[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by jet

Your glibness and pretence is chilling. I've already said that Loyalist Para's mainly targeted individual adults, and as horrible as that was, few children where their victims. Dear Lord, can you even understand plain English - yes, you can, you are just being deliberately insensitive and obtuse.

So I'll play along and spell it out for you again. The IRA planted bombs that killed anyone who happened to be in the vicinity, they didn't care if children and babies were among the carnage, as they inevitably were.

They bombed families out for a days shopping, they bombed families eating in restaurants, they bombed families at Charity fun days, they bombed families at Cenotaph remembrance gatherings, they bombed families waiting for buses at bus stations, they bombed families at fast food outlets just getting fish and chips for their supper. Has that penetrated your brain yet or do you need more fking examples.

And to add to all that, they even recruited youngsters aged 12 - 16 to their ranks, which is illegal, and covered up 19 deaths of these child soldiers.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...-31136428.html

All water off a ducks back to you, of course. Your vision of Corbyn, the IRA supporter, as a man of peace and saviour of the down trodden can't be disturbed, and you'll do anything and say anything to protect his persona at the expense of placing the blame of dead children and babies firmly where in belongs...at the hands of those he sympathised and supported, the IRA.

There were planned attacks everywhere...funerals fgs, were there not women, kids old people all innocent there?

Again I feel you are trying to downplay the ills of other terrorist organisations. Not once have I suggested one side was any better or worse.
There is nothing to suggest that Corbyn supported any terrorist activity.

That really is the end of this discussion now, I resent the character assasination due to the fact I recognise faults on both sides.

[Kizzy]

Youtube video

[Kizzy]

Youtube video

[jet]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

There were planned attacks everywhere...funerals fgs, were there not women, kids old people all innocent there?

Again I feel you are trying to downplay the ills of other terrorist organisations. Not once have I suggested one side was any better or worse.
There is nothing to suggest that Corbyn supported any terrorist activity.

That really is the end of this discussion now, I resent the character assasination due to the fact I recognise faults on both sides.

Oh I could tell you plenty about other terrorist organisations - if they were the ones Corbyn supported...but the IRA, the most prolific and callous killers, were his chosen buddies.

There is nothing to suggest that Corbyn supported any terrorist activity.

Yes, end of discussion.

[jet]

Originally Posted by Livia

Everyone understands your point of view, jet, and most people respect your unique viewpoint based on your first-hand experience. No point in flogging a dead horse when an opinion is so fixed that nothing will budge it. You've done your best.

Ah Livia.
Thank goodness for those who have higher levels of comprehension.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by jet

Oh I could tell you plenty about other terrorist organisations - if they were the ones Corbyn supported...but the IRA, the most prolific and callous killers, were his chosen buddies.





Yes, end of discussion.

The simple fact you acknowledge they exist is good enough, not sure I find anything about the topic to laugh about however there's no insulting of my view I can be satisfied with that.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by jet

Ah Livia.
Thank goodness for those who have higher levels of comprehension.

Thank goodness for people who agree with you,in order for you to feel to validated in your stance?..anyone with a counter view are in no way 'lesser' Jet, it is an important factor in a debate to recognise this.

Let's not forget the thread has been dragged from it's initial topic, one where the media and establishment conspire to demonise a threat to the status quo by planting false information.

[Kizzy]

Lies, lies and damned lies.

Result?..

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a8226406.html

[Kizzy]

Result!!!

A Tory MP has been forced issue a grovelling apology and to make a "substantial" donation to charity after making false claims about Jeremy Corbyn's links with communist spies.

Ben Bradley, a Conservative Party vice chair, said his comments were "wholly untrue and false" and agreed to pay out an undisclosed sum to a homeless charity and a foodbank in his Mansfield constituency.

Lawyers acting for the Labour leader contacted Mr Bradley this week over a potentially libellous tweet, where he made unsubstantiated allegations about Mr Corbyn's interactions with a Czech agent, who was posing as a diplomat. He has since deleted the tweet.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a8226661.html

[jet]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

The simple fact you acknowledge they exist is good enough, not sure I find anything about the topic to laugh about however there's no insulting of my view I can be satisfied with that.

I've always acknowledged they existed and condemned them on here, you must have a bad memory. I lived in the midst of them for 30 years ffs.

The discussions on this forum concern the topical Corbyn and his love - in with his buddies the IRA and their actions, not other terrorists. But I get that you have to keep bringing up the 'other side' to shift the focus away from Corbyn and the IRA by trying to lessen their and his sins. "But what about what the other side did?" etc.
Corbyn didn't support the other side, he supported the IRA, so the other side are irrelevant to the discussion.
Unless you can stick to the topic (and we are already off - topic here) , can I ask you not to respond to me again please, I would prefer to have nothing more to do with you really.

[Ammi]

..I hate politics...so often people only ‘see’ others in either their support of or condemnation of a political party or party leader...fellow people are lost, their life experiences and their pain become lost in it all...people just don’t see or feel each other and their lives anymore quite often with politics...


...jet.........and your wife also sounds like a pretty incredible lady....

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by jet

I've always acknowledged they existed and condemned them on here, you must have a bad memory. I lived in the midst of them for 30 years ffs.

The discussions on this forum concern the topical Corbyn and his love - in with his buddies the IRA and their actions, not other terrorists. But I get that you have to keep bringing up the 'other side' to shift the focus away from Corbyn and the IRA by trying to lessen their and his sins. "But what about what the other side did?" etc.
Corbyn didn't support the other side, he supported the IRA, so the other side are irrelevant to the discussion.
Unless you can stick to the topic (and we are already off - topic here) , can I ask you not to respond to me again please, I would prefer to have nothing more to do with you really.

Sins?... he has no sins your emotive language does nothing to make me believe he is guilty of anything. The fact you are still speaking of 'sides' is more political than emotive.
I'm on topic, he was guilty of nothing then and he is guilty of nothing now.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I hate politics...so often people only ‘see’ others in either their support of or condemnation of a political party or party leader...fellow people are lost, their life experiences and their pain become lost in it all...people just don’t see or feel each other and their lives anymore quite often with politics...


...jet.........and your wife also sounds like a pretty incredible lady....

Agreed there there people across the social, religious and political spectrum affected by the troubles across the board...
Maybe it helps to be an outsider to see that?

[jet]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I hate politics...so often people only ‘see’ others in either their support of or condemnation of a political party or party leader...fellow people are lost, their life experiences and their pain become lost in it all...people just don’t see or feel each other and their lives anymore quite often with politics...


...jet.........and your wife also sounds like a pretty incredible lady....

She is incredible Ammi, she's been a trauma nurse all of her adult life. She says she couldn't do it without me to hold her at night, but I'm the luckiest man alive to have her. How I got that lucky, I'll never know.

[Ammi]

...no Kizzy..you ‘see’ what you ‘see’ in respect of politics and people../..people’s life experiences and their realities and pain...and I’ll see what I see in this thread..we’ll leave it at that with both of our ‘vision’...

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by jet

She is incredible Ammi, she's been a trauma nurse all of her adult life. She says she couldn't do it without me to hold her at night, but I'm the luckiest man alive to have her. How I got that lucky, I'll never know.

...hmmm, I think I might have a little idea how you got that lucky, jet.....

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Thank goodness for people who agree with you,in order for you to feel to validated in your stance?..anyone with a counter view are in no way 'lesser' Jet, it is an important factor in a debate to recognise this.

Let's not forget the thread has been dragged from it's initial topic, one where the media and establishment conspire to demonise a threat to the status quo by planting false information.

What's also important in debate is to recognise that sometimes, someone knows more about something than you do.

[parmnion]

They were all run by paedos anyway.

[Jack_]

screaming

the pathetic grovelling ****ing **** chxtdgd

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Livia

What's also important in debate is to recognise that sometimes, someone knows more about something than you do.

Well, no. You are basically saying that nobody can question what Jet is saying because he claims to know more about something than anyone else whilst showing little to no evidence of his claims. His responses and arguments are ones rooted in emotion rather than logic or fact.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

What's also important in debate is to recognise that sometimes, someone knows more about something than you do.

I don't need any guidance thank you Livia, I will comment where I see fit.

What is the point of this debate forum if the only persons qualified to comment are those with direct personal experience of one perspective on any given topic?

[Ammi]

..I guess I can only speak for myself with the ‘reveals, that jet has made in Corbyn discussions...obviously there is no firm ‘proof’, no firm ‘evidence’ to things he has witnessed and any link of support from Jeremy Corbyn to an IRA ‘cause’ he has personally known to be discussed etc... but it would seem bizarre also ..(..and not make sense to me..)...that the things he says would have no foundation either or very little../..flimsy foundation...these things are not carried with such intense pain through life on ‘flimsy’ or incorrect..?...it is for me though a bit like a ‘jigsaw puzzle’ and seeing which bits seem to fit...Jeremy Corbyn seems to have inconsistencies in what he will speak out about more readily and what he refuses to condemn../..seems reluctant to openly condemn...jet knows I also have Northern Ireland connections, my dad was from Northern Ireland...he didn’t live through the troubles like jet did though, because he had already moved to England...but he did feel the personal loss of some people in his life, so I’m aware of quite a few ‘IRA discussions and references’ through my younger life...anyways, I have absolutely no reservations whatsoever in condemning the IRA and the slaughter of lives they were guilty of...so I can’t understand that reluctance in Jeremy which he appears to display...it just doesn’t sit right for me...yes, I am anti all violence but I can also be specific as well when a specific violence/..terrorist group is being discussed../..when that’s the actual question being asked..’do you condemn’....

...anyways, there are lots of things for me that don’t sit right about Jeremy...he feels quite the opportunist, feels quite disingenuous and inconsistent...that’s not to say though, would he be the right person to lead the country as PM in the upcoming future...?..maybe he would, I honestly don’t know because we feel stuck between a rock and a hard place in politics with the choices we have and the two party values we have...but it would be nice to feel more assured about him as a potential leader...there is so much said about Jeremy and has always been.. his ‘attachments’ to terrorist groups...with no ‘evidence’ to support any ‘truth’, so how can they be true because there would be evidence over the years, I mean surely..?...but then why are things consistently and persistently said and continue to be said if there was no ‘truth’ or links either...so many questions and very important to be more certain than I am atm of the answers to those...I personally find jet’s posts and thoughts very interesting...and they’ve made me think a lot...


...on a personal note though...there are many times that ‘personal life experiences’ have been noted by members on the forum to explain their views and their stances etc..which also obviously explains the emotion felt by them also because the nature is more personal experience...I have seen much understanding shown by others and understandably so...and even from time to time..’well they have personal experience, so a greater insight’../type thing...but not so much with jet and his own personal life experiences, which are more widely dismissed I would say...which I guess goes back to my thoughts...where politics are concerned../..political parties../..political leaders etc...people become lost in the defence of or condemnation of...we stop ‘seeing’ and we stop ‘feeling’ people’s emotional pain and we stop seeing and feeling each other...I don’t think I’ve ever seen a pain so ‘laid bare’ on the forum as jet has done in revealing the worst times of his life...always very difficult to read...but then lovely as well when you read the support that person gets and never ..’well prove it then, otherwise you’re nothing more than an emotive person and too closely attached’...there’s a reason he’s closely attached.....because he’s lived it and because he’s lived Jeremy’s name being attached in support of what he’s lived through...

...I goddamn hate politics...

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Well, no. You are basically saying that nobody can question what Jet is saying because he claims to know more about something than anyone else whilst showing little to no evidence of his claims. His responses and arguments are ones rooted in emotion rather than logic or fact.

I class my self as someone with a lot of experience who can spot someone that is reciting something parrot fashion or has lived through it and experienced it. Jet has consistently spoken with passion about his experiences and I personally rate them as genuine. It's a forum, so not everyone is going to agree, but I think as a moderator you should be able to respect the posters viewpoint without trying to question and diminish his input.You say his arguments don't come from fact, yet he has stated things that are all available in the public domain. They are factual.

What dismays me more than anything is that a large proportion of labour supporters seem to have pledged blind allegiance to jeremy and can't accept the remotest possibility that he may have done wrong at any time in his career... staggering gullibility to the current labour leaderships spin.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

I class my self as someone with a lot of experience who can spot someone that is reciting something parrot fashion or has lived through it and experienced it. Jet has consistently spoken with passion about his experiences and I personally rate them as genuine. It's a forum, so not everyone is going to agree, but I think as a moderator you should be able to respect the posters viewpoint without trying to question and diminish his input.You say his arguments don't come from fact, yet he has stated things that are all available in the public domain. They are factual.

What dismays me more than anything is that a large proportion of labour supporters seem to have pledged blind allegiance to jeremy and can't accept the remotest possibility that he may have done wrong at any time in his career... staggering gullibility to the current labour leaderships spin.

Me being a mod has nothing to do with it and I resent that, like so many other people, your first port of call to attack me is the fact that I am a mod. If someone's going to try to shut down someone's opinion, not through reasoned debate but by basically saying 'I know more about this than you, shut up'' then I will take an issue with that and that does not contradict me being a mod at all no matter how much you try to twist it to be that way.

I don't care about Corbyn, I'm bored of the same old **** discussions involving him, I just wanted to voice my opposition to this mentality that nobody can question or have an opposing opinion to Jet on this issue.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I guess I can only speak for myself with the ‘reveals, that jet has made in Corbyn discussions...obviously there is no firm ‘proof’, no firm ‘evidence’ to things he has witnessed and any link of support from Jeremy Corbyn to an IRA ‘cause’ he has personally known to be discussed etc... but it would seem bizarre also ..(..and not make sense to me..)...that the things he says would have no foundation either or very little../..flimsy foundation...these things are not carried with such intense pain through life on ‘flimsy’ or incorrect..?...it is for me though a bit like a ‘jigsaw puzzle’ and seeing which bits seem to fit...Jeremy Corbyn seems to have inconsistencies in what he will speak out about more readily and what he refuses to condemn../..seems reluctant to openly condemn...jet knows I also have Northern Ireland connections, my dad was from Northern Ireland...he didn’t live through the troubles like jet did though, because he had already moved to England...but he did feel the personal loss of some people in his life, so I’m aware of quite a few ‘IRA discussions and references’ through my younger life...anyways, I have absolutely no reservations whatsoever in condemning the IRA and the slaughter of lives they were guilty of...so I can’t understand that reluctance in Jeremy which he appears to display...it just doesn’t sit right for me...yes, I am anti all violence but I can also be specific as well when a specific violence/..terrorist group is being discussed../..when that’s the actual question being asked..’do you condemn’....

...anyways, there are lots of things for me that don’t sit right about Jeremy...he feels quite the opportunist, feels quite disingenuous and inconsistent...that’s not to say though, would he be the right person to lead the country as PM in the upcoming future...?..maybe he would, I honestly don’t know because we feel stuck between a rock and a hard place in politics with the choices we have and the two party values we have...but it would be nice to feel more assured about him as a potential leader...there is so much said about Jeremy and has always been.. his ‘attachments’ to terrorist groups...with no ‘evidence’ to support any ‘truth’, so how can they be true because there would be evidence over the years, I mean surely..?...but then why are things consistently and persistently said and continue to be said if there was no ‘truth’ or links either...so many questions and very important to be more certain than I am atm of the answers to those...I personally find jet’s posts and thoughts very interesting...and they’ve made me think a lot...


...on a personal note though...there are many times that ‘personal life experiences’ have been noted by members on the forum to explain their views and their stances etc..which also obviously explains the emotion felt by them also because the nature is more personal experience...I have seen much understanding shown by others and understandably so...and even from time to time..’well they have personal experience, so a greater insight’../type thing...but not so much with jet and his own personal life experiences, which are more widely dismissed I would say...which I guess goes back to my thoughts...where politics are concerned../..political parties../..political leaders etc...people become lost in the defence of or condemnation of...we stop ‘seeing’ and we stop ‘feeling’ people’s emotional pain and we stop seeing and feeling each other...I don’t think I’ve ever seen a pain so ‘laid bare’ on the forum as jet has done in revealing the worst times of his life...always very difficult to read...but then lovely as well when you read the support that person gets and never ..’well prove it then, otherwise you’re nothing more than an emotive person and too closely attached’...there’s a reason he’s closely attached.....because he’s lived it and because he’s lived Jeremy’s name being attached in support of what he’s lived through...

...I goddamn hate politics...

That's quite contradictory to your last statement to me that we should all have our own individual 'vision', I do respect Jet and the experiences he has had. My only issue being that I feel the anger displayed is directed in the wrong places, and (from my perspective) with a slight touch of bias.

I reject your opportunist suggestion, as someone who has until recently stayed on the back benches for decades that does not smack to me of your common or garden career politician.

He has genuinely and consistently condemned all forms of terrorism, conflict and war... I don't know how else to demonstrate that when there are news reports stretching back over recent governments campaigning on those issues available for all to see.

It doesn't sit right with me that we have to be so specific if a certain group is being discussed that there can be no counter and that must remain the focus... that is not an open debate is it?
It matters not how interesting posts are if they close down debate how objective are they?

On the issue in question there has been nothing but a smear campaign, designed specifically to further defame Corbyn again found to be nothing but rubbish, why isn't this the focus of the thread as intended?