[user104658]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Exaaaaactly, any number of things could go wrong and are likely to go wrong when you leave 3 babies alone like that, even the night before something went wrong when all three woke up alone and scared, kate and Gerry knew this but still left them the following night

Yeah like an abduction by Navy Seal trained ghost paedophiles or perhaps,

just as an out there thought,

drowsily clambering onto a couch and falling off the back, hitting your head on the rock solid slab flooring they have in Algarve resorts, bleeding out on the floor only to be discovered later by someone who may or may not panic for reasons which may or may not include the suspect-yet-surprisingly-common practice of sedating children with small doses over the counter meds used, for example, as a solution if they had awoken confused and distressed the previous evening.

It's probably the first one of course, anything else is pretty far fetched. Everyone knows that paedophiles have had stealth tech for years.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Yeah like an abduction by Navy Seal trained ghost paedophiles or perhaps,

just as an out there thought,

drowsily clambering onto a couch and falling off the back, hitting your head on the rock solid slab flooring they have in Algarve resorts, bleeding out on the floor only to be discovered later by someone who may or may not panic for reasons which may or may not include the suspect-yet-surprisingly-common practice of sedating children with small doses over the counter meds used, for example, as a solution if they had awoken confused and distressed the previous evening.

It's probably the first one of course, anything else is pretty far fetched. Everyone knows that paedophiles have had stealth tech for years.

I know right? Ghost paedophiles are the most obvious choice, has to be that then

[user104658]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Its as if people think that if you leave children in a complex and have a meal THEY ARE GUARANTEED TO BE ABDUCTED

I saw a car hurtling down the motorway the other day, the lady in the front had a toddler crawling around on her knee. My wife went mental! She wanted to take their license number and report them and all sorts, saying that apparently kids are supposed to be strapped in lol? I don't know what her problem is, it's like she thinks that if a kid isn't strapped in THE CAR IS GUARANTEED TO CRASH. What a fool.

[Amy Jade]

The original question was posted on mumsnet. A woman asked if other members thought it was ok to leave her baby asleep while she went 5 minutes down the street to get something.

I do think think it draws parralels to the McCann case so I understand Sharon bringing it up, even if it is hurtful to them, it's a good point and could help somebody make their same mistake.

I do sort of see LT's point too, leaving a child alone for any time like they did is neglectful but there are plenty of other cases where the parents get full sympathy when they made mistakes too and don't get dragged across the coles like the McCanns do.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Amy Jade

The original question was posted on mumsnet. A woman asked if other members thought it was ok to leave her baby asleep while she went 5 minutes down the street to get something.

I do think think it draws parralels to the McCann case so I understand Sharon bringing it up, even if it is hurtful to them, it's a good point and could help somebody make their same mistake.

I do sort of see LT's point too, leaving a child alone for any time like they did is neglectful but there are plenty of other cases where the parents get full sympathy when they made mistakes too and don't get dragged across the coles like the McCanns do.

To be fair, I don't think there are many other people who have courted the media attention in the way the McCann's have.

When you promote your cause to that degree (whatever its purpose) then you are going to get the negative/ everyone's opinions on it along with everything else.

[Amy Jade]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

To be fair, I don't think there are many other people who have courted the media attention in the way the McCann's have.

When you promote your cause to that degree (whatever its purpose) then you are going to get the negative/ everyone's opinions on it along with everything else.

Definately true, they should have thicker skin by now. Katie Hopkins says much worse about them and the general public worse again.

[Christmas Dynasnow]

Originally Posted by Amy Jade

The original question was posted on mumsnet. A woman asked if other members thought it was ok to leave her baby asleep while she went 5 minutes down the street to get something.

I do think think it draws parralels to the McCann case so I understand Sharon bringing it up, even if it is hurtful to them, it's a good point and could help somebody make their same mistake.

I do sort of see LT's point too, leaving a child alone for any time like they did is neglectful but there are plenty of other cases where the parents get full sympathy when they made mistakes too and don't get dragged across the coles like the McCanns do.

at the Birthday Queen

[joeysteele]

Leaving children alone for a few minutes could be understood, to leave children alone in a strange Country to just go and socialise with others is beyond any understanding, or should be, in my view.

Madeline was still only 3 years old when this happened and they left her with 2 children even younger for goodness sake.
Sorry for me that should be a criminal act.

One or both of the younger children could have woken up and been crying,Madeline should not have been left with that responsibility to the younger children and how would she have been able to cope with that too.
Also the McCanns chose not to have the baby minding service.

Anything could have happened and in situations where anything could happen it is best to ensure nothing does and be there yourself as an adult or adults to make sure nothing does.

[Amy Jade]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Leaving children alone for a few minutes could be understood, to leave children alone in a strange Country to just go and socialise with others is beyond any understanding, or should be, in my view.

Madeline was still only 3 years old when this happened and they left her with 2 children even younger for goodness sake.
Sorry for me that should be a criminal act.

One or both of the younger children could have woken up and been crying,Madeline should not have been left with that responsibility to the younger children and how would she have been able to cope with that too.
Also the McCanns chose not to have the baby minding service.

Anything could have happened and in situations where anything could happen it is best to ensure nothing does and be there yourself as an adult or adults to make sure nothing does.

Anything could happen if you leave them for a moment or an hour, of course leaving them in a room in neglectful but I also believe it's neglectful to leave a child say outside a shop while you run inside. James Bulger is an example of this to be honest and I never see people saying his mother was neglectful, but I look after my neice and I would NEVER take my eyes off her, EVER.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Amy Jade

Anything could happen if you leave them for a moment or an hour, of course leaving them in a room in neglectful but I also believe it's neglectful to leave a child say outside a shop while you run inside. James Bulger is an example of this to be honest and I never see people saying his mother was neglectful, but I look after my neice and I would NEVER take my eyes off her, EVER.

I agree,and full credit to you for never taking your eyes off your Niece when she is in your charge,that is how it should be too in my view.
If anyone has Children far better to not leave them alone for any time.
If I ever had any,I would expect that.

I do however know that in a shop or shopping centre,you can get distracted and a child can walk off,I have at times when younger with my Mum,I see that even now in the ASDA store I go to, children running round the aisles with their Parents not in sight.

I would not however personally look at Jamie Bulger's Mum as a bad example, she didn't leave her child alone in the way the McCanns did.
She has gone through torture following the horrific murder of Jamie,I don't think she should be considered neglectful.

The McCanns were not even doing anything vital,they were going out enjoying themselves and not just for a few moments.
That was their planned choice on the night and to leave a 3 year old girl alone at night, with 2 even younger siblings,while not in the home environment even.

For me they are not fit to tie Jamie's Mothers shoelaces.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I agree,and full credit to you for never taking your eyes off your Niece when she is in your charge,that is how it should be too in my view.
If anyone has Children far better to not leave them alone for any time.
If I ever had any,I would expect that.

I do however know that in a shop or shopping centre,you can get distracted and a child can walk off,I have at times when younger with my Mum,I see that even now in the ASDA store I go to, children running round the aisles with their Parents not in sight.

I would not however personally look at Jamie Bulger's Mum as a bad example, she didn't leave her child alone in the way the McCanns did.
She has gone through torture following the horrific murder of Jamie,I don't think she should be considered neglectful.

The McCanns were not even doing anything vital,they were going out enjoying themselves and not just for a few moments.
That was their planned choice on the night and to leave a 3 year old girl alone at night, with 2 even younger siblings,while not in the home environment even.

For me they are not fit to tie Jamie's Mothers shoelaces.

Yes Joey totally different scenarios,a pat on the back for people who have their eyes on a child 24/7,is that really possible?I don't think it is ,to compare James parents to the McCanns is quite offensive to me.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Amy Jade

Anything could happen if you leave them for a moment or an hour, of course leaving them in a room in neglectful but I also believe it's neglectful to leave a child say outside a shop while you run inside. James Bulger is an example of this to be honest and I never see people saying his mother was neglectful, but I look after my neice and I would NEVER take my eyes off her, EVER.

Denise did what hundreds of parents do,she wasn't neglectful,she was distracted,James was being ancy,and she could still see him ,the butcher messed up her order so kept her a minute more than she should have been,people also forget his auntie was with them too,Denise wasn't to know she was looking at clothes on a rail,and even if you think she was wrong,Denise has sufferered 10 fold for that and still is,she beats herself up all the time over it,it cost her ,her marriage too,My mom knows this family so I do know a bit about it, so james is not an example just a victim is unfortunate events,she wasn't having a meal with friends and James wasn't neglected, and denise finds it hard to smile even now,nevermind a few days after he had gone.

[Denver]

They should have their other kids taken off them and banned from being around kids

[Amy Jade]

Originally Posted by Adam.

They should have their other kids taken off them and banned from being around kids

If they did that to every parent who made a mistake there would be a hell of a lot of kids being brought up in the system when their parents are perfectly suitable - parenting is surely partly about making mistakes and learning from them.

[Denver]

Originally Posted by Amy Jade

If they did that to every parent who made a mistake there would be a hell of a lot of kids being brought up in the system when their parents are perfectly suitable - parenting is surely partly about making mistakes and learning from them.

Im sorry but neglecting your kids to get pissed with your mates is not a mistake

[Amy Jade]

Originally Posted by Adam.

Im sorry but neglecting your kids to get pissed with your mates is not a mistake

Obviously, without a doubt.

But since the one incident there have been no other instances of this happening and they've learned from their mistake and most likely wrap their kids in cotton wool.

Why take away children who are being well look after all these years later to prove a point that they made a horrible judgement years and years ago?

[Denver]

Originally Posted by Amy Jade

Obviously, without a doubt.

But since the one incident there have been no other instances of this happening and they've learned from their mistake and most likely wrap their kids in cotton wool.

Why take away children who are being well look after all these years later to prove a point that they made a horrible judgement years and years ago?

The are evil people all they care about is making momey from Maddie not actually finding her

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Amy Jade

If they did that to every parent who made a mistake there would be a hell of a lot of kids being brought up in the system when their parents are perfectly suitable - parenting is surely partly about making mistakes and learning from them.

IMO, they didn't.

Maddie informing them she awoke the night before, looked for her parents and cried herself to sleep with the twins wondering where the hell they were and then they STILL did the same again was not learning from their mistakes IMO.

[Amy Jade]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

IMO, they didn't.

Maddie informing them she awoke the night before, looked for her parents and cried herself to sleep with the twins wondering where the hell they were and then they STILL did the same again was not learning from their mistakes IMO.

They've sadly had to learn the hard way. I'm not defending their actions at all, I won't lie and say I know the ins and outs of the case but recently I have read a bit more and they absolutely made a massive mistake but since that fateful night they've most likely learned a terrible lesson.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Amy Jade

They've sadly had to learn the hard way. I'm not defending their actions at all, I won't lie and say I know the ins and outs of the case but recently I have read a bit more and they absolutely made a massive mistake but since that fateful night they've most likely learned a terrible lesson.

Oh definitely. I can't imagine living with that guilt/pain forever more after.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Adam.

They should have their other kids taken off them and banned from being around kids

..I don't agree that they should have had the twins taken from them, Adam..or I guess the thing for me is more that I don't think that the twins should have been without their parents, either at the time of Maddie disappearing or in the time in between...child welfare works with families to try to keep those families together more than anything else..it's aim isn't to 'remove' unless it's believed that a child is in danger and there is nothing that we know about the McCanns that would have us believe that to be true...so far as we know and can assume, the best place for the twins to have been has been with their parents...and I do personally believe that they would have been the ones who would have been damaged the most in being placed into care and removed from their family home ..it would have been less a 'punishment' on Kate and Gerry as it would have been on them....



...I think the most important difference between Jamie Bulger and Maddie McCann, the two cases...?...is that the understanding and empathy comes in Jamie's case of 'there but with the grace of God..'..type thing because we can all relate to taking our eyes off our children for a moment or two...there wouldn't be many people/parents out there who hadn't done that, if any at all, so it's something that would be possible to happen to us all...there isn't the same understanding though with the McCanns because leaving our very young children in an apartment while we're out having a meal with friends etc is something that many people/parents, find an unthinkable thing to do...


..I don't know what happened to Maddie, obviously but I do believe that her parents have been 'imprisoned' ever since her death..and nothing that any of us say or don't say, think or don't thing will ever make any difference to that...

[Amy Jade]

I'm obviously not trying to offend anyone but I'd personally still say she made a mistake. I'm not even saying she is to blame for what happened to him in the slightest but a mistake was still made on her part to leave a young child alone outside a busy shop which ended up being a grave mistake.

I'm not even necessarily comparing the two, the McCanns neglect was far worse but the fundamental point, for me, is that people dropped the ball and made mistakes, my only question is why are the McCanns literally thrown to the lions every time their mistake is brought up and called every nasty name imaginable yet other parents who made mistakes too get nothing but out pourings of compassion.

[user104658]

This topic has been done to death so I think my in-depth views on it are probably known, so all I'll reiterate is this: The "abduction theory" - and YES, it is a theory, there is absolutely zero evidence for it other than the fact that she went missing - is about as credible as her having been eaten by a chupacabra or sucked into the nether-realms by Thinman.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

This topic has been done to death so I think my in-depth views on it are probably known, so all I'll reiterate is this: The "abduction theory" - and YES, it is a theory, there is absolutely zero evidence for it other than the fact that she went missing - is about as credible as her having been eaten by a chupacabra or sucked into the nether-realms by Thinman.

Exactly. Infact there is more evidence to support the theory of her having died in the apartment than any other theory - the cadaver dogs

[the truth]

I'm disgusted by the parents in every possible way. not just the fact they and several other parents abandoned their babies night after night to go drinking , leaving the apartment door unlocked....not just the fact the kids were allegedly giving stuff to sleep, not just the fact they are endlessly vague about whether the door or windows were left open...The endless contradictions and holes in their stories, the alleged delays in starting the search the alleged fact they sat around in the living room immediately after shed gone missing which hindered the search and allegedly damaged much dna evidence in the room...then the use of the funds to wipe out anyone who dare question their versions of events or in fact anyone who dare even criticize these awful parents.....
even the fact they have never seemed particularly regretful or apologetic for their absurd irresponsible actions. they have an attitude of self pity denial and aggression too...going to celebrities to find a missing person and the pope is crazy. all it did was make the kidnapper even more determined to hide Maddie if she was taken. they should have worked wih the detectives far better from day 1 minute 1....just awful