[bots]

School was never a happy place to be, not even in my day. The majority of children would always prefer to be doing something else than going to school or school work. That's been a pretty normal state of affairs throughout history. Of course the environment will change from area to area, but fundamentally, children are there to learn, and that's not normally all that enjoyable in a class room (although it can be).

Bullying on the other hand has no place in schools, and is something that can and should be wiped out, no debate necessary.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Children brag, though. Just because they aren't bringing their belongings to school, doesn't mean they aren't telling everyone about the things they've got at home, or the trips they've been on, or the new car their parents have, etc.

Now, that shouldn't really be a problem. Most are probably just excited and want to tell people, they're not trying to make anyone feel bad, it SHOULDN'T make anyone feel bad, people should be able to just be happy for their friends. However, as mentioned earlier, in a nation where "success" is measured by which job you have, how much money you have in the bank, what car you drive and where you went on holiday... there are all sorts of other issues tied up in this materialistic nonsense. The purpose and aim of the school system is completely involved in that lifestyle; kids are packed off to school at 4 / 5 years old for two reasons only.

1) So that their parents can get back into the workplace.

2) To start preparing the kids themselves for the workplace as early as possible.

Methods and standards of care vary across the board, but no matter how "nice" anyone is about it, that's the basics of what's going on. That's the system.




I think you're right in that it's more about their positivity but the question is, where does that positivity come from? Is it just being glad to be alive, is it just because they have sych horrors in their past to compare it to so they know that life is now so much better? Or is it partly cultural? I would imagine it is. The question, then, being: If these kids manage to be happy becuase they have a positive mindset and outlook on life... then what has gone so wrong here to make it so that children - whilst on the surface not having any of those horrors to contend with - have such a negative mindset?

The answer in my opinion is again, all down to how we define success in our culture. And how completely shallow, materialistic and empty it actually is when you really take a look at it. I wonder if kids maybe instinctually feel this. The mounting pressure to enter a rat-race that is for the vast majority of people, ultimately unfulfilling. And also, yes, as Rubymoo says, there is an element of freedom and responsibility that is completely denied to so many children here. To play outdoors without parents fretting about paedophiles, to climb a tree without being berated for it because they "might fall", to just be allowed to live and explore. Bad things happen, but people are paranoid, and they stifle their children because of that. People in cages are never going to be happy.




I understand that this is true as I know there are a lot of kids at my daughter's school who love going to after school club, but I have to add, this sort of goes in with what I was saying above. Kids love this after-school socialisation, even though it is completely supervised, and that's because they don't have adequate socialisation with their peers outside of school otherwise. Their aren't kids in their local area, or if there are, they aren't allowed out to spend time with them, because roads / paedophiles / bears and what not. Clubs and supervised play are better than nothing but they don't compare to the freedom to just be out, with friends, exploring, and really getting to know each other, outside of an organised environment.



As for this, I know this is the official line Ammi and I know that you really believe in it, but I have to be totally frank and say... it's close to worthless. It's false. Prescribed, curriculum-mandated "value" that really does at the end of the day just feel quite hollow... it's not the same as being truly respected, given responsibility and valued within a family or community. I guess I wouldn't even really call it "being valued"... "Every child matters because there's an official school pamphlet that says Every Child Matters in it so they must! Quick, find something that little Timmy is vaguely OK at and tell him he's awesome. Tomorrow it's Suzie. I'll print a certificate."

As a nation we treat children as inferior and inconvenient. Embryos that we have to push along into adulthood so that they can become "real people", and then we can give them freedom and respect, rather than appreciating that they already have lives and they need more room to live those lives.

..see, I'm not even going to comment on any of this..(mainly actually just because I can't atm/I'm all typed out..)...but I really do wish that you could spend more time in schools/our school/any school I have visited because athough, like in everything, there is always improvements to be made..(which is why other schools are always visited as well to look at their particular success..)...this is not 'in theory' TS and 'just something to be said'...children are most definitely not taught to be drones but very much encouraged to be themselves and have belief in themselves, whatever their abilities academically... but primary schools cannot do that alone, they can only be part of it with parents and the positivity has to come from them as well....

[Kizzy]

I didn't have that experience with my son, I moved him on the advice of parent liason from one school to a catholic primary .Things just got worse he was ignored and bullied, his yr5 teacher was forced to apologies to him for calling him a 'baby' due to his handwriting after he admitted this was the reason he wanted to kill himself...
He started high school with the magic level 4 in his SATS, he told his English teacher at high school his SENCO at his last school wrote all his work for him, when he was retested he was a 2C.
So all schools are not cocoons of educational nurturing, I've spoken to lots of parents who have had similar experiences, therefore the 'whatever their ability' part of that was definitely lacking in the schools we've had dealings with.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I didn't have that experience with my son, I moved him on the advice of parent liason from one school to a catholic primary .Things just got worse he was ignored and bullied, his yr5 teacher was forced to apologies to him for calling him a 'baby' due to his handwriting after he admitted this was the reason he wanted to kill himself...
He started high school with the magic level 4 in his SATS, he told his English teacher at high school his SENCO at his last school wrote all his work for him, when he was retested he was a 2C.
So all schools are not cocoons of educational nurturing, I've spoken to lots of parents who have had similar experiences, therefore the 'whatever their ability' part of that was definitely lacking in the schools we've had dealings with.

omg that's shocking Kizzy

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Ammi

children are most definitely not taught to be drones but very much encouraged to be themselves and have belief in themselves, whatever their abilities academically...

What you mean is that their strengths are identified and focussed on so that they can eventually go into a job / career that focusses on that strength and therefore be a more efficient cog in the machine. It is intrinsically the purpose of curriculum based education... there's no way around that.

If I am wrong, if it is not what schools are trying to do, then the only alternative is that schools are failing miserably in whatever it is they ARE trying to do, because we live in a nation of drones.

[Nedusa]

ADHD, Tourettes,ODD, OCD, Autism, Aspergers, Dyslexia are just a few of the disorders that seem to have exploded in numbers among adolescents.

Is it any wonder most are unhappy or depressed if they have to put up with any of the above.

In fact is it not strange just how many youngsters now seem to be afflicted by these disorders to one degree or another.Maybe there is more pollution in the air than we know or the food we buy now is not as healthy as we may think.

Either way I don't remember hardly any children in my youth being affected by all these disorders.

Food for thought ??

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

ADHD, Tourettes,ODD, OCD, Autism, Aspergers, Dyslexia are just a few of the disorders that seem to have exploded in numbers among adolescents.

Is it any wonder most are unhappy or depressed if they have to put up with any of the above.

In fact is it not strange just how many youngsters now seem to be afflicted by these disorders to one degree or another.Maybe there is more pollution in the air than we know or the food we buy now is not as healthy as we may think.

Either way I don't remember hardly any children in my youth being affected by all these disorders.

Food for thought ??

Most of those conditions only got a name in recent years though so maybe the kids that may have had those conditions years ago were just written off as troublesome or stupid

[Ammi]

..there was a time back in the day Nedusa when females were sent to asylums to spend their days because they suffered from PMT/Post Natal Depression etc ...it just was thought to be 'madness' instead but these things have always existed...

[lostalex]

my sister is a teacher, and they have segregated classes if the parents choose, and my sister tells me the girls always do better in the all girls classes, and the boys always do worse in the all boys classes.
'
personally i don't believe in segregating anyone based on sex or gender or race, but, it does seem to be a statistical fact that girls do better in all girls classes and boys do worse.

If i had a girl i would put her in an all girl class.

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..there was a time back in the day Nedusa when females were sent to asylums to spend their days because they suffered from PMT/Post Natal Depression etc ...it just was thought to be 'madness' instead but these things have always existed...

I take your point that a lot of these disorders were not known about or identified but still there does seem almost like an explosion of these disorders in recent years affecting younger people mainly.

Not sure why perhaps it does have something to do with the lack of resistance to dirt,germs etc perhaps this ties in with the rise in childhood allergies from nuts to pollen etc

Either way children now have a dizzying array of ailments and disorders to choose from. I certainly think this adds to the general level of unhappiness felt by this current generation.