[Jezzy]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

People still don't hate gingers though - it is stupid, but there is a huge difference between our racial and homophobic past, and some stupid, yet non-malicious mockery.

I suppose I can say that though, because one of my best friends is a ginger.

Either way....and the importance is defined by society, no matter whether it's gay, black, ginger, speccy four eyes....it's still an irrational hatred. And it's not non-violent either. My daughter was beaten up for being ginger, to the extent she dyed her hair for years.

Originally Posted by Jezzy

Either way....and the importance is defined by society, no matter whether it's gay, black, ginger, speccy four eyes....it's still an irrational hatred.

I don't even think it's a hatred, and that's why it's simply not comparable in my eyes.

I am a carrier of the ginger gene myself, so I may well have ginger children some day, and I may well see things differently in that instance. I wouldn't change my view on the severity of the issues being compared.

[courses]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

People still don't hate gingers though - it is stupid, but there is a huge difference between our racial and homophobic past, and some stupid, yet non-malicious mockery.

I suppose I can say that though, because one of my best friends is a ginger.

I can assure you I have received a lot of hate and mockery ain't that fun. I understand the distinction you're making between homophobia's past and gingerism's(?) past, but the point was simply to show how silly the whole prejudice thing is. We're all human beings after all.

[Jezzy]

Originally Posted by courses

I can assure you I have received a lot of hate and mockery ain't that fun. I understand the distinction you're making between homophobia's past and gingerism's(?) past, but the point was simply to show how silly the whole prejudice thing is. We're all human beings after all.

And we are all wonderful, unique human beings. We just have to learn not to be indoctrinated.

Originally Posted by courses

I can assure you I have received a lot of hate and mockery ain't that fun. I understand the distinction you're making between homophobia's past and gingerism's(?) past, but the point was simply to show how silly the whole prejudice thing is. We're all human beings after all.

I don't think anyone said that either hate or mockery was particularly fun. I completely agree with you that prejudice is silly, but I don't believe childish mockery of ginger people is actually prejudice.

Ginger people have never been enslaved, they have never had basic human rights stripped away from them, they have never been made to wear a star of David, they have never been sent to prison, they have never been abused and mentally tortured by church doctrine for centuries either.

That's the difference. What ginger people have to go through in school is the same as fat people. That doesn't make it right, but it's a completely different scenario to having your human rights stripped away.

[Jezzy]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

I don't think anyone said that either hate or mockery was particularly fun. I completely agree with you that prejudice is silly, but I don't believe childish mockery of ginger people is actually prejudice.

Ginger people have never been enslaved, they have never had basic human rights stripped away from them, they have never been made to wear a star of David, they have never been sent to prison, they have never been abused and mentally tortured by church doctrine for centuries either.

That's the difference. What ginger people have to go through in school is the same as fat people. That doesn't make it right, but it's a completely different scenario to having your human rights stripped away.

I get you completely on the human rights point, but surely that is only because these have become big political issues. Does that make any "lesser" hatreds any less? And you, Jesus, being a Jew, as you are....the whole discussion should be about societal constructs, and not is what is "right" and what is "wrong". All prejudicial hatred is wrong.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

People still don't hate gingers though - it is stupid, but there is a huge difference between our racial and homophobic past, and some stupid, yet non-malicious mockery.

I suppose I can say that though, because one of my best friends is a ginger.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Josiah.

Okay, I really am offended by some of the comments. Please stop arguing before I bring Josy in to close this thread.

OOOOOOOOO Get her !!

[Jezzy]

Josiah, you are a mere prophet. The only person that can close this thread is Jesus (or maybe his daddy)

[Niamh.]

You English seem to be more ginger haters than the rest of the world though, no one ever got picked on when i was in school for being ginger

[Jezzy]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

You English seem to be more ginger haters than the rest of the world though, no one ever got picked on when i was in school for being ginger

Haha, love you Niamh...I should have moved to Scotland or Ireland immediately I had her :P

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Jezzy

Haha, love you Niamh...I should have moved to Scotland or Ireland immediately I had her :P

lol you should have done, her gingerness would have been embrassed and celebrated

[Tom4784]

The difference between ginger people and gay people is that ginger people, unless they're gay, has the same rights as everyone else while gay people don't. Also I haven't seen anyone bully someone else for the colour of their hair since primary school, Homophobia is present in all walks of life.

You can't compare the two.

[Jezzy]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

The difference between ginger people and gay people is that ginger people, unless they're gay, has the same rights as everyone else while gay people don't. Also I haven't seen anyone bully someone else for the colour of their hair since primary school, Homophobia is present in all walks of life.

You can't compare the two.

Irrational hatred for someone's differences. You guys need to get off with the primary school thing, it goes on a lot longer than that. You just haven't experienced it.

Ginger people smell, ginger people are violent, ginger people are below the rung. That's how my daughter has experienced it.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Jezzy

Irrational hatred for someone's differences. You guys need to get off with the primary school thing, it goes on a lot longer than that. You just haven't experienced it.

Ginger people smell, ginger people are violent, ginger people are below the rung. That's how my daughter has experienced it.

It's an insult to compare the two, If I saw an adult mocking someone else for having ginger hair I'd think them too ridiculous to take it seriously. It's just not in the same league. I got a lot of jibes at school because I wore glasses but I wouldn't compare childish remarks to homophobia.

Like I said before, which you conveniently ignored because you probably had no argument against it, your daughter regardless of her hair colour will never face anything close to the same struggles a gay person would because ginger people aren't treated like second class citizens by their own government. Being Ginger has never been persecuted by law. Being Ginger doesn't mean you can't marry someone else, Adoption isn't made any more difficult because you're ginger ETC.

Just look at all the different countries in the world that don't have equal rights for gay people, how many countries do you think persecute people for having ginger hair?

[Jezzy]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

It's an insult to compare the two, If I saw an adult mocking someone else for having ginger hair I'd think them too ridiculous to take it seriously. It's just not in the same league. I got a lot of jibes at school because I wore glasses but I wouldn't compare childish remarks to homophobia.

Like I said before, which you conveniently ignored because you probably had no argument against it, your daughter regardless of her hair colour will never face anything close to the same struggles a gay person would because ginger people aren't treated like second class citizens by their own government. Being Ginger has never been persecuted by law. Being Ginger doesn't mean you can't marry someone else, Adoption isn't made any more difficult because you're ginger ETC.

Just look at all the different countries in the world that don't have equal rights for gay people, how many countries do you think persecute people for having ginger hair?

I'm not conveniently ignoring anything, I am just trying to show the arbitrary nature of prejudice. Prejudice happens because of the mores of society. In ancient Greek and Persian times (I am a Classicist) homosexuality was the norm, and in warriors, celebrated. Amongst the Spartans you were not classed as a warrior unless you *********d men.

What I AM trying to say is that social mores are dictated by the climate of society you live in. A hundred years ago, and in a different place, it would be the norm. Who can judge a norm?

Just because there are a lot of people stirring up what is right and wrong does not make their cause any more real or important. Why are Taliban beliefs wrong? Because you have been brought up in a secular society. So have I. I am not saying they are right.

Why would you feel that ginges or speccys or goths (recent goth hate killing) don't have the same right to any protections that gays have? As always, just curious.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

The difference between ginger people and gay people is that ginger people, unless they're gay, has the same rights as everyone else while gay people don't. Also I haven't seen anyone bully someone else for the colour of their hair since primary school, Homophobia is present in all walks of life.

You can't compare the two.

What rights are gay people lacking in ?

[Jezzy]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

What rights are gay people lacking in ?

Hoo-*********g rah.

[daniel-lewis-1985]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

What rights are gay people lacking in ?

This is what I meant when I said you have no knowledge of the gay community Evander was talking about therefore a very handsome gay man like myself finds it hard to take you seriously.

Some examples for you

- same-sex marriage will come into effect in England and Wales in mid-2014 ITS STILL NOT LEGAL ()

-Gay people were not allowed to apply for adopting a child until 2001 meaning the government thought a child being brought up by a gay couple would be worse than putting a child into care or foster homes

-I think it wasn't until roughly 2000 that gay people were allowed to serve in the military openly people like you and Evander don't understand the struggles gay people do actually face and how much they have had to fight to get the same right

This is why the Evander comments were met with such outrage.

Its only in the last 15 years or so that gay couples have finally been recognised as in love and have had their relationships recognised by a country that they love.

God I sound so gay but its true lol.

There are many gay conversion camps though that he would love us to attend aka cults! How does singing in a forest make you straight? If anything it just makes you feel like Bambi.

[Jezzy]

Originally Posted by daniel-lewis-1985

This is what I meant by commenting on a thread without any knowledge of the community Evander was talking about.

Ok so...

- same-sex marriage will come into effect in England and Wales in mid-2014 ()

Gay people were not allowed to apply for adopting a child until 2001 meaning the government thought a child being brought up by a gay couple would be worse than putting a child into care or foster homes l

I think it wasn't until roughly 2000 that gay people were allowed to serve in the military openly people like you and Evander don't understand the struggles gay people do actually face and how much they have had to fight to get the same right

This is why the Evander comments were met with such outrage.

You are talking 13 years ago. Why is marriage any different than a civil partnership? I honestly do want to know this. Marriage as a word definition, as gay is, is not something that encompasses same sex unions. Many priests / vicars will happily marry gay couples within the church. Why can there not be a different word for it? Yes, make your union permanent and blessed. Does it make a difference what word you call it by? Let's do Romeo and Juliet : "A Rose by any other name would smell as sweet." It's not marriage. The bible says marriage is a union between man and woman. It doesn't say a gay union is wrong, just that maybe there should be another word?

[daniel-lewis-1985]

Originally Posted by Jezzy

You are talking 13 years ago. Why is marriage any different than a civil partnership? I honestly do want to know this. Marriage as a word definition, as gay is, is not something that encompasses same sex unions. Many priests / vicars will happily marry gay couples within the church. Why can there not be a different word for it? Yes, make your union permanent and blessed. Does it make a difference what word you call it by? Let's do Romeo and Juliet : "A Rose by any other name would smell as sweet." It's not marriage. The bible says marriage is a union between man and woman. It doesn't say a gay union is wrong, just that maybe there should be another word?

They cant MARRY us its not legal.

The Bible says "Maybe there should just be another word?" that's hilarious. You say im only talking 13 years ago but that's the thing its ONLY 13 YEARS. That's such a long time for gay people to get any positive recognition for the country they live in and some that fight for in the armed forces.

If I wanted to marry my boyfriend tomorrow I couldn't because its illegal for me to do so. Is that right?

If you don't know the difference between a marriage and a civil partnership I will refer you to google.

[Z]

Originally Posted by Jezzy

You are talking 13 years ago. Why is marriage any different than a civil partnership? I honestly do want to know this. Marriage as a word definition, as gay is, is not something that encompasses same sex unions. Many priests / vicars will happily marry gay couples within the church. Why can there not be a different word for it? Yes, make your union permanent and blessed. Does it make a difference what word you call it by? Let's do Romeo and Juliet : "A Rose by any other name would smell as sweet." It's not marriage. The bible says marriage is a union between man and woman. It doesn't say a gay union is wrong, just that maybe there should be another word?

I think civil partnerships don't cover certain legal issues that marriage does, like if one partner dies, the civil partner's rights regarding their partner in the event of death etc, not really too sure on the specifics though!

[Jezzy]

Why is it any different? Please, do explain to me, why hating gays is any different to hating fatties or gingers. When my daughter is beaten for being ginger, I can't see the difference.

I don't hate anyone except ignorants :P

[Z]

Originally Posted by Jezzy

Why is it any different? Please, do explain to me, why hating gays is any different to hating fatties or gingers. When my daughter is beaten for being ginger, I can't see the difference.

I don't hate anyone except ignorants :P

I completely get the point you're making and it's valid in many ways but the difference is that you're not refused to right to get married or start a family if you're ginger, you aren't jailed for being ginger or having your rights taken away from you for being ginger (which is happening in many countries around the world)... children want to belong and make fun of those who are noticeably different in order to validate their fitting in with the rest. That's why camp kids, ginger kids, fat kids, kids with glasses... all get picked on. People get picked on for a variety of reasons and it can affect their adult life significantly if the bullying was prolonged... but inherently, society isn't against being ginger or needing glasses because people recognise that those are things that people cannot help, they are born with ginger hair; their eyesight is out of their control... people are not so forgiving with weight problems because you can control your weight; but blame will often be spread between an individual, their parents (if we're still talking about children), personal circumstances (e.g. he's put on weight because he's grieving, something like that)... but there are no such defenses for homosexuality in our society. Some people believe that homosexuality is a choice. Some people believe homosexuality is immoral. That is the difference.

Originally Posted by Jezzy

Why is it any different? Please, do explain to me, why hating gays is any different to hating fatties or gingers. When my daughter is beaten for being ginger, I can't see the difference.

I don't hate anyone except ignorants :P

Because people don't hate gingers or fatties. I can't comment on your daughters situation because it would be wrong of me, and it's your life, but I've never heard of anyone ever being beaten for being ginger. I just haven't.

It's not something that even begins to make sense to me.