[Jack_]

Originally Posted by The Mockinator

Hitler is a bit more evil than Thatcher though Jack lol.

Although I see your point.

I know that, I'm just making the point that you don't have to have lived in an era to dislike what a particular political figure did. I've seen a couple of posts in that other thread over the last few days which have almost suggested people should move on and stop blaming her for their lives, which to me, is utterly ridiculous because the effects of her polices and ideology is still prevalent today. I said it in the thread - Thatcher may have died but Thatcherism lives on, and there's no real cause for celebration.

Originally Posted by JH95

But for people my/your age to not be around during that time and to dislike her politics (which is fine) is one thing, buying a song (which mocks her death) because you didn't like her politics (not refering to you personally here Jack) despite not being around then is just ridiculous.

But the 'it's ridiculous' statement is just an opinion as I said to Ninastar (so I won't go over it all again ), you have to understand the flip side and how this woman affected so many people's lives and the lives of so many people's parents and how some people are just totally appalled by what she carried out, and how to some of those people, this will not be a disgusting campaign at all - it's just a matter of opinion, there is no definitive answer.

[Mystic Mock]

Well I wasn't around at her time but by what I've heard about Margaret Thatcher off my parents, and research off the Internet, I personally don't like her views as I thought that she was highly racist, and that she treated the working class like Dogs, plus covering up the Hillsborough disaster is another black mark.

[Jake.]

People were able to discuss their negative opinions of her since 1980 odd, god knows why they still can't without this disgusting campaign

[Jake.]

Originally Posted by Jack_

But the 'it's ridiculous' statement is just an opinion as I said to Ninastar (so I won't go over it all again ), you have to understand the flip side and how this woman affected so many people's lives and the lives of so many people's parents and how some people are just totally appalled by what she carried out, and how to some of those people, this will not be a disgusting campaign at all - it's just a matter of opinion, there is no definitive answer.

So the way to argue with this 'appalling' behaviour is to react with appalling behaviour?

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by JH95

It's not really though Mock, the song is being used as a parody as a womans death.

I know, but I'd rather that than potentially more rioting if they don't even get heard on TV for the week.

[Brother Leon]

The song should be played anyway. The BBC's job is to play the top 10. Them playing it isn't anymore of an insult or slap in the face than her supporters trying to force Liverpool Supporters to have a silence for her over the weekend.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Jack_

But the 'it's ridiculous' statement is just an opinion as I said to Ninastar (so I won't go over it all again ), you have to understand the flip side and how this woman affected so many people's lives and the lives of so many people's parents and how some people are just totally appalled by what she carried out, and how to some of those people, this will not be a disgusting campaign at all - it's just a matter of opinion, there is no definitive answer.

Depends from which perspective from which you look at it. It is not open for discussion that those who knew her must be suffering enough right now without these celebrations and that song topping the charts and it certainly isn't a matter of opinion that those grieving should be shown respect.

[Jake.]

Also, all of this destroying town shops and burning things over the last few days by her 'haters', some of whom looked far too young to be around then and no doubt heard things from their parents.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Brother Leon

The song should be played anyway. The BBC's job is to play the top 10. Them playing it isn't anymore of an insult or slap in the face than her supporters trying to force Liverpool Supporters to have a silence for her over the weekend.

I live in the poxy city and yet here am I...and I don't even like her policies.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Zee

As you said, they don't always play the forty songs in the countdown, and considering the length of the song they may well just omit it anyway and spend less than a minute explaining the context of its chart placing for that week. I agree that it's a chart show, it should play the chart, but as this is a politically sensitive issue, they'll be criticised for playing it and they'll be criticised for not playing it, so I think whatever transpires they'll try and give a very balanced view - to simply not play it or to simply play it, either way without an explanation, would be highly inflammatory.

I'm not sure if that's changed though now, but the top 10 is always played in full ever since they started the whole streaming thing, and as this looks likely to chart inside the top 10, there really isn't any reason why it shouldn't be played - if it is outside the top 10 and the rest of the chart still isn't always played, there'll be more leeway. I do agree the context of its charting should be explained though, the link arista posted which suggests that's what they'll be doing seems a fair way to solve this IMO. You reflect the sales and you inform the listeners, that lives up to the BBC's mantra perfectly.

Originally Posted by Ammi

..honestly Jack, you really can't equate Margaret Thatcher with Hitler..but on the subject of WW2..that was a nation joined together and united in war and their losses and fears...what's happening now is a nation united in hatred..and people have a right to feel that if they want to and feel very passionately about it and show those feelings...but the people who don't feel the same, because she's dead and don't see the point in this, will feel just as passionately that this whole thing and everything on the internet etc is distasteful....

I'm not comparing her to Hitler, I need to make that clear, I'm just making the point that if people will discuss him when they weren't around at the time, people can do the same towards Thatcher...that's all I was trying to say.

I absolutely agree with the rest of what you've said though, people are entitled to find this disgusting and people are entitled to feel disgusted at what she did to their lives and their communities, my original point was just simply that this debate should happen outside of the BBC and they should have no input into this whatsoever other than to play the song as that's what the point of the chart show is, explain a bit of the context behind it in a balanced and impartial manner, and move on. It's not up to them to be saying 'well this is disgusting so we aren't playing it'.

[Jake.]

Originally Posted by Jack_

you have to understand the flip side and how this woman affected so many people's lives and the lives of so many people's parents and how some people are just totally appalled by what she carried out

And I fully understand this, except what I don't understand is how some stupid campaign being done for a laugh is going to solve anything. Because it isn't.

[Brother Leon]

Originally Posted by Redway

I live in the poxy city and yet here am I...and I don't even like her policies.

I am 99% sure every Liverpool fan and especially the Hillsborough families would rather spit on her grave than have a minute silence for her..Does that mean anything to the "She should be honoured countrywide" brigade? No. The song is disrespectful to her, but if it's charted it's charted and should be played. For all the people who may like like her there are people who don't. Why should they be muted?

[Ammi]

..I sometimes think that the public would be happy if they burned her body on a public funeral pyre in the streets..I thought we'd come a long way from the angry mob and pitchforks...this song should be played because it is number 1 but the whole thing, for me is extremely distasteful...these things only hurt her children, who were very young when she was in power and are blameless of anything, people attribute to her..and her grandchildren, who weren't even born...she herself, will not be effected by this at all...

..this is the last post I will make about Margaret Thatcher's death because I don't see anything positive in a nation joined in hatred....

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Brother Leon

I am 99% sure every Liverpool fan and especially the Hillsborough families would rather spit on her grave than have a minute silence for her..

You shouldn't tar everyone under the same brush in that case...people think differently.

[Jake.]

The reason I think it should be stopped/muted is because it isn't getting anybody anywhere. People who like her can discuss with others why they like her. The exact same for people who hate her. Why should everybody have to fall under this distasteful, silly campaign? As Ammi said, people close to her will be having a hard time mourning, and to hear/see things like this everywhere isn't going to help them in any way. People can say 'it's fine because she was an evil cow', which is a fine opinion, but the keyword there being was. It's not going to affect her, it's going to affect her loved ones.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by JH95

So the way to argue with this 'appalling' behaviour is to react with appalling behaviour?

But whether or not this is appalling behaviour or not is a matter of opinion, that's the point I'm trying to make whether her policies were appalling or not is also a matter of opinion, but there's no definitive answer to this as I explained to Ninastar

The bottom line of my argument is that these debates should happen outside of the BBC, they exist merely to reflect what is going on outside in the real world - and if a song has reached the top 10 in the chart, by rights of the point of the chart show, Radio 1 should play it. It's not up to them to be taking any side on any issue.

Originally Posted by Redway

Depends from which perspective from which you look at it. It is not open for discussion that those who knew her must be suffering enough right now without these celebrations and that song topping the charts and it certainly isn't a matter of opinion that those grieving should be shown respect.

I disagree I'm afraid, and not because I want to disrespect her family members, I paid my respects to them in the original thread, but I really, personally, do not see how the song being played will affect them either way. They obviously must be aware of the campaign by now and I don't think it being played in a chart show where, like it or loathe it - it has actually charted, is going to change anything. And of course I expect they'll have heard much, much worse things about their mother throughout her life, they knew she was a divisive figure and she knew that herself anyway (and I don't think she'd have given one toss about this whole thing) so I don't think the debate on whether Radio 1 should play this is really going to affect them that much - I'm sure the funeral and supporting each other is much higher on their lists right now, I think they'll have had decades to prepare for this kind of reaction.

[Brother Leon]

Originally Posted by Redway

You shouldn't tar everyone under the same brush in that case...people think differently.

Pretty sure you support Chelsea anyway...you living in Liverpool has nothing to do with how they view her..

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Brother Leon

Pretty sure you support Chelsea anyway...you living in Liverpool has nothing to do with how they view her..

Unless you've been round the whole city and interviewed every single Liverpool supporter, you can't really speak for masses...

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by JH95

And I fully understand this, except what I don't understand is how some stupid campaign being done for a laugh is going to solve anything. Because it isn't.

Well that's another discussion entirely and not one I really have an opinion on to be quite honest (like I said I'm indifferent on the whole issue, just am certain that the BBC should not involve itself in this at all by taking a stance and not playing it). My point was just about the BBC and that whether or not this is 'disgusting' is a matter of opinion, it's not a fact either way.

[Jake.]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Well that's another discussion entirely and not one I really have an opinion on to be quite honest (like I said I'm indifferent on the whole issue, just am certain that the BBC should not involve itself in this at all by taking a stance and not playing it). My point was just about the BBC and that whether or not this is 'disgusting' is a matter of opinion, it's not a fact either way.

Oh no I know what you mean about the BBC and how they should play the song my points are more about how, in my opinion, this pathetic attempt at a 'campaign' shouldn't be here in the first place... but as you said, it's a bit of a different discussion.

[Jack_]

Oh, also...on the subject of 'riots', I'd like to make the point that those 'riots' (which could of course begin as protests but turn into riots due to...ahem...the police force, but be reported as 'riots'), if they do happen next week, will more than likely happen because of the issues surrounding this tax-payer funded funeral she's receiving...not because she's dead. That whole issue is another debate entirely (which is being had elsewhere) but it's adding insult to injury to people and communities who were crushed by her policies, so I'd understand it if they happened and for me it'd be a case of 'well, they (the government) got what's coming to them' by funding it that way.

[Me. I Am Salman]

omg if riots happen next week, I go past St Pauls Cathedral on my way to college

[Jack_]

If there's any peaceful demonstrations going on I'm sure the police will bring out their old friend kettling and turn it into something much more than that which'll be completely taken out of context in its reporting and made out that the people demonstrating instigated it. But we'll see.

[Locke.]

Originally Posted by Redway

Unless you've been round the whole city and interviewed every single Liverpool supporter, you can't really speak for masses...

99.99% of Liverpool fans hate her, and the ones that don't need to have a word with themselves

[Ninastar]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I sometimes think that the public would be happy if they burned her body on a public funeral pyre in the streets..I thought we'd come a long way from the angry mob and pitchforks...this song should be played because it is number 1 but the whole thing, for me is extremely distasteful...these things only hurt her children, who were very young when she was in power and are blameless of anything, people attribute to her..and her grandchildren, who weren't even born...she herself, will not be effected by this at all...

..this is the last post I will make about Margaret Thatcher's death because I don't see anything positive in a nation joined in hatred....

thank you, i wish i had a way with words like you