[the_stillness]

Originally posted by sunshine30

Ok so imagine your daughter with no father but 2 mothers, don't you think there will be a change in her mind ? I don't know how old is she but first of all, when you are a child, the girl is attracted by the father it's "Oedipe" and at school, she won't understand and she would be surely bullied (I didn't say all of them but we all know kids in general are cruel towards the differences)
I'm not saying a gay couple isn't able to love a child, of course they will and fortunatly.
And I agree, what the law decided, the law decided and so far it makes a great job because our societies aren't ready for that.

And it's not true, you must have 16 and 3 months in order to have sex in France but I don't mind lol. But would you give me the point of telling me the different ages please.

I am aware about being picked on at School. Both myself and my girlfriend have experienced it to some degree. I must also point out that some children get bullied a lot and for all different types of reasons. Then you need to look at the total amount of children within a School and if the School had a couple of children who had gay parents - that would be a very small percentage overall. I would imagine that the teachers would be told of those two childrens situation- [Both having gay parents] and deal with it accordingly. Nobody here will say that it will be easy. But nobody should say that it shouldn't be accepted either.

I realise that you have taken a bit of flack over this by a couple of other members within this topic, but that is understandable - as your views are rather harsh towards the rights of gay people. Care to know how many gay people reside in the United Kingdom Sunshine? It is a BIG proportion of the population and growing fast. Their voice is getting heard more and more - Elton John is very much a gay campaigner.

In regards to my last comment - whereby I was stating the legal consent for sex in Spain and France. The reason I mentioned it was, that I saw this website - http://www.avert.org/aofconsent.htm

Nothing more than that! It does say '15' for France??

[SairBabi92]

Not too sure. I mean as long as the adoptive parents provide the child with a good home & childhood it shouldn't matter the sexuality of them. But on the other hand, the child could get bullied at school...it would be a hard decision for a gay couple to make!

[Captain.Remy]

Message original : the_stillness

I realise that you have taken a bit of flack over this by a couple of other members within this topic, but that is understandable - as your views are rather harsh towards the rights of gay people. Care to know how many gay people reside in the United Kingdom Sunshine? It is a BIG proportion of the population and growing fast. Their voice is getting heard more and more - Elton John is very much a gay campaigner.

In regards to my last comment - whereby I was stating the legal consent for sex in Spain and France. The reason I mentioned it was, that I saw this website - http://www.avert.org/aofconsent.htm

Nothing more than that! It does say '15' for France??

I understand people can have their opinion and I respect that. I was for thr gay marriage, I did agree with that law, something which won't happen in France for exemple.
My view was harsh towards gay people ? So now we can't have an opinion about that, it's so forbidden, it's a subject you can't touch, but sorry I talk about it even if people won't like me, I work like that, sorry for them.

Good for gay people are heard more and more and I know that gay people are a big proportion of the British one but they aren't obligated to be harsh.

Well for your last comment it's quite strange, I'm not sure about 15, maybe it changed but as much as I know it's 16 and 3 months but I will ask.

Thanks the_stillness for respecting me and having a normal discussion on the topic, I can see not all of the members are closed-minded.

[Ruth]

Originally posted by sunshine30

Don't be afraid, accept it, you aren't able to see that somebody has a different opinion, it's not the end of the world.

Oh I can totally accept different opinions. In fact, my friends and I have some massive debates bcause we have different opinions on many things. I usually welcome different opinions. Yours, in this case though, I cannot accept or respect. But please don't assume that because I think your attitude on this matter is wrong, I cannot accept other opinions generally.

[Ruth]

Originally posted by sunshine30

That's your right, do what you want with your children, I have no doubt about your love for your kid, I'm nobody to doubt about it.
I have nothing to prove you at all, I just express what I learnt, if you aren't able to understand and to respect that so you have nothing to do in a forum really. I really don't understand why you are so rude when somebody doesn't agree with you.

Strange that you say that you are nobody to doubt Psyclocke's love for his child - yet you have no problem saying that he should not even be allowed to have a child?

[Captain.Remy]

Message original : Ruth


Oh I can totally accept different opinions. In fact, my friends and I have some massive debates bcause we have different opinions on many things. I usually welcome different opinions. Yours, in this case though, I cannot accept or respect. But please don't assume that because I think your attitude on this matter is wrong, I cannot accept other opinions generally.

What's so different between mine and the others ? It's an opinion at all, it's quite wrong to choose which one you would like to debate with, quite immature but well I don't mind talking to someone who don't respect what I think. It's a waste of time, I give too much attention to you finally.
And I assume that, take that, like it or not, it's like that.

[Captain.Remy]

Message original : Ruth

Strange that you say that you are nobody to doubt Psyclocke's love for his child - yet you have no problem saying that he should not even be allowed to have a child?

You completely missed what I'm saying from the beginning, it's really disapointing to see how much people don't want to understand anything about other's people opinion.
Psyclocke can love his child ad much as he wants, there is no problem about it, I didn't say gay people can't love, don't get me wrong with that.

[Ruth]

Originally posted by sunshine30

What's so different between mine and the others ? It's an opinion at all, it's quite wrong to choose which one you would like to debate with, quite immature but well I don't mind talking to someone who don't respect what I think. It's a waste of time, I give too much attention to you finally.
And I assume that, take that, like it or not, it's like that.

Don't you sometimes find some people's opinions so contemptible that you don't want to debate the subject? If you could provide any reasonable arguments to back up your opinions, I would listen to them. But you just keep on about what you learnt in your class - which to me, isn't enough to make me think your opinion is worth debating. I'm just being honest here - you should appreciate that at least.

To clarify - I didn't say that you were saying anyone was incapable of loving a child. I genuinely apologise if you were unable to understand what I was saying.

[Ruth]

Actually, I don't think it's immature to choose who you want to debate with and who you don't want to debate with. I could say it's immature to base everything on what you learnt in class (I speak from experience here - when you develop a bit more maturity, you will maybe learn to think for yourself, and question what you are told in class rather than blindly accepting it).

Now - you say you devote too much attention to me, and I have CERTAINLY devoted too much attention to you. So on that note, I am signing off from this thread

[Captain.Remy]

Message original : Ruth
Actually, I don't think it's immature to choose who you want to debate with and who you don't want to debate with. I could say it's immature to base everything on what you learnt in class (I speak from experience here - when you develop a bit more maturity, you will maybe learn to think for yourself, and question what you are told in class rather than blindly accepting it).

Now - you say you devote too much attention to me, and I have CERTAINLY devoted too much attention to you. So on that note, I am signing off from this thread

What I learnt in school is not only lessons, we had some psychologists and scientists who have been here, we read speechs, we did watch videos.
I would have learnt that outside of my school, the school has nothing to do in.

[Captain.Remy]

Message original : Ruth
Don't you sometimes find some people's opinions so contemptible that you don't want to debate the subject? If you could provide any reasonable arguments to back up your opinions, I would listen to them. But you just keep on about what you learnt in your class - which to me, isn't enough to make me think your opinion is worth debating. I'm just being honest here - you should appreciate that at least.

To clarify - I didn't say that you were saying anyone was incapable of loving a child. I genuinely apologise if you were unable to understand what I was saying.

I appreciate the fact you are honest but I don't like the fact you say my opinions are just based on what I learnt, as I said in the post before, it wasn't just lessons in the proper term, we had proofs and professional people wh did talk about it.

[GhettoSuperstar]

The more gay adoptions happen then the more people will get used to the idea and it won't be frowned apon.

[Arneldo]

I'm very shocked at some of the opinions by some the members on here.

Of course gay people should be allowed adopt. They have every right. Just because a person is attracted to a person of the same sex, loves that person and wants to be with that person does not mean they are to discriminated against and cannot have every other joy a "normal" couple couple could have.

I'm gay and I would love to adopt at some point in the far future.

[geoking66]

Originally posted by Arneldo
I'm very shocked at some of the opinions by some the members on here.

Of course gay people should be allowed adopt. They have every right. Just because a person is attracted to a person of the same sex, loves that person and wants to be with that person does not mean they are to discriminated against and cannot have every other joy a "normal" couple couple could have.

I'm gay and I would love to adopt at some point in the far future.

Exactly. Same here, but I probably wouldn't adopt, honestly I don't really want kids much.

[rooterwar]

I think a gay couple should have the same rights with adoption as any other couple but, the treatment of the child by his/her peers does bother me. yes it's easy to say well the kid shouldn't be picked on because of it but kids can be so cruel and like it or not bullying happens. The gay couple must bear this in mind.

I was fostered for most of my childhood and I can say now i would have been so grateful to have had a gay couple adopt me rather than what i went through with a straight couple with kids of their own, cruel and wicked just doesn't cut it but would i have wished for the same when i was a child? but then i guess 'Gay' was not so acceptable so much in the 70's so it probably wouldn't have happened anyway!

I think if a gay couple can offer a loving, caring, safe home for a child not wanted by anyone else then they should go for it!

[Sunny_01]

Sunshine I think what Ruth is trying to say is that yes we can learn things in school, from scientists etc.. but when it all comes down to it everything is about tolerance and what we are prepared to accept as human beings.

I see where you come from but find that your opinion (which you are entitled to) is totally opposed to what I believe and from what I read Ruth is opposed to as well. Speaking for myself I like to see children happy and the sexuality of parents really doesnt come into it.

Children are bullied for a variety of reasons not just because their parents are gay, if they are susceptible to bullying it will happen regardless.

Tolerance is wonderful acceptance is better still

[Ruth]

Thanks Sunny - that was exactly what I was trying to say.

Sunshine - I'm sorry if I sounded rude or harsh. I know you are entitled to your opinion, and even though I disagree with you, I would defend your right to be able to express it. I was tired lst night, and I probably took your posts to heart because I have two very good friends who are in a same sex relationship, and who hope to adopt. I know that any child they adopt will have a very loving and safe childhood, so your comment really got to me. I know I was probably quite rude, and while I stand by my opinions 100%, I shouldn't have expressed them in the way I did. Sometimes I get carried away when it's a subject I feel so strongly about.

[Captain.Remy]

I understand Ruth, I didn't want to schock anyone or to offense anyone. I didn't want to be mean, I just expressed what I learnt and some of my gay friends (I have 2) don't want to adopt a child because the know they won't be able to give him what a heterosexual couple has to give.
But of course I do understand everyone on the subject and everything is over now.
I've never said a gay couple won't be able to love a child, I just meant that a role will be missing in the child's life and everybody has to agree that both roles are really important.

[Sunny_01]

Ruth we all get passionate about things especially when they are close to our hearts. I am lucky enough to be friends with the most wonderful couple who happen to be gay. I would sooner trust the care of my children to them than to most other people that I know. They also hoped to adopt but because of health issues were not able to, but would have made the most amazing parents.

[Ruth]

Originally posted by Sunny_01
Ruth we all get passionate about things especially when they are close to our hearts. I am lucky enough to be friends with the most wonderful couple who happen to be gay. I would sooner trust the care of my children to them than to most other people that I know. They also hoped to adopt but because of health issues were not able to, but would have made the most amazing parents.

Thank you Sunny. I'm sorry that your friends weren't able to adopt - we need more prospective adoptive parents in this country with the care system in the state it's in.

Sunshine - again, I'm sorry for the way I spoke to you.

[Foebane100]

I don't see why not, but recently when two turned out to be paedophiles the social workers were to afraid to knock them back and launch an investigation in case they were seen as discriminating against gay people.
The PC monster rears it’s ugly head again.

[the_stillness]

Originally posted by sunshine30

I understand people can have their opinion and I respect that. I was for thr gay marriage, I did agree with that law, something which won't happen in France for exemple.
My view was harsh towards gay people ? So now we can't have an opinion about that, it's so forbidden, it's a subject you can't touch, but sorry I talk about it even if people won't like me, I work like that, sorry for them.

Good for gay people are heard more and more and I know that gay people are a big proportion of the British one but they aren't obligated to be harsh.

Well for your last comment it's quite strange, I'm not sure about 15, maybe it changed but as much as I know it's 16 and 3 months but I will ask.

Thanks the_stillness for respecting me and having a normal discussion on the topic, I can see not all of the members are closed-minded.

It is a touchy subject Sunshine and I couldn't agree more. I am sorry that you feel that the French Government will never change the law on that - I think that your assumption that the French Government will always feel this way, may be wrong? I am on guessing - but there is a lot of gay people in France and their voices will be heard also - but it may take time, like many things in law

You are entitled to your opinion and I respect that. You seem like a very nice and friendly member - 'from what I have read', so I treat you with equal respect. But I did notice that your opinions on this subject have hurt the feelings of some posters in this topic - but it will pass by, I am sure.

[BB8:(]

one word no

it is the child that suffers and people that want a child to suffer shouldn't be allowed to adopt

[the_stillness]

Originally posted by BB8
one word no

it is the child that suffers and people that want a child to suffer shouldn't be allowed to adopt

Not necessarily BB8 - it needs to be accepted and gay people who wish to adopt a child should be given the chance to do what they want. There are many bad straight parents and I can only assume that gay parents can be equally as good and overcome any problem which may arise.

If the child gets bullied at school, then it is the teachers who should deal with it - if they can't do that, then they are [bullies themselves] by letting it happen. Tackle that problem and gay people can have a chance at having a perfectly happy life with a child - which they deserve

[Red Moon]

Originally posted by the_stillness
If the child gets bullied at school, then it is the teachers who should deal with it - if they can't do that, then they are [bullies themselves] by letting it happen. Tackle that problem and gay people can have a chance at having a perfectly happy life with a child - which they deserve

The problem with Bullies is they get away with it. People defend them by blaming they actions on other people. While these type of people continue to defend the Bullies they can get away with anything.

You can see what I mean if you look though some of the posts about Jade Goody on this site. Some people are quick to blame others for what she did.