, it's because in the final vote she didn't get enough votes.

[Marsh.]

So therefore, the final vote should begin AFTER the final eviction. Whether a final eviction sees your favourite out or not, which as it stands it's not very likely Ashleigh would go.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

That's it. They'd have to have an eviction vote but then some people said they don't like having less than a week to vote for the winner.

I don't think it makes much of a difference these days with a much smaller viewership.

I would prefer this Eviction on Friday to be the last tbh, we're getting rid of two of them so we could have all the rest as finalists and a proper length of time for voting as well

[Yaki da]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

So therefore, the final vote should begin AFTER the final eviction.

The final begins when the final vote begins. If Stuart was a part of the final vote in BB5 then he was a finalist. It's just a vote freeze took him out before the last night. He was not voted out, he was just the person with the fewest votes out of the final vote.

Helen's free pass was to take her to the final. If they have a midweek eviction, and she goes out, it's because as a finalist, she didn't get enough votes to make the last night.

And if they do use what you're saying as some justification for another eviction that takes out a potential winner, they will just cause outrage all over again.

[Jack_]

Marsh also raised a good point in that Davina (and Brian and Emma) have always said during midweek evictions before the final that 'someone's going to be evicted two/three days before the final...sucks doesn't it' or words to that effect. That's the whole point of those evictions, to have the evictee just miss out on a place in the final. If you are evicted before the final night, you are NOT a finalist.

I'm done here. It's an objective fact and not a discussion, this is only happening because people are desperate for Helen to leave before the final and have been all series and just want to find a reason to justify it. You all know full well what a finalist is and it's the people that are there on the final night. Citing being a part of a vote to win as a reason for being a finalist is ridiculous since a vote to win is just a vote to save renamed, you're voting to keep people in the house as long as possible on the final night so that they stand a chance of being the last one standing to be crowned the winner. If a midweek eviction happens you're voting to save them from not being a part of it and missing out on a place in the final. It's the same thing, a vote to win is a vote to save. I didn't see any of you calling all of the housemates throughout BB12 and 13 and all the C5 celebrity series finalists from day one? Because by that logic that's what they were.

This is a ridiculous discussion that only has one answer and the other side of it is going to go round and round in circles because people hate Helen, that's all there is to it. If she leaves before the final night, she wasn't a finalist and therefore her pass failed. That's all there is to it.

Originally Posted by Niamh.

But like, all the contestants who are in the Vote to Win are finalists, how would it be fair for her to by pass a couple of days worth of votes and beat other finalists when she's not even able to be voted out?

It wouldn't be, hence why I said on the first page that I hope they aren't doing a midweek eviction since if she was evicted her pass would've been a lie and obviously they couldn't make her immune from it since that would be unfair. If they want a midweek eviction it has to be a vote to evict with her excluded as usual. But I don't want that since that's not enough time for a vote to win. If they open the VTW lines then there should not be a midweek eviction.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I would prefer this Eviction on Friday to be the last tbh, we're getting rid of two of them so we could have all the rest as finalists and a proper length of time for voting as well

Yeah, I hate these large finals on C5. I like it being whittled down to 4 or 5. But on this occasion it seems the fairest way, they've twisted themselves to buggery this series.

[mrflibble]

Originally Posted by Yaki da

Not at all. And if there is there will be outrage, because someone like Ashleigh could go out over the boring men in such a vote.

Her free pass took her to the final. The final begins when the vote to win which culminates on the last night, begins. If she doesn't make the last night, it's because in the final vote she didn't get enough votes.

What I meant was if they started a VTW without Helen, froze it on Monday to evict someone and then reopened it with Helen for the final night then she would be at a massive disadvantage because she would lose 3 days of votes.

And yes I agree that the final is what is at the end of the final vote which means that if there is another eviction it can't be an eviction with the finalists (which would mean Helen is the only finalist on Friday, if there's a separate eviction).

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Yaki da

The final begins when the final vote begins. If Stuart was a part of the final vote in BB5 then he was a finalist. It's just a vote freeze took him out before the last night. He was not voted out, he was just the person with the fewest votes out of the final vote.

Helen's free pass was to take her to the final. If they have a midweek eviction, and she goes out, it's because as a finalist, she didn't get enough votes to make the last night.

And if they do use what you're saying as some justification for another eviction that takes out a potential winner, they will just cause outrage all over again.

Which is what YOU think. The show itself states differently.

During Stu's eviction, Davina would stress how unlucky and "evil" it was for him to miss out on a finale place.

You can be pedantic over wording all you like simply because it's Helen.

[Yaki da]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Marsh also raised a good point in that Davina (and Brian and Emma) have always said during midweek evictions before the final that 'someone's going to be evicted two/three days before the final...sucks doesn't it' or words to that effect. That's the whole point of those evictions, to have the evictee just miss out on a place in the final. If you are evicted before the final night, you are NOT a finalist.

Yes you are. You are a finalist if you are part of the final vote.

I'm done here. It's an objective fact and not a discussion, this is only happening because people are desperate for Helen to leave before the final and have been all series and just want to find a reason to justify it.

Actually, it's not an objective fact at all. Hence the reason it's in dispute. What some are concerned about is them using this to justify something that takes out the potential winner before a vote to win.

You all know full well what a finalist is

Yes, someone who was part of the final vote to win.

and it's the people that are there on the final night.

No, it is not. The final of different events can go on for Days. But it begins on the first night.

Citing being a part of a vote to win as a reason for being a finalist is ridiculous since a vote to win is just a vote to save renamed

No it's not. The vote freezes and the votes to win remain counted. If they re-started the vote, you would have a point, but you don't.

you're voting to keep people in the house as long as possible on the final night so that they stand a chance of being the last one standing to be crowned the winner. If a midweek eviction happens you're voting to save them from not being a part of it and missing out on a place in the final.

No, when a vote to win starts you are voting for someone to win. That is an objective fact. And if you're a part of that vote to win then you are a finalist.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Yeah, I hate these large finals on C5. I like it being whittled down to 4 or 5. But on this occasion it seems the fairest way, they've twisted themselves to buggery this series.

Yeah definitely, I think more than any other year this Power thing has been probably the toughest and most mind ****-y whoever is left after Friday should be a finalist imo

[Yaki da]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Which is what YOU think. The show itself states differently.

During Stu's eviction, Davina would stress how unlucky and "evil" it was for him to miss out on a finale place.

So what? She used the wrong wording. Some presenters still say "up for nomination". He was part of a final vote that began on the Friday and led to him leaving on Wednesday. That same vote was frozen and re-opened afterwards. He was there fore part of a final vote with Nadia, Jason, Dan and Shell.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Yaki da

So what? She used the wrong wording.

She used the wrong wording for 11 years, Brian for 2 and Emma for 1 and now that Helen has a pass to the final we're finally correcting them all.