[Denver]

Terrorism or hirabah is forbidden in Islamic law, which groups it with brigandage, highway robbery and extortion rackets– any illicit use of fear and coercion in public spaces for money or power. The principle of forbidding the spreading of terror in the land is based on the Qur’an (Surah al-Ma’ida 5:33–34). Prominent [pdf] Muslim legal scholar Sherman Jackson writes, “The Spanish Maliki jurist Ibn `Abd al-Barr (d. 464/ 1070)) defines the agent of hiraba as ‘Anyone who disturbs free passage in the streets and renders them unsafe to travel, striving to spread corruption in the land by taking money, killing people or violating what God has made it unlawful to violate is guilty of hirabah . .

[Denver]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Are you just making random statements and hoping they will be relevant to the discussion?

You may wanna hate all muslims and think they are tught to kill but you only have to read it up to see the truth

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Adam.

You may wanna hate all muslims and think they are tught to kill but you only have to read it up to see the truth

What are you even talking about, I haven't said any such thing.

[Denver]

Well you basically said Muslims are for death and Christians are told it is wrong

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Adam.

Well you basically said Muslims are for death and Christians are told it is wrong

Find me this quote please.

I responded to your assertions about the bible. Let's not twist things. You're being deliberately absurd.

[Denver]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Stop spreading these silly statements as though they're facts.

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Yeah, look at the Bible glorifying the murder of Jesus and stating it is ok, and readers of this holy book go out and kill.

I suppose EastEnders condones murder for depicting it in their storylines?

You're being absurd.

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Yes and condones and teaches it. Obviously.

Because that's the exact same thing.

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Find me this quote please.

All said when i was defending the Quran because it is not so different to the bible

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Adam.

The bible teaches that it is ok to murder people

^^^^

I responded to this. Nothing about the Quran or Muslims was even mentioned in any of my posts.

But, yeah, let's make things up and rant about them.

[Denver]

All books of religion are very similar the only difference is the god

[Marsh.]

But, yes, the bible teaches murder using the murder of Jesus... the man responsible for that creation of that book to begin with. Just because.

[Denver]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/reli...-passages.html

Now tell me the bible teaches good stuff

[Marsh.]

I don't wish to tell you anything.

But throwing up isolated quotes in the hopes of making a big huge point to incite hatred towards something despite evidence to the contrary is exactly what should be avoided.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Understanding what it’s all about is itself significant.

Well if anyone knows how a terrorists mind works its jeremy..at least we know if he does go it will be videod.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Adam.

The bible teaches that it is ok to murder people

No it doesn't Adam.

[Beso]

We could try and stop muslim fathers offering up their children to be suicide bombers..

Get jeremy on this one. See if he can stopp the radicalization of children by their own fathers.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

So doing nothing is an option in your opinion?

What is the solution? How can we possibly get ISIS around a table and talk? Most of us balk at that idea, and its hard to see how anything could be achieved even if we did, but if we don't, honestly, what is going to happen? If we don't change our strategy it will keep on and keep on and keep on happening and I, just like you, don't want to see more deaths.

I am simply saying, why are we talking like a broken record that keeps saying the same thing over and over again when this kind of thing keeps happening over and over again, without stopping to look at this seriously?

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Well if anyone knows how a terrorists mind works its jeremy..at least we know if he does go it will be videod.

We can only do something about this if we know or understand how a killers mind works. Corbyn doesn't support terrorism as you appear to be suggesting here but I understand that comment to be your emotional reaction to something none of us really understand.

Trying to find answers in common was why I opened this discussion. How this will all end is one thing we all have a common concern over so lets talk about it and stop mud slinging because all that does is create further bad feeling.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

We can only do something about this if we know or understand how a killers mind works. Corbyn doesn't support terrorism as you appear to be suggesting here but I understand that comment to be your emotional reaction to something none of us really understand.

Trying to find answers in common was why I opened this discussion. How this will all end is one thing we all have a common concern over so lets talk about it and stop mud slinging because all that does is create further bad feeling.

Is this the same mud you hurled at may in your original post?

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by James

There's probably better words I could have used than 'blaming ourselves' but I can't think of them. It's a certain type of politics that gets held responsible here. Again it is all about our own politics, and the Middle East only usually gets reported if there is a Western angle to the story, so it can be easy to ignore in a kind of "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil."

One aspect of the Middle East that hasn't been mentioned in the cycle of destabalisation is the number of dictatorships that rule these countries, and the often-eventual internal reaction.

Many of us in the west live in countries which couldn't wait to meddle in the middle east, the English for instance have been meddling in Iraq since before WWI. We remove tyrannical dictators and then celebrate, as if what, as if the country will now move to democratic elections and have Tory and Labour PM's to vote for!. Tyrannical leaders they may have been, but they kept stability in the middle east. Why is tyrannical rule in Saudi ok?

We have now peddled around removing them and leaving power vacuums everywhere into which ISIS and various terrorist groups have dived and now they are spreading westwards. Mostly uneducated, mostly mentally ill or unstable but they are still here, fighting what they believe to be a revolution against the enemy.

And the frightening thing is, we can't stop them. We can fill our streets with troops but we won't stop them. We can give more privacy away but we can't find them. Even if we give up everything in our paranoia, we can't stop this.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

What is the solution? How can we possibly get ISIS around a table and talk? Most of us balk at that idea, and its hard to see how anything could be achieved even if we did, but if we don't, honestly, what is going to happen? If we don't change our strategy it will keep on and keep on and keep on happening and I, just like you, don't want to see more deaths.

I am simply saying, why are we talking like a broken record that keeps saying the same thing over and over again when this kind of thing keeps happening over and over again, without stopping to look at this seriously?

Because the political motivation behind a crime never justifies or legitimises it.

A heinous crime such as the mass murder of innocent people including children by terrorists is not something that can be discussed over tea and biscuits. How can any 'compromise' ever be made in terrorism. I think, apart from anything else, it gives out the wrong message and only encourages more such attacks - rather like paying a ransom does.

It gets them heard and rewards their actions.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Many of us in the west live in countries which couldn't wait to meddle in the middle east, the English for instance have been meddling in Iraq since before WWI. We remove tyrannical dictators and then celebrate, as if what, as if the country will now move to democratic elections and have Tory and Labour PM's to vote for!. Tyrannical leaders they may have been, but they kept stability in the middle east. Why is tyrannical rule in Saudi ok?

We have now peddled around removing them and leaving power vacuums everywhere into which ISIS and various terrorist groups have dived and now they are spreading westwards. Mostly uneducated, mostly mentally ill or unstable but they are still here, fighting what they believe to be a revolution against the enemy.

And the frightening thing is, we can't stop them. We can fill our streets with troops but we won't stop them. We can give more privacy away but we can't find them. Even if we give up everything in our paranoia, we can't stop this.

I know you will disagree on this but to me and many others the only way to protect ourselves in the future is to stop enabling future home grown terrorism by significantly reducing non-European immigration into the West.

If there is no other way, if these people can't be reasoned with, we have to take steps to protect ourselves and future generations.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Because the political motivation behind a crime never justifies or legitimises it.

A heinous crime such as the mass murder of innocent people including children by terrorists is not something that can be discussed over tea and biscuits. How can any 'compromise' ever be made in terrorism. I think, apart from anything else, it gives out the wrong message and only encourages more such attacks - rather like paying a ransom does.

It gets them heard and rewards their actions.

I get what you're saying. The IRA had a genuine grievance against the British government, the PLO had a genuine grievance against the Israeli's, and the Kurdish freedom fighters, how can we not be influenced by their cause, especially in Turkey. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. However, I make an exception for ISIS. Most of them are illiterate men and women who would have never made it in the normal sphere of things so they create their own alternative system. They are brutal to Muslims and non-Muslims alike and so I don't accept this as some moral war they are fighting for and so sitting around the table with 'them' is likely not a sollution.

The West though, can not deny having blood on its own hands. The only innocents in this are us and the people getting blown up in both Europe and the Middle East. Do we need to stop aimlessly killing and destroying? The IRA would have stopped if they got Northern Ireland back, the Kurds if they got a homeland, the PLO with proper settlements where Israelis don't live.

[DemolitionRed]

I'm going to be frank and some people won't like this but if we don't speak frankly, we stagnate and just go round in an endless circle. Let me just start by saying, I think a lot of these 'false flag' suggestions are bollocks. I know people can make a conspiracy out of anything. I remain open minded about the death of Princess Diana and the twin towers. I don't believe those who say they have proof that we never walked on the moon but I do believe Monroe's death was suspicious.

The day before this recent atrocity, a colleague at work suggested there would be a terrorist atrocity before June 8th. I asked why he believed this but he remained tight lipped. When this terrorist attack happened, all I could think about was this colleagues prediction. I asked him about it yesterday and he feels certain it was a government act.

Let me just say, I disagree with him. No government would stoop so low... would they?

His words opened my curiosity though and so last night, I decided to trawl through some political forums that are normally out of my league and see what members from parties other than the Tory party were talking about. It surprised me that people, were being so openly cynical about other possibilities. Was this ISIS or was it a well timed move by, not the government, but those funding the Tory party? The coffers from the middle east who are sending Łhundreds of millions to the Tories, who in turn promises unprecedented government support for the fossil fuel industry.

Another thing I picked up on is, to say such things publicly is to be monsterized by the blowhard press. We're simply not allowed to talk about this and anyone who dares to pass comment, will be jumped upon and an apology demanded.

Why?
why can't we talk about these possibilities?

[smudgie]

All this false flag bull**** does is take away the blame from the real guilty perpetrators, they must be laughing their ruddy heads off at how they can blow innocents up and then the double whammy is the victims blame each other.

[Beso]

Oh yes a defo false flag..its not really the bomber on cctv..its boris dressed in red..all those witnesses who were standing by the bomber as he detonated but are lucky enough to be alive today, are mistaken..they did not see a religious nutter blow himself and many others up..no they are mistaken..it was a plant, someone willing to kill themselves so the tories can stay in power...

GET A GRIP YOU DAFT EEJITS.

[Kizzy]

I'm a cynical old git, and it's a wild conspiracy, but if I said I hadn't wondered that myself what your colleague suggested... I'd be lying.

When I saw that a member of the Labour party had mentioned that this was in some way beneficial for may ( in terms of media attention) it was leapt on, but she said what I suspect many were thinking.

The reaction has been phenomenal though, I was expecting something very different but the outpouring of support for all communities has done a lot to bolster my faith in this country I feel proud again of the response from the public that think is down to the new feeling sweeping the UK.

People no longer look to the establishment and the media to do the right thing, they know themselves what the right thing is.