[Tom]

Originally Posted by Mrluvaluva

I prefer physical music formats myself. Whether it be CD or vinyl, but I do download too sometimes. And that's my opinion btw. Basically you are calling me a fool for paying for music. That's your opinion too. And what has watching TV online got to do with it? I pay my TV licence as I am sure you do, no?

TV license is only so you can watch BBC1-4, CBBC, CBeebies as well as the BBC radio stations and the website. If you're watching something over the internet from another country then thats illegal because its copyrighted and only intended for a specific country, and if its a show like Desperate Housewives that is shown in the UK, those who watch it early over the internet are costing Channel 4 money because the ratings will be lower, so they won't be able to charge as much for adverts. IMO its the same principle. The same goes for films, games, DVDs etc.

And yes, I do pay mine.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Tom

TV license is only so you can watch BBC1-4, CBBC, CBeebies as well as the BBC radio stations and the website. If you're watching something over the internet from another country then thats illegal because its copyrighted and only intended for a specific country, and if its a show like Desperate Housewives that is shown in the UK, those who watch it early over the internet are costing Channel 4 money because the ratings will be lower, so they won't be able to charge as much for adverts. IMO its the same principle. The same goes for films, games, DVDs etc.

And yes, I do pay mine.

No. It's not. Because certain people like buying albums but don't mind breaking the law to watch shows online. Equating the two is pointless when people hold them to different levels of opinion and importance.

[Mrluvaluva]

Originally Posted by Tom

TV license is only so you can watch BBC1-4, CBBC, CBeebies as well as the BBC radio stations and the website. If you're watching something over the internet from another country then thats illegal because its copyrighted and only intended for a specific country, and if its a show like Desperate Housewives that is shown in the UK, those who watch it early over the internet are costing Channel 4 money because the ratings will be lower, so they won't be able to charge as much for adverts. IMO its the same principle. The same goes for films, games, DVDs etc.

And yes, I do pay mine.

I only watch BBCi player very rarely. 4OD once or twice. Wanted to be sure what you meant by "watching TV online". TV licence lets me watch Channel 4 and 5 also I do believe. If I choose to watch freeview it also covers that.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by Judas Iscariot

No. It's not. Because certain people like buying albums but don't mind breaking the law to watch shows online. Equating the two is pointless when people hold them to different levels of opinion and importance.

Why is the principle of it any different? Either way its piracy and someone loses out for your own personal gain.

[Mrluvaluva]

It's like you're arguing with yourself Tom.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Tom

Why is the principle of it any different? Either way its piracy and someone loses out for your own personal gain.

Right, and some people choose not to care about that for TV shows, but buy albums because they like the artists, and because they have more of a vested interest in music than in TV shows.

Christ, how hard is it to understand? It's like you just want to keep on arguing no matter what.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by Judas Iscariot

Right, and some people choose not to care about that for TV shows, but buy albums because they like the artists, and because they have more of a vested interest in music than in TV shows.

Christ, how hard is it to understand? It's like you just want to keep on arguing no matter what.

I get that bit, but if you're going to tell other people not to illegally download on the grounds of piracy and it costing the industry, then what right do them people have to basically do the same but for TV? Obviously its not affecting the TV industry as much as it is with the music industry, but whether or not you have more of a vested interest in music, the bottom line is its still piracy and its still costing others.

Its EXACTLY the same no matter how you sugar coat it down to personal interests and preferences. Thats the bit you don't seem to be understanding.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Tom

I get that bit, but if you're going to tell other people not to illegally download

I don't tell people not to illegally download, do I?

Originally Posted by Tom

what right do them people have to basically do the same but for TV? .

Because, as I already explained, they care deeply for the music, but not the same for telly.

Originally Posted by Tom

Its EXACTLY the same no matter how you sugar coat it down to personal interests and preferences. Thats the bit you don't seem to be understanding.

The act itself is the same, yes, but some people care about one and not the other. Jesus. Fucking. Christ.

I'm not misunderstanding anything. Please stop assuming that I am.

The principals of both are the same. Downloading music illegally? Illegal. Downloading TV shows illegally? Illegal.

But some people care about the music and not the TV shows. Simple. It's not a contradiction in their ethics, because in their ethics TV simply does not matter as much to them as music.

Most people would eat fried chicken but not fried dog. The principal of killing an animal is the same, but people care about the dog. Bad comparison, but damnit I have to illustrate it somehow.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by Judas Iscariot

I don't tell people not to illegally download, do I?

Never said you did, it was 'you're' in the collective sense/in a hypothetical sense.

Because, as I already explained, they care deeply for the music, but not the same for telly.


The act itself is the same, yes, but some people care about one and not the other. Jesus. Fucking. Christ.

Its still the same principle

I'm not misunderstanding anything. Please stop assuming that I am.

I refer you to above.

The principals of both are the same. Downloading music illegally? Illegal. Downloading TV shows illegally? Illegal.

But some people care about the music and not the TV shows. Simple. It's not a contradiction in their ethics, because in their ethics TV simply does not matter as much to them as music.

It is a contradiction of their ethics, whether or not they care about TV its still exactly the same thing. What about the film industry? I bet some people who go on about legally downloading music have a few films in their torrent list.

Most people would eat fried chicken but not fried dog. The principal of killing an animal is the same, but people care about the dog. Bad comparison, but damnit I have to illustrate it somehow.

More like an appalling comparison purely just to try and demonstrate your own view and not show it in the bigger picture ... most people eat chicken, noone (here at least) eats dog. The equivalent in this argument is most people listening to music, but noone watching TV, when its quite the opposite for TV.

[Stu]

Yes, it's still the same thing, but they have an interest in one and not the other. Don't even bring principals into it, because not everyone cares. Let's just assume someone does not give a flying fuck either way. They want to invest in music. Not movies. Simple. Principal has got nothing to do with it. It's a redundant argument. When you started out you were not questioning anybodies principals because you clearly have none yourself because you happily download. You were wondering why someone would bother to buy music and multiple people told you.

They care about the music.

They don't care about the telly.

You can't bring principal into it because not everybody has the same principals. It's just pointless arguing it. Your creating a hypothetical person and criticizing him for downloading movies and not music in order to have something to argue with. It's pointless.

[Tom]

But its like buying something from one shop because you love the store, but would happily steal from somewhere else because you don't really care about that shop.

Principle has everything to do with it, its just redundant because you've decided it goes against what you're arguing against.

The bottom line is, its piracy.

and I wasn't questionning my own anyway, I was just wondering if anyone sees fit to illegally download when it suits them.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Tom

But its like buying something from one shop because you love the store, but would happily steal from somewhere else because you don't really care about that shop.

Principle has everything to do with it, its just redundant because you've decided it goes against what you're arguing against.

The bottom line is, its piracy.

and I wasn't questionning my own anyway, I was just wondering if anyone sees fit to illegally download when it suits them.

Of course it's piracy. Who exactly is denying that? Jesus H. Christ. Some people just like pirating movies and not music. Not because of an ethical contradiction but because they JUST. LIKE. BUYING. MUSIC.

I don't buy albums and download movies because I am a hypocrite. I just like buying albums. I'm not violating a principal because I don't care about the principals. I just. Want. To. Buy. Albums. I mean ... I download music too!

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Tom

TV license is only so you can watch BBC1-4, CBBC, CBeebies as well as the BBC radio stations and the website. If you're watching something over the internet from another country then thats illegal because its copyrighted and only intended for a specific country, and if its a show like Desperate Housewives that is shown in the UK, those who watch it early over the internet are costing Channel 4 money because the ratings will be lower, so they won't be able to charge as much for adverts. IMO its the same principle. The same goes for films, games, DVDs etc.

And yes, I do pay mine.

Ccccccrrrrraaaaapppppppp. Why dont people who claim something as fact actually check what they are stating?

The TV licence funds those, a TV licence allows you to have possession of any equipment, that includes mobile phones and computers, that can receive live TV it doesnt have to come to you through an aerial. Check your own TV licence, next time you get a reminder for it, check that too.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology...g-tv-computers

Whilst it may be next to impossible to enforce, its still technically an offence to watch any TV in the UK that is live streaming at the time of broadcast without a valid TV licence. That means on a mobile phone, on a computer via the internet, using a playstation or Xbox. For example, If you buy an Xbox for a location that is not registered as having a TV licence you will receive a licence demand.


From a recently issued Licence(my own)

TV is defined as television receiving equipment such as a TV set, computer mobile phone games console digital box or DVD/VHS recorder.

.... to watch or record any TV programmes as they are being shown on television. This includes watching or recording streamed services and satellite TV broadcast from outside of the UK. If you only watch on-demand services then you dont need a licence.

[Smithy]

I just wanted to know if you thought it was theft, i didnt want your whole friggin life story

Y'all ruined my thread

[Harry!]

Originally Posted by Smithy

I just wanted to know if you thought it was theft, i didnt want your whole friggin life story

Y'all ruined my thread

Smithy this is in serious debates not chat and games. Essays are common in this section.

[Smithy]

Originally Posted by Recylopse

Smithy this is in serious debates not chat and games. Essays are common in this section.

Yea, but id prefer if it was on topic

[Mrluvaluva]

Originally Posted by Smithy

Yea, but id prefer if it was on topic

I thought much of it pretty well was?

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Smithy

Yea, but id prefer if it was on topic

It is. Unless I'm missing something. We were having a serious debate about the ethics of downloading.

Unless you would rather we just threw pies at each other?

Because I wouldn't mind that.

[Smithy]

Originally Posted by Judas Iscariot

It is. Unless I'm missing something. We were having a serious debate about the ethics of downloading.

Unless you would rather we just threw pies at each other?

Because I wouldn't mind that.

omg, yea throwing pies would be great

but post a vid

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Smithy

omg, yea throwing pies would be great

but post a vid

Sorry mate didnt realise you simply wanted a straw poll and a video. I apologise from the heart of my bottom. Lets start again then eh? In answer to your question:

Yes I do.


Heres your vid

Youtube video

[Smithy]

Originally Posted by Shasown

Sorry mate didnt realise you simply wanted a straw poll and a video. I apologise from the heart of my bottom. Lets start again then eh? In answer to your question:

Yes I do.


Heres your vid

Youtube video

Sorry were you even involved in that ^?

[Shasown]

Nope, you said you wanted a vid, thats the first one i found on you tube, is it okay?

[Smithy]

Originally Posted by Shasown

Nope, you said you wanted a vid, thats the first one i found on you tube, is it okay?

No, i said i wanted a vid of stu throwing pies at people

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Smithy

No, i said i wanted a vid of stu throwing pies at people

Oh thats good then the vid I selected has a man making pies, or was that the next one in the series, can't remember, dont know if its Stu though, highly unlikely to be him though.

[hennessy]

I started buying CDs when they 1st came out and they were expensive, started to buy Mididisc but stopped when they died so carried on. Kept scratching had to buy again, the worse is when I moved (about 3 times) and had to carry 100's of dvds and cd around.
I thought eff that, buy a terabyte and carry it around with ease.
plus the collection I want of movies, music, books and comics would cost a small fortune so I torrent like a mad man.