[JerseyWins]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Where in "uniform" did you get 1 shirt and 1 pair of trousers?

I'm sure they're capable of buying more than 1 set of clothes that adhere to uniform standards.

If you "express yourself" via some shirt or something then you're probably not very interesting.

- First part, ok I figured this was probably how it went but I thought maybe the schools only give like 2 pairs of each or something. And if it is one pair from a school, that's a problem.

Like 5 shirts & 2 pants are fair enough for cleanliness where people only re-wear the same clothes occasionally between each wash.

- Second part, even if it's not expressing themselves, it's allowing kids to have their own style and wardrobe rather than feel obligated to wearing one outfit every day, every week, every year for like 7+ hours a day.

[Matthew.]

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

- First part, ok I figured this was probably how it went but I thought maybe the schools only give like 2 pairs of each or something. And if it is one pair from a school, that's a problem.

Like 5 shirts & 2 pants are fair enough for cleanliness where people only re-wear the same clothes occasionally between each wash.

No, you have to buy the uniform yourself So it’s up to you how many of each item you buy

[Ant.]

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

- First part, ok I figured this was probably how it went but I thought maybe the schools only give like 2 pairs of each or something. And if it is one pair from a school, that's a problem.

Like 5 shirts & 2 pants are fair enough for cleanliness where people only re-wear the same clothes occasionally between each wash.

- Second part, even if it's not expressing themselves, it's allowing kids to have their own style and wardrobe rather than feel obligated to wearing one outfit every day, every week, every year for like 7+ hours a day.

School doesn't supply uniforms, which is where there can be an issue, since it's argued that school uniforms can be expensive for people.

As for shirts, given most schools wear button up shirts you can buy in any shop in a multipack, people end up having like 3/4 shirts alone anyway. I always had two pairs of pants but meh

Also it's... not deep. The kid won't exactly be 'expressing' themselves as I'm sure for a good majority of cases their mums will be picking their outfits when they're young and even still I don't know many people at a young age who wears clothes to 'express' themselves. I know you said 'even if' it's not about expressing themselves, but it sorta sounds like you believe the freedom to wear a t-shirt and jeans in school is a healthy way of expressing yourself and it's... not even a form of expression

And as people have said, there does come into play that some people may be bullied for their dress sense. I wore chinos one day on non-uniform day and someone was like "HA! Nice chinos" which is... really mild bc I was like, 14 and couldn't care like hurr durr I'm wearing something comfy that I wanna wear, but if I had low self confidence and had something actually bad said to me I'd be pretty bothered especially at a young age. Even if people haven't seen it, it does happen - kids are judged for what they wear. So then they want clothes which will mean they'll fit in with the others, and then they'll outgrow clothes, then they'll want new clothes, then they need new clothes for new fashion, it all becomes a ridiculous cycle that's avoided by asking kids to wear the same thing.

I do think it becomes ridiculous when it comes to girls not being allowed to wear trousers (I can't think of a time in which it wouldn't be allowed in any work environment to wear trousers instead of a skirt but meh) and on short haircuts and maybe one or two other ridiculously strict rules but overall the idea of uniform is great to me. Kids can wear what they want outside of school, and they can wear what they like outside of work.

Will all jobs require a uniform? Not necessarily. In fact, some jobs need strict uniform rules for hygiene purposes. It certainly makes a kid familiar with having to wear the same thing in work every day and while no doubt they could learn to just... be comfortable wearing the same thing nearly every day as they get there, they could also just like, learn as a kid

Like maybe it's just me and my friends but we've never had an issue with having to wear uniform. Like genuinely I wasn't fussed about not being able to wear trainers or having to wear a jumper to school. It was comfortable. I didn't feel 'obligated', I was made to wear it but I certainly didn't feel like I have to. Now obviously not everyone likes uniform but I've yet to meet a person to be bothered by uniform. Kids =/= adults yes, but uniform is uniform, regardless of age. Like I can sorta see where you're coming from but uniform isn't as bad as you think

[JerseyWins]

Originally Posted by Matthew.

No, you have to buy the uniform yourself So it’s up to you how many of each item you buy

Oh ok that's pretty good then, so at least it's up to the student/their parents on how many pairs they want to buy & have at their disposal


But another thing, how the hell do uniforms prevent bullying? There are still ways to get bullied for your uniform (dirty, worn out, if the person doesn't look good wearing it or doesn't wear it the "cool way" or something like that). Not to mention if a poor student's the victim of bullying from being poor, then the uniforms probably aren't going to change that especially outside of school.

A fear of bullying should not be a selling point for uniforms, they should be taking measures to prevent the bullying not prevent a student's originality and comfort with themselves (physically & mentally with what they wear).

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

- First part, ok I figured this was probably how it went but I thought maybe the schools only give like 2 pairs of each or something. And if it is one pair from a school, that's a problem.

Like 5 shirts & 2 pants are fair enough for cleanliness where people only re-wear the same clothes occasionally between each wash.

- Second part, even if it's not expressing themselves, it's allowing kids to have their own style and wardrobe rather than feel obligated to wearing one outfit every day, every week, every year for like 7+ hours a day.

Because god forbid kids are instilled with a bit of discipline that life isn't about everything they want?

Next you'll be saying they shouldn't feel "obligated" to attend school at all.

[JerseyWins]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Because god forbid kids are instilled with a bit of discipline that life isn't about everything they want?

Next you'll be saying they shouldn't feel "obligated" to attend school at all.

Taking away part of what makes them creative and their own person =/= discipline

Of course, there are other ways to show originality and creativity, and for more personality-based reasons which is more important, but matching, restricted uniforms just set a bad precedent for that and it's just so basic with all the students wearing the same thing. It's not that serious lol, just let them wear what they want as kids & teenagers ffs.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

Of course, there are other ways to show originality and creativity, and for more personality-based reasons which is more important, but matching, restricted uniforms just set a bad precedent for that and it's just so basic with all the students wearing the same thing. It's not that serious lol, just let them wear what they want as kids & teenagers ffs.

Well, you are taking it that seriously if you think it's impacting their development as individuals. You can't have it both ways.

"So basic". Maybe if more schools had uniform, kids would come up with less "basic" phrases.

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

Taking away part of what makes them creative and their own person =/= discipline

If your "own person" is in a pair of jeans you need help IMHO.

[JerseyWins]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Well, you are taking it that seriously if you think it's impacting their development as individuals. You can't have it both ways.

"So basic". Maybe if more schools had uniform, kids would come up with less "basic" phrases.



If your "own person" is in a pair of jeans you need help IMHO.

How am I taking it serious? I'm just saying how I feel about uniforms and I have people like you & Ant saying it's invalid. When it comes down to it I just think students should wear what they want in school. Are piercings / tattoos / hairstyles / etc. not a way for people to express themselves and show their own creative/unique style? It's the same thing with clothing.

Also "Maybe if more schools had uniform, kids would come up with less "basic" phrases."

You might just be sarcastic, at least I'd hope, but what a basic way of thinking. Uniforms have nothing to do with a kid's learning. The only thing it can possibly do is hurt their learning/attendance if they don't like the uniforms and/or don't feel comfortable in class. It's like Jason saying that wearing uniforms will make students more inclined to dress better in the future for job interviews. That's not true, students can and should easily learn what they should/shouldn't wear for a job interview & job/business/formal setting on their own. It doesn't mean they need to have a restricted specific outfit for school every day to learn that.

I don't think there's a benefit in it for the students outside of it being easier for them to pick an outfit in the morning (since they literally don't have to make a choice). So why do it if no real benefit? That's just what I think.

A school might prefer it to "look better" or be more in-sync and that's why I think we do see schools with uniforms but that doesn't mean everyone has to agree lol.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

How am I taking it serious? I'm just saying how I feel about uniforms and I have people like you & Ant saying it's invalid. When it comes down to it I just think students should wear what they want in school. Are piercings / tattoos / hairstyles / etc. not a way for people to express themselves and show their own creative/unique style? It's the same thing with clothing.

Well "Taking away part of what makes them creative and their own person" is pretty serious.

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

Also "Maybe if more schools had uniform, kids would come up with less "basic" phrases."

You might just be sarcastic, at least I'd hope, but what a basic way of thinking.

Basic again. Mix it up, be creative and original. Use other words.

Maybe focussing less on their outfits in school (which they can still focus on outside of school anyway) it forces the kids to be creative and original in other more important ways.

[Jordan.]

The pros of a uniform far outweigh the seemingly one con of "how will I possibly express my huge personality for these 6 hours of the day "

[JerseyWins]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Well "Taking away part of what makes them creative and their own person" is pretty serious.

Well this part is literally a fact so I guess it is serious then

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Maybe focussing less on their outfits in school (which they can still focus on outside of school anyway) it forces the kids to be creative and original in other more important ways.

Well I already said there are different & more important ways to be creative and original. Doesn't mean attire isn't one of those ways though even if it's not so important. A lot of people like to pick out and create outfits that show their uniqueness. And some may just like to feel comfortable in a learning environment. I'm not saying it's something that's going to scar them but they should have that freedom if you ask me.

Meanwhile the benefits of uniforms in school for the students are?

[JerseyWins]

Originally Posted by Jordan.

The pros of a uniform far outweigh the seemingly one con of "how will I possibly express my huge personality for these 6 hours of the day "

Why are these uniforms so important though? It's not going to change them mentally, the only thing it CAN do is make them feel restricted and/or uncomfortable. Are they going to feel empowered for having the same outfit as everyone else? Idgi

And it gives them 5 extra minutes in the morning that they would've wasted on picking out an outfit.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

Well this part is literally a fact so I guess it is serious then

How so?

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

Well I already said there are different & more important ways to be creative and original. Doesn't mean attire isn't one of those ways though even if it's not so important. A lot of people like to pick out and create outfits that show their uniqueness. And some may just like to feel comfortable in a learning environment. I'm not saying it's something that's going to scar them but they should have that freedom if you ask me.

Meanwhile the benefits of uniforms in school for the students are?

But... they have that freedom. School is 6 hours a day, 5 days a week.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

Why are these uniforms so important though? It's not going to change them mentally, the only thing it CAN do is make them feel restricted and/or uncomfortable. Are they going to feel empowered for having the same outfit as everyone else? Idgi

And it gives them 5 extra minutes in the morning that they would've wasted on picking out an outfit.

So, it's not important, not going to change them, but it's such a big deal that Jennie NEEDS to wear her jeans to school to express how different and unique and original she is and it's being stifled by uniform rules?

Ok.

[JerseyWins]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

So, it's not important, not going to change them, but it's such a big deal that Jennie NEEDS to wear her jeans to school to express how different and unique and original she is and it's being stifled by uniform rules?

Ok.

You're looking too far into it just because I said clothes help people express themselves (it's not this huge important psychological thing but it's a fact). It's a less important way of someone expressing themselves through their personality. Take that out of it though:

It's as simple as: if a kid wants to wear sweats & a t-shirt to school, they shouldn't be told no they have to wear this restricted uniform in order to LEARN because their parents want them going to that school with these uniform rules in place. The student's education is all that should matter that's why I don't think schools should have uniforms.

I want to know why it's such a big benefit for the students to have the uniform rules in place.

[JerseyWins]

To add to that:

"It's such a big deal that Jennie NEEDS to wear her jeans to school"

It's not and I'm not saying it is. You're arguing against a student having the freedom to wear what they want and giving no real reasons why either lmao. There should be reasons to go against the NORM of everyday life of picking out your clothes in the morning like any adult would do

Is it such a big deal if a kid wants to wear sweat pants & a comfy shirt to school? I really don't think it should be and that's my whole argument.

School: Uniforms are a thing
Me: Is it such a big deal that kids might want to dress freely?
You: Is it such a big deal that kids might want to dress freely?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

To add to that:

"It's such a big deal that Jennie NEEDS to wear her jeans to school"

It's not and I'm not saying it is. You're arguing against a student having the freedom to wear what they want and giving no real reasons why either lmao. There should be reasons to go against the NORM of everyday life of picking out your clothes in the morning like any adult would do

Against the norm of everyday life?

So, men go to work in suits and ties and women in pencil skirts and blouses because that was their own individual, original and creative choice that is unique to them and no one else? Ok.

What's your next comment? Kids should be allowed to decide whether to go to school because adults get to decide whether they go to their job?

School: Uniforms are a thing
Me: Is it such a big deal that kids might want to dress freely?
You: Is it such a big deal that kids might want to dress freely?

Erm, no, I'm asking why you think uniform is a bad idea, your answer being that it stifles them creatively and as individuals then in the same breath saying "So what if there's no uniform it aint a big deal". It's either a big deal or it isn't, you can't use both arguments.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

You're looking too far into it just because I said clothes help people express themselves (it's not this huge important psychological thing but it's a fact). It's a less important way of someone expressing themselves through their personality. Take that out of it though:

It's as simple as: if a kid wants to wear sweats & a t-shirt to school, they shouldn't be told no they have to wear this restricted uniform in order to LEARN because their parents want them going to that school with these uniform rules in place. The student's education is all that should matter that's why I don't think schools should have uniforms.

But this doesn't make sense. If the education is all that should matter, what's the issue with uniforms?

Also, over here it's not a case of "Wear it because your parents chose this school" the vast majority of schools have uniforms. It's the "norm" funnily enough.

[Jordan.]

The funny thing is the students that actually care about their education, follow the rules and generally have their priorities in the right place don't give a **** if they have to wear a uniform, it's the one's who are defiant for the sake of it that kick up a fuss.

[JerseyWins]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Against the norm of everyday life?

So, men go to work in suits and ties and women in pencil skirts and blouses because that was their own individual, original and creative choice that is unique to them and no one else? Ok.

They choose their own outfits though? Usually it just has to be formally dressed. They do it for someone's business and get paid as well... if for some reason they didn't like the dress code they don't even have to take the job. It's still perfectly free.

Originally Posted by Marsh.

But this doesn't make sense. If the education is all that should matter, what's the issue with uniforms?

Also, over here it's not a case of "Wear it because your parents chose this school" the vast majority of schools have uniforms. It's the "norm" funnily enough.

Because what the students are wearing doesn't affect their train of thought so why is the school implementing this? (but in some rare cases it can negatively affect their learning if they're distracted with how uncomfortable they are or how much they don't like it tho - or if they become rebellious from it)

You're acting like my argument is against students learning because uniforms are a necessity or something. Uniforms don't make them smarter or learn more efficiently.

And it became the norm but that doesn't mean it was or should be, normality in life is: Person buys & chooses their outfits to wear. That's how society works People aren't forced to do anything.

If you think uniforms are good then so be it but at least give me some reasons then

Erm, no, I'm asking why you think uniform is a bad idea, your answer being that it stifles them creatively and as individuals then in the same breath saying "So what if there's no uniform it aint a big deal". It's either a big deal or it isn't, you can't use both arguments.

It does limit them creatively in one of the many ways you can express yourself creatively. They can still be creative in other ways, that's why it's not that big of a deal when it comes down to it, but I don't see why they should be restricted in how they can dress as long as it's not too revealing... Again, I'm not making some big psychological argument where the kids won't develop properly if they're wearing school uniforms like you're trying to make out lol.. But if little Jimmy would like to learn in sweat pants & a hoodie or their favorite jeans that should be all cool and dandy IMO. They'll learn just the same if not more relaxed & focused.

Some may like the uniforms, some may not... it should be an option at least

I'm asking you why it's a good idea and you're giving me nothing.

[JerseyWins]

Originally Posted by Jordan.

The funny thing is the students that actually care about their education, follow the rules and generally have their priorities in the right place don't give a **** if they have to wear a uniform, it's the one's who are defiant for the sake of it that kick up a fuss.

Those students are going to have their priorities straight regardless of a uniform or not, so why give the ones who aren't in that same state of mind another reason to revolt and not be happy with learning?

It's not free and it's not logical

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

Those students are going to have their priorities straight regardless of a uniform or not, so why give the ones who aren't in that same state of mind another reason to revolt and not be happy with learning?

Why would they revolt? It's not that serious, or is it?

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

It's not free and it's not logical

And wearing your own clothes is free? In many cases it will be many times more.

[Jordan.]

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

Those students are going to have their priorities straight regardless of a uniform or not, so why give the ones who aren't in that same state of mind another reason to revolt and not be happy with learning?

It's not free and it's not logical

If they're not happy with the rules they signed up for when they applied for the school they still have all the freedom in the world to go elsewhere.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

They choose their own outfits though? Usually it just has to be formally dressed. They do it for someone's business and get paid as well... if for some reason they didn't like the dress code they don't even have to take the job. It's still perfectly free.

Didn't have to take the job?

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

Because what the students are wearing doesn't affect their train of thought so why is the school implementing this? (but in some rare cases it can negatively affect their learning if they're distracted with how uncomfortable they are or how much they don't like it tho - or if they become rebellious from it)

You're acting like my argument is against students learning because uniforms are a necessity or something. Uniforms don't make them smarter or learn more efficiently.

I'm not. I'm responding to you contradicting your arguments for own clothes and against uniforms.

So, do you think we should allow own clothes because clothing doesn't affect them or their learning or are we against uniforms because "they're uncomfortable" enough to affect their learning? Although, if the uniform is the right size and fit there's no reason for it to not be comfortable.

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

It does limit them creatively in one of the many ways you can express yourself creatively. They can still be creative in other ways, that's why it's not that big of a deal when it comes down to it, but I don't see why they should be restricted in how they can dress as long as it's not too revealing... Again, I'm not making some big psychological argument where the kids won't develop properly if they're wearing school uniforms like you're trying to make out lol.. But if little Jimmy would like to learn in sweat pants & a hoodie or their favorite jeans that should be all cool and dandy IMO. They'll learn just the same if not more relaxed & focused.

So you're not making a psychological argument... until you are making one as Jimmy is more focussed?

[JerseyWins]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Why would they revolt? It's not that serious, or is it?



And wearing your own clothes is free? In many cases it will be many times more.

To a kid, especially not in the right frame of mind, it could easily be

I thought this was a serious debate but you literally give no input to pro-uniforms or even responses to my actual argument... It's just literally "JENNIE needs to wear her jeans" and smartass comments like that. So I guess I'm done with my point

Originally Posted by Jordan.

If they're not happy with the rules they signed up for when they applied for the school they still have all the freedom in the world to go elsewhere.

Do the parents not decide the schools their students go to over there?