[DanaC]

Originally Posted by Livia

It always makes me smile when people who want other people to be respected for who they are rather than what colour they are or where they come from, are referred to as the "PC Brigade".

*smiles* well said.

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by DanaC

That's a very narrow definition of racism. How about a racist outlook that accepts that black people can be good at sports, but also thinks they are lazy and need extra motivation because of it, or that they are excellent runners, but you wouldn't want one marrying your daughter etc. etc.

Even a racist employer, presented with a white candidate with no qualification for the job and a black candidate with all the right qualifications of the job, might give that job to the black candidate. Now, if a slightly underqualified white candidate were up against that perfectly qualified black candidate, that might be a different story.

I have known people who subscribe absolutely to the tenets of the National Front, daubed 'Go Home' and swastikas on the houses of pakistanis yet have been perfectly friendly with some local pakistani lads.

Racism (all isms) is multilayered.

It is entirely possible for someone who is racist to also allow for some qualities/individual talents in the people against whom they are prejudiced. Often framed in a fairly racist way (all blacks are fast runners, virile/Indian workers who are quiet and hardworking, because in their eyes those people are naturally given to servility etc.).

It's also possible for people to hold two sets of entirely contradictory views about the same set of people. Or have vastly different views of pakistanis and Indians, black people and the Chinese etc etc.

Firstly I didn't define racism, I defined racism at its purist and I've used that term a few times. Making a silly comment is not pure/real racism pure/real racism involves some kind of power.

You're talking more about stereotyping in this post. Stereotyping/profiling is not real/pure racism cus there is no power involved and is much more prevalent that pure racism.

[CaudleHalbard]

Even my best mate feels uncomfortable using the word black - he's from a small village in Hampshire where black people are noticeable by their absence. They have not yet caught up with what words are nowadays ok or not ok !

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by EyeballPaul

It happened.A local council in some town(can't remember where),Wanted shops to take down Merry Christmas banners incase Muslims were offended.This was political correctness gone well overboard.

Some town = Urban Legend

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Because they offended the muslims? Or because some individual official decided it might offend them?

if indeed it even happened.

Doorstepping in the run up elections I lost count of the times people told me that 'they can't even put Christmas decorations up in Bradford now!'...utter crap: I shop there every year and you can't ****ing move for Christmas nativity scenes and giant santas.

Or the evergreen claim that 'They can't even put the St George's flag up in the TownHall on St Georges Day!' - again utter bollocks. We had a meeting that very year ion St George's day and there was a flag the size of a boat sail draped on Hall wall.

You can scoff at him all you want but when I was an apprentice for A local Council I got the chance to design a flower bed at the entrance of a Central Park. Because of the World Cup I decided on a St. George's Cross and we all agreed. 4 days later I was told to scrap that idea because the suits decided it would cause division within the towns community.

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

Firstly I didn't define racism, I defined racism at its purist and I've used that term a few times. Making a silly comment is not pure/real racism pure/real racism involves some kind of power.

You're talking more about stereotyping in this post. Stereotyping/profiling is not real/pure racism cus there is no power involved and is much more prevalent that pure racism.

The employer in my scenario had power.


Incidentally:

The definition of racism in Collins dictionary—

n
1. the belief that races have distinctive cultural characteristics determined by hereditary factors and that this endows some races with an intrinsic superiority over others
2. abusive or aggressive behaviour towards members of another race on the basis of such a belief

[Northern Monkey]

[QUOTE=DanaC;6323423]Because they offended the muslims? Or because some individual official decided it might offend them?

This is what i'm saying!I'm not saying any Muslims were offended by Christmas banners,I'm saying some PC council idiot decided that Christmas banners could offend.

[MrWong]

Originally Posted by EyeballPaul

It happened.A local council in some town(can't remember where),Wanted shops to take down Merry Christmas banners incase Muslims were offended.This was political correctness gone well overboard.

Far more likely that it was a suggestion made by one person that was ignored, rather than an entire council.

[Napoleon_Solo.]

Originally Posted by CaudleHalbard

Even my best mate feels uncomfortable using the word black - he's from a small village in Hampshire where black people are noticeable by their absence. They have not yet caught up with what words are nowadays ok or not ok !

I don't know of any people, (apart from black.) that are labelled purely because of their colour of skin, having said that, I don't know of any black person being described as black actually being offended by the term...It all depends on what context it is being used.
Most people would like to be judged as the person they are and not what skin colour they happen to have.

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by DanaC

The employer in my scenario had power.


Incidentally:

The definition of racism in Collins dictionary—

The employer was guilty of profiling.

EDIT: In your example you say an employer might given the job to black employer. No a racist employer would NOT give the job to a black person. So in your example the boss is not racist ion that respect but may well be racist in other ways.

[DanaC]

[QUOTE=EyeballPaul;6323437]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Because they offended the muslims? Or because some individual official decided it might offend them?

This is what i'm saying!I'm not saying any Muslims were offended by Christmas banners,I'm saying some PC council idiot decided that Christmas banners could offend.

By far the most common form of 'pc' action or intent in councils is a genuine attempt to promote community cohesion and avoid causing offence and alienation of minorities within their borough. This very rarely involves the kind of nonsense you are referring to.

That's like deciding that, because a bloke in the Parking Dept. used the work '****' councils across the land are racist organisations.

We don't then all get into a huff about the nazi brigades.

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by Napoleon_Solo.

I don't know of any people, (apart from black.) that are labelled purely because of their colour of skin, having said that, I don't know of any black person being described as black actually being offended by the term...It all depends on what context it is being used.
Most people would like to be judged as the person they are and not what skin colour they happen to have.

Absolutely. I think often Implying offence can be as dangerous as real offence at times.


This only happened to me once so I can't claim racial prejudice or anything but I was called a white milky bar bastard by someone of Asian lineage and it was the most hilarious thing I ever heard. I was far from offended.

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

The employer was guilty of profiling.

Based on race or colour and in the context of him having power over that person in terms of a hiring decision.

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Based on race or colour and in the context of him having power over that person in terms of a hiring decision.

A racist employer would not even consider a black applicant.

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by Simple Minds

Absolutely. I think often Implying offence can be as dangerous as real offence at times.


This only happened to me once so I can't claim racial prejudice or anything but I was called a white milky bar bastard by someone of Asian lineage and it was the most hilarious thing I ever heard. I was far from offended.

There is not the same historical legacy involved. Nor do we live in a current world in which British Asians predominately have economic and political power over white British.

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

A racist employer would not even consider a black applicant.

Some racist employers wouldn't. You could even say many. But people are complicated creatures. If racist employers would never even consider a black person for a job, then there would never have been a situation in which black employees were subjected to racism by their employers.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Napoleon_Solo.

I don't know of any people, (apart from black.) that are labelled purely because of their colour of skin, having said that, I don't know of any black person being described as black actually being offended by the term...It all depends on what context it is being used.
Most people would like to be judged as the person they are and not what skin colour they happen to have.

Yeah, like obviously I'm not offended if someone calls me Irish, I am Irish, but if someone says "You stupid Irish bitch" it's seems to say that being Irish is part of the insult

[Northern Monkey]

Me and an Asian lad at school always used to call each other racist names as a joke and laughed about it.No offence was taken on either side.

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by DanaC

There is not the same historical legacy involved. Nor do we live in a current world in which British Asians predominately have economic and political power over white British.

Ah let's wheel out that one. If there's 3 Asians and just me they have all the power they want over me if they choose to assault me, which fortunately they didn't. British Colonial history certainly wasn't in any of our minds at that time.

[DanaC]

Not saying you wuoldn't feel scared, or at risk or insulted. But 'white' as an insult doesn't carry much weight in a place where 'white' is the default colour and where 'white' is associated primarily with cultural power and dominance rather than cultural trauma and oppression.


Bit like a bloke saying' I was called a slut once, it didn't offend me!'

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Not saying you wuoldn't feel scared, or at risk or insulted. But 'white' as an insult doesn't carry much weight in a place where 'white' is the default colour and where 'white' is associated primarily with cultural power and dominance rather than cultural trauma and oppression.

Racism works both ways.You can't say it's one rule for one and not for another.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

To a racist , homophobe, sexist etc. Nothing matters more than their stupid little prejudice. I have an uncle who is a very religious 7th day Adventist fool and as soon as he hears the word gay he almost shuts down. I'm not joking. He such a homophobe that nothing else matters to him. Trust me. If Ron was a true racist he most definitely would NOT have played black players, no matter how good they were and no matter how sh*t the white players were. This happened in Basketball in the 1950's when Red Auerbach became coach of the Celtics and had to endure all the racism that came with him playing black players.

Originally Posted by Brother Leon

What he said was disgusting and should not be forgotten or forgiven. What he has done for black footballers though also should not be forgotten. Just a shame it was outdone by a severe comment.



If he was truly racist, he would not Of played the players regardless of their quality due to their skin colour though.

..hmm, ok I understand what you're both saying and this is the main reason why I wanted to make the thread, to get other people's opinions because I don't know an awful lot about him other than that one comment which was indeed disgusting but for me made worse by the fact that he didn't appear to be sorry about it when I saw him on Wife Swap...I do see that the balance of positive things he did should define him as well though and I understand more what they were and maybe prejudices he himself faced for his decisions..thank you for your intelligent opinions...

[DanaC]

I didn't say it wasn't racist.

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Not saying you wuoldn't feel scared, or at risk or insulted. But 'white' as an insult doesn't carry much weight in a place where 'white' is the default colour and where 'white' is associated primarily with cultural power and dominance rather than cultural trauma and oppression.


Bit like a bloke saying' I was called a slut once, it didn't offend me!'

Course it wouldn't insult me, I am not a woman.


So what your saying is I have to live in a country where I am in a minority to be a victim of racism?

[Kyle]

I'm getting the feeling here Dana and I don't mean to jump the gun so I apologise in advance but me being a white, heterosexual male adult aged 24 means that I am excluded from being offended by anything?