[bots]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

free movement with the EU?
didn't know Poles were so upsetting

nobody in themselves is upsetting, its the numbers coming in unchecked .... we have had polish immigration in Scotland since the 2nd world war and never had issues

[Christmas Dynasnow]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

nobody in themselves is upsetting, its the numbers coming in unchecked .... we have had polish immigration in Scotland since the 2nd world war and never had issues

yes and very welcome they are too

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

yes and very welcome they are too

so why war if they're welcome?

[Tom4784]

This thread is really starting to remind me of a certain Beauty and the Beast song.

Youtube video

'We don't like what we don't understand
In fact it scares us
And this monster is mysterious at least'

[Christmas Dynasnow]

I note

once again

The naysayers are just not addressing the issue of uncontrolled immigration and the negative effect on the UK culture and communities

Perhaps they could address that?

[Twosugars]

I thought Scotland needed immigration?

[Christmas Dynasnow]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Strange-Dea.../dp/1472942248

This is a very interesting book that tackles this subject head on (and about culture)

[Yuki Maru Hoshi]

I don't see LT as racist at all. His and other comnents in this section have been very helpful to understanding the anxiety behind the 2016 elections in the US.. which is kinda crazy actually because I've learned more here than from ppl back home. We don't all have to agree to benefit, but because SD has only become an echochamber for all the cultural upheaval in the West, it may not play well on a site that struggles with lowering activity.... there is going to be increasing tendency to clique up in response to these issues and for personal issues to play out there.

[Christmas Dynasnow]

Originally Posted by Maru

I don't see LT as racist at all. His and other comnents in this section have been very helpful to understanding the anxiety behind the 2016 elections in the US.. which is kinda crazy actually because I've learned more here than from ppl back home. We don't all have to agree to benefit, but because SD has only become an echochamber for all the cultural upheaval in the West, it may not play well on a site that struggles with lowering activity.... there is going to be increasing tendency to clique up in response to these issues and for personal issues to play out there.

[Tom4784]

Plus Kirk, you're discounting the fact a lot of muslim people were raised in a western culture and current and future generations will only identify more with the freedoms they have in a western soceity. As I said to Oliver, chances are the minority of extremists will grow smaller with future generations, not bigger.

[bots]

it's simple laws of physics that if you add to much of something too quickly, you upset the equilibrium, so in order to avoid that, you fit a valve or a tap, add a drainage point etc etc

The same is true of cultures. If you swamp a culture it will get eroded. The only way to avoid that is to discourage ghettos and control the rate of entry based on what maintains the equilibrium.

I don't see how that is difficult to grasp and it is in no way racist or prejudiced to insist on that method of controlling the equilibrium.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

it's simple laws of physics that if you add to much of something too quickly, you upset the equilibrium, so in order to avoid that, you fit a valve or a tap, add a drainage point etc etc

The same is true of cultures. If you swamp a culture it will get eroded. The only way to avoid that is to discourage ghettos and control the rate of entry based on what maintains the equilibrium.

I don't see how that is difficult to grasp and it is in no way racist or prejudiced to insist on that method of controlling the equilibrium.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

it's simple laws of physics that if you add to much of something too quickly, you upset the equilibrium, so in order to avoid that, you fit a valve or a tap, add a drainage point etc etc

The same is true of cultures. If you swamp a culture it will get eroded. The only way to avoid that is to discourage ghettos and control the rate of entry based on what maintains the equilibrium.

I don't see how that is difficult to grasp and it is in no way racist or prejudiced to insist on that method of controlling the equilibrium.

Very true.

[Christmas Dynasnow]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

it's simple laws of physics that if you add to much of something too quickly, you upset the equilibrium, so in order to avoid that, you fit a valve or a tap, add a drainage point etc etc

The same is true of cultures. If you swamp a culture it will get eroded. The only way to avoid that is to discourage ghettos and control the rate of entry based on what maintains the equilibrium.

I don't see how that is difficult to grasp and it is in no way racist or prejudiced to insist on that method of controlling the equilibrium.

nailed it

[Tinsel Toes]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

it's simple laws of physics that if you add to much of something too quickly, you upset the equilibrium, so in order to avoid that, you fit a valve or a tap, add a drainage point etc etc

The same is true of cultures. If you swamp a culture it will get eroded. The only way to avoid that is to discourage ghettos and control the rate of entry based on what maintains the equilibrium.

I don't see how that is difficult to grasp and it is in no way racist or prejudiced to insist on that method of controlling the equilibrium.

Absolutely spot on there.

[Yuki Maru Hoshi]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

it's simple laws of physics that if you add to much of something too quickly, you upset the equilibrium, so in order to avoid that, you fit a valve or a tap, add a drainage point etc etc

The same is true of cultures. If you swamp a culture it will get eroded. The only way to avoid that is to discourage ghettos and control the rate of entry based on what maintains the equilibrium.

I don't see how that is difficult to grasp and it is in no way racist or prejudiced to insist on that method of controlling the equilibrium.

Yeah I had said something recently to this effect when I went to go reply to something in that order. I didn't post it because it got too long and I wasn't really "ready" to get my shoulder tapped to be pulled into any other surrounding discussions. I think people underestimate the sort of energy level that a person has to have in order to regularly participate in SD discussions that regularly branch off into multiple intense conversations...again, is another reason why I support a strict offtopic rule ... that is really unattractive for the casual user of this site, either because they don't have the energy or the time.. so we really are getting only skewed perspective in SD, we're not really seeing the casual player... we are only see posts from the most emotionally or intellectually invested of folk, usually... and that leads to a lot of conversations to appear to be more straight forward than they likely would be in the real world.

On topic to what you were saying... I grew up in a very old part of the city, and that is where the immigrant community has really moved in. First 18 years of my life I was not really "in touch" with the "white" culture as many so "colorfully" describe often... that's not really a thing where I came from.

Anyway, we used joke often about all our individual differences then and now. It's not stigmatized the way it is in other parts of the country... anyway, we all knocked our ghetto, but loved our community strangely enough. A lot of my peers have either moved out of the area or stubbornly stick to what they know... but it's not like they too didn't suffer from the same adverse effects of immigration. They had their own views.. it wasn't just a "white-ness" thing imo. Many of these people move to these areas for a better life.. and are also unhappy when they see negative conditions or the behaviors of a view usher in a speedy decline.

I think what you say about the speed of it is the gist of it for issues where space is limited. In Europe this is the case, but we also see this in older cities across the US. Houston is very young in comparison, but grew very rapidly and unchecked in recent decades, particularly in terms of sprawl... there is no geography in the way of that as it is flat as a pancake (short of the Gulf), and we suffer from chronic flooding now as a result of this constant ever-growing sprawl... it can take 1.5-2hrs (3 if counting rural areas) to get from one end of that sprawl to the other by highway (65mph~75mph)... so that's saying a lot.

Obviously being closer to the southern border, we get a higher intake of illegal immigrations. However, because of the ample space to grow... I feel like a lot of the mixed demographics can move around in a more liberated fashion, not only economically, but logistically in such a way that the cost of living is still relatively cheap, and even flood ins is cheap (thanks FEMA subdizing that policy).

Anyway, so we don't see these divisions play out here as they do in other parts of the US. For example, in CA and in the northeast, some of the most liberal parts of the country, there is a major income gap between lower and upper class... conversely, there's a much bigger chance the leaderships there are Democrat... that's not by coincidence imo. They are happy to take in as many folk into the welfare safety net unchecked... despite the fact this literally destroying those communities and causing not only civil unrest (particularly in Baltimore), but also putting in place gun control laws to try to stimmy that.. absolutely hasn't resolved gun crime.

So this emphasis on Conservatism in general just not wanting illegal immigration at all because of skin color, is false... there needs to be in essence, some form of crowd control. Keeping that in mind, racist folk in particular will always exist, and yes, they too engage in fear-mongering... but that's also coming from the left as well, "white flight", etc, all these racist terms... I think the same racial undertones can be found in a lot of the fear-mongering that is going on in our culture atm...

In Houston, obviously we have the ability to carry and access means to self-protection... which means an underpaid and undermanned police force is not going to present the issues it does in other areas... doesn't mean we don't have crime, but we don't feel we are under siege like other parts of the US, primarily because of the culture of self-protection. Besides, if an area is bad, it's very easy to pick up and to move out in comparison... given that cost of living is not really an issue here. Adding in those geographical benefits and unchecked sprawl, currently, we're not experiencing the issues that are rampant across the rest of the country...

My neighbors are first/second/third generation Americans from Mexico/South America. They have the same exact anxieties we all do about the liberal policies that are destroying our historic cities. In fact, one of my neighbors to my surprise who are first generation voted Trump... and we were still literally on the fence... like no joke, we were rebuilding the fence between our properties while we had this conversation. It was just before the vote, so it was a little bit ironic for us all.

Overall in talking to citizens here and away from the viral internet, I get the sense we all just want common sense policies and to be able to establish ourselves within our communities and live in a culture that makes sense for each of us... anyway, so I don't think that Trump is wrong to point out that some people are feeling under-represented by policies that have prevailed and allowed for a ransacking of their communities... citizens in foreign countries often have a problem with allowing white folk coming in in droves and watering down their culture, interfering with their way of life... so I don't think this is a unique aspect to Trump-ism.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Maru

Yeah I had said something recently to this effect when I went to go reply to something in that order. I didn't post it because it got too long and I wasn't really "ready" to get my shoulder tapped to be pulled into any other surrounding discussions. I think people underestimate the sort of energy level that a person has to have in order to regularly participate in SD discussions that regularly branch off into multiple intense conversations...again, is another reason why I support a strict offtopic rule ... that is really unattractive for the casual user of this site, either because they don't have the energy or the time.. so we really are getting only skewed perspective in SD, we're not really seeing the casual player... we are only see posts from the most emotionally or intellectually invested of folk, usually... and that leads to a lot of conversations to appear to be more straight forward than they likely would be in the real world.

On topic to what you were saying... I grew up in a very old part of the city, and that is where the immigrant community has really moved in. First 18 years of my life I was not really "in touch" with the "white" culture as many so "colorfully" describe often... that's not really a thing where I came from.

Anyway, we used joke often about all our individual differences then and now. It's not stigmatized the way it is in other parts of the country... anyway, we all knocked our ghetto, but loved our community strangely enough. A lot of my peers have either moved out of the area or stubbornly stick to what they know... but it's not like they too didn't suffer from the same adverse effects of immigration. They had their own views.. it wasn't just a "white-ness" thing imo. Many of these people move to these areas for a better life.. and are also unhappy when they see negative conditions or the behaviors of a view usher in a speedy decline.

I think what you say about the speed of it is the gist of it for issues where space is limited. In Europe this is the case, but we also see this in older cities across the US. Houston is very young in comparison, but grew very rapidly and unchecked in recent decades, particularly in terms of sprawl... there is no geography in the way of that as it is flat as a pancake (short of the Gulf), and we suffer from chronic flooding now as a result of this constant ever-growing sprawl... it can take 1.5-2hrs (3 if counting rural areas) to get from one end of that sprawl to the other by highway (65mph~75mph)... so that's saying a lot.

Obviously being closer to the southern border, we get a higher intake of illegal immigrations. However, because of the ample space to grow... I feel like a lot of the mixed demographics can move around in a more liberated fashion, not only economically, but logistically in such a way that the cost of living is still relatively cheap, and even flood ins is cheap (thanks FEMA subdizing that policy).

Anyway, so we don't see these divisions play out here as they do in other parts of the US. For example, in CA and in the northeast, some of the most liberal parts of the country, there is a major income gap between lower and upper class... conversely, there's a much bigger chance the leaderships there are Democrat... that's not by coincidence imo. They are happy to take in as many folk into the welfare safety net unchecked... despite the fact this literally destroying those communities and causing not only civil unrest (particularly in Baltimore), but also putting in place gun control laws to try to stimmy that.. absolutely hasn't resolved gun crime.

So this emphasis on Conservatism in general just not wanting illegal immigration at all because of skin color, is false... there needs to be in essence, some form of crowd control. Keeping that in mind, racist folk in particular will always exist, and yes, they too engage in fear-mongering... but that's also coming from the left as well, "white flight", etc, all these racist terms... I think the same racial undertones can be found in a lot of the fear-mongering that is going on in our culture atm...

In Houston, obviously we have the ability to carry and access means to self-protection... which means an underpaid and undermanned police force is not going to present the issues it does in other areas... doesn't mean we don't have crime, but we don't feel we are under siege like other parts of the US, primarily because of the culture of self-protection. Besides, if an area is bad, it's very easy to pick up and to move out in comparison... given that cost of living is not really an issue here. Adding in those geographical benefits and unchecked sprawl, currently, we're not experiencing the issues that are rampant across the rest of the country...

My neighbors are first/second/third generation Americans from Mexico/South America. They have the same exact anxieties we all do about the liberal policies that are destroying our historic cities. In fact, one of my neighbors to my surprise who are first generation voted Trump... and we were still literally on the fence... like no joke, we were rebuilding the fence between our properties while we had this conversation. It was just before the vote, so it was a little bit ironic for us all.

Overall in talking to citizens here and away from the viral internet, I get the sense we all just want common sense policies and to be able to establish ourselves within our communities and live in a culture that makes sense for each of us... anyway, so I don't think that Trump is wrong to point out that some people are feeling under-represented by policies that have prevailed and allowed for a ransacking of their communities... citizens in foreign countries often have a problem with allowing white folk coming in in droves and watering down their culture, interfering with their way of life... so I don't think this is a unique aspect to Trump-ism.

Oh we got around that.. We just killed them.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Oh we got around that.. We just killed them.

"We"? I've never killed anyone. I guess if we're a collective, I've been on the Moon!

[Cherry Christmas]

Kizzy and her family have gone abroad on a killing spree

[Scarlett.]

I don't know what dream world people live in these days, but British culture is most certainly not under threat.

[user104658]

Hmmm. Scotland isn't losing its culture... N.Ireland isn't losing its culture... if England is losing it's culture, frankly it's because England never had a particularly strong cultural heritage in the first place.

Or rather, it did, but it was rooted in the British Empire, the end of which had nowt to do with immigration (other than the fact that it left half the world dirt poor and keen to migrate).

Now before the bleating starts; I know that Scotland played a large role in the British Empire. But Scotland also has a strong cultural identity and history aside from that that England just doesn't have. There are some strong regional identities but those aren't really the same thing.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Hmmm. Scotland isn't losing its culture... N.Ireland isn't losing its culture... if England is losing it's culture, frankly it's because England never had a particularly strong cultural heritage in the first place.

Or rather, it did, but it was rooted in the British Empire, the end of which had nowt to do with immigration (other than the fact that it left half the world dirt poor and keen to migrate).

Now before the bleating starts; I know that Scotland played a large role in the British Empire. But Scotland also has a strong cultural identity and history aside from that that England just doesn't have. There are some strong regional identities but those aren't really the same thing.

Haggis, tartan kilts, bag-pipes and lots of rain - sounds like a strong culture you have there. You must tell us all where we are going so wrong.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Hmmm. Scotland isn't losing its culture... N.Ireland isn't losing its culture... if England is losing it's culture, frankly it's because England never had a particularly strong cultural heritage in the first place.

Or rather, it did, but it was rooted in the British Empire, the end of which had nowt to do with immigration (other than the fact that it left half the world dirt poor and keen to migrate).

Now before the bleating starts; I know that Scotland played a large role in the British Empire. But Scotland also has a strong cultural identity and history aside from that that England just doesn't have. There are some strong regional identities but those aren't really the same thing.

....hmmmm it is hard to fathom what the British culture is that we’re apparently losing...is it fish and chip suppers on a Friday night..?...but we haven’t lost that, we can still have fish and chips if we want to and if we’re lucky enough to be able to afford it because that culture comes with a very high price tag...is British culture going to the cinema and watching a movie with our families..?...but we haven’t lost that either, we can still do that but again...only if it’s affordable to us...but migrants haven’t been responsible for the high cost of things...is it going going out for a family picnic, is that what the culture that is so British...having a pub lunch on a Sunday....?...I’m just kind of wondering which boxes of ‘ ritish culture’ are not being ticked because of the ‘harm’ of migrants...it’s not an easy one to find the answers for...maybe it’s because the migrants took all of our NHS away...no it can’t be that because the governments through time have caused that to happen by not keeping investment in line with growing population...or maybe that was just impossible to do...?...maybe it’s because the migrants took our benefits..no again, it can’t be that because it’s goverment purse strings that is the main factor there...the pesky governments, not the pesky migrants...anyway I’ll carry on giving thought to what it is the migrants have harmed with the apparent loss of our culture...and when I get that eureka moment...I’ll be on those darn migrants, how very dare they cos I’m not having it, TS.....(...help me though in finding out where the harm came, TS ...because I’m struggling a bit on my own...)...

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Ammi

....hmmmm it is hard to fathom what the British culture is that we’re apparently losing...is it fish and chip suppers on a Friday night..?...but we haven’t lost that, we can still have fish and chips if we want to and if we’re lucky enough to be able to afford it because that culture comes with a very high price tag...is British culture going to the cinema and watching a movie with our families..?...but we haven’t lost that either, we can still do that but again...only if it’s affordable to us...but migrants haven’t been responsible for the high cost of things...is it going going out for a family picnic, is that what the culture that is so British...having a pub lunch on a Sunday....?...I’m just kind of wondering which boxes of ‘ ritish culture’ are not being ticked because of the ‘harm’ of migrants...it’s not an easy one to find the answers for...maybe it’s because the migrants took all of our NHS away...no it can’t be that because the governments through time have caused that to happen by not keeping investment in line with growing population...or maybe that was just impossible to do...?...maybe it’s because the migrants took our benefits..no again, it can’t be that because it’s goverment purse strings that is the main factor there...the pesky governments, not the pesky migrants...anyway I’ll carry on giving thought to what it is the migrants have harmed with the apparent loss of our culture...and when I get that eureka moment...I’ll be on those darn migrants, how very dare they cos I’m not having it, TS.....(...help me though in finding out where the harm came, TS ...because I’m struggling a bit on my own...)...

Introducing large numbers from misogynistic cultures to The West is detrimental to women in the West no matter what some people say. We have seen many examples of that already with some men and women trying to tell British women what to wear and to cover up.

Some insist that our more forward thinking way of life will rub off on people from these cultures with time rather than the other way round but if the demographics of cultures in this country change significantly that is unlikely to be the case. Religious ideology runs deep and the optimism of some that once people experience more freedoms their views will change is more optimistic than realistic.

Personally I find it quite offensive when those defending mass immigration attack and insult British culture and use it as a reason why we shouldn’t care about things such as culture as ours apparently is so invisible and unimportant we wouldn’t be losing anything of any value anyway - another big fat straw man. Many, many Brits love their culture and way of life and won’t just hand over the reigns to suit the agendas of others.

[Cherry Christmas]

Personally I don't think it is a loss of culture so much as a loss of diversity and communities, when I moved to the area I live in 20 years ago there as a great mix of people, of all nationalities and creeds, now it is more or less an Asian area, and where my sons went to school they were spot the white on their class photos it doesn't bother me as I wasn't born here but I can understand that people who were born and bred in an area like this and have had family homes for generations are gradually they have become a minority in the area of their birth, the other issue is even the second and third generation Indian/Pakastanis speak their own language to each other, not English. My neighbours are all very nice but there is a barrier and a point beyond which I would never be taken into their circle, that is my experience anyway.