[Glenn.]

What the **** is this thread?

[Niamh.]

I think I'd be somewhere between 2 and 3 in TS's points of "life"

[Nicky91]

thank you for updating thread title

now i do understand it


and yes i do consider those a life, i'm against abortion

[Crimson Dynamo]

Oh the thread title has been changed....

[Kizzy]

Effectively this is ' the police didn't murder her baby because until it's born it's not a person'

You don't have to be a BLM member to see that's 50 shades of wrong.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Effectively this is ' the police didn't murder her baby because until it's born it's not a person'

You don't have to be a BLM member to see that's 50 shades of wrong.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Yes there have been cases when pregnant women are killed that the unborn baby is also classed as being murdered, so yes it's a life.

[Zizu]

I think our ‘age’ should be calculated from 9 months before we pop out .. you can still celebrate the ‘birthday’


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[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Zizu

I think our ‘age’ should be calculated from 9 months before we pop out .. you can still celebrate the ‘birthday’


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Life doesn't begin at conception, regardless of everything, I think that's something most of us can agree on.

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Life doesn't begin at conception, regardless of everything, I think that's something most of us can agree on.

But there is LIFE fairly soon after .. certainly not 9 months later


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[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Zizu

But there is LIFE fairly soon after .. certainly not 9 months later


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Months later, not soon and even then, unless the baby is born 30+ weeks into the pregnancy, it's chances of survival are not great.

Until science discovers a way to consistently birth babies successfully from an earlier point then it's just pointless to say that life begins before birth.

[Kazanne]

For me life begins at conception ,it's a living thing as it grows all the time and develops , when the brain and heart etc are all in place and they can the feel ,hear and move , and they are sentient ,then imo life definitely starts before birth, and in some cases has been proven to survive at a few months.

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

For me life begins at conception ,it's a living thing as it grows all the time and develops , when the brain and heart etc are all in place and they can the feel ,hear and move , and they are sentient ,then imo life definitely starts before birth, and in some cases has been proven to survive at a few months.

Exactly !

I mean the clue is in the word LIFE ...

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[Nicky91]

same as with Lacy Peterson, whom was also pregnant at time of her murder

which also counted as a double murder if i remember correctly, murder of Lacy and unborn son Connor


so yes a unborn child is a life because his/her heart starts beating in the womb that too

[user104658]

You have to be verrrrrrrry careful when it comes to legal definitions though because you could accidentally end up making abortion illegal by precedent. Legal definitions are very different to scientific definitions or philosophical ponderings.

[Beso]

That's just stupid.

[Cherie]

If something is growing its alive..if you are growing tiny seedlings you would consider them alive even though they need light and water to survive

Babies start kicking between 16 and 20 weeks they are most certainly alive at that point

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by parmnion

That's just stupid.

Good argument.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Good argument.

What's to argue ..you are plain and simply wrong

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by parmnion

What's to argue ..you are plain and simply wrong

If you can't qualify why i'm wrong, your input is pointless. This is a debate after all.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

If you can't qualify why i'm wrong, your input is pointless. This is a debate after all.

Not mine...crack on.

[smudgie]

As the proud great aunt of a fit and healthy dance champion that was born at 26 weeks I have no doubt that the foetus is a fully born baby that can survive outside the womb at an earlier stage in pregnancy than 30 weeks.
Her baby brother was born at 26 weeks about a year before her and only survived for 6 hours unfortunately.
I am definitely pro choice, but unless there is a danger to the mother I feel 24 weeks is far too late for termination.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by smudgie

As the proud great aunt of a fit and healthy dance champion that was born at 26 weeks I have no doubt that the foetus is a fully born baby that can survive outside the womb at an earlier stage in pregnancy than 30 weeks.
Her baby brother was born at 26 weeks about a year before her and only survived for 6 hours unfortunately.
I am definitely pro choice, but unless there is a danger to the mother I feel 24 weeks is far too late for termination.

Agree with all that 24 weeks for anything other than medical reasons is too late in my book

[Crimson Dynamo]

Any mother who unfortunately lost a baby before birth very much feels it was alive, I'd imagine

My mum did

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Any mother who unfortunately lost a baby before birth very much feels it was alive, I'd imagine

My mum did

Yup, try telling my best friend's mum that "Lucy" was just a bundle of cells, but only if you're willing to spend the rest of your day looking for your head.

Using whether or not someone can live without medical intervention is an odd goalpost; medical intervention is basically a given nowadays, and plenty of older people wouldn't be around today if it wasn't for machines.