[Alf]

Pest control often use dogs, should that be stopped?

They kill rabbits, hares and foxes.

[ebandit]

Originally Posted by Alf

Pest control often use dogs, should that be stopped?

They kill rabbits, hares and foxes.

do they? that would be 'hunting with dogs' and illegal under current

legislation

MarkL

[Alf]

Originally Posted by ebandit

do they? that would be 'hunting with dogs' and illegal under current

legislation

MarkL

Pretty sure they use guns too. Or I may have been watching too much Saxondale.

[Kizzy]

There is an ex hunt rescue that re-homes foxhounds, that suggests they make ok pets doesn't it?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

There is an ex hunt rescue that re-homes foxhounds, that suggests they make ok pets doesn't it?

I would imagine they'd have to placed carefully though if they lived with a pack in kennels. They wouldnt have been sovialised like tbe average dog

[DemolitionRed]

Fox hounds are used in drag hunting and because they follow a strong scent, they rarely veer off course.

They can make good pets. I know a guy who rescued one and that dogs fitted in fine.

[thesheriff443]

Small group of anti fox hunt protesters today in maidenhead town centre, Teresa mays constituency

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

Small group of anti fox hunt protesters today in maidenhead town centre, Teresa mays constituency

She won't care one jot, she is likely even to hold votes from people usually against this barbarism.
So why should she concern herself with a few protesters.

After all she called this election because she was irritated with any opposition to brexit.
Foxes have no chance,she sees them as vermin with no right to life even in the countryside.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Thought I'd post seeing as this was being discussed yesterday. Looks like Joey's been proven right (as usual)...took less than 24 hours!

Clip here:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7726506.html

And here's a few other right-wing sources to stop the inevitable 'oh, that lefty paper would say that!'. Keeps everyone happy

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-13-years.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...-conservative/

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/352050...eral-election/

And you assume most tories are FOR hunting. I would disagree as most tories are not upper-class toffs. You are living in the past.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

And you assume most tories are FOR hunting. I would disagree as most tories are not upper-class toffs. You are living in the past.

This is true, plus people from ALL the parties partake in the 'sport' and none of the other leaders of the parties are poor either,people who think Tories are all rich are deluded,they are no different than any other party running,yes they like to reward those who work hard (nothing wrong with that) rather that than encouraging people to not bother. maybe people should show the same passion for the likes of the Liberal Democrat leader who is against abortion,taking away a womans right.

[joeysteele]

P

Originally Posted by Kazanne

This is true, plus people from ALL the parties partake in the 'sport' and none of the other leaders of the parties are poor either,people who think Tories are all rich are deluded,they are no different than any other party running,yes they like to reward those who work hard (nothing wrong with that) rather that than encouraging people to not bother. maybe people should show the same passion for the likes of the Liberal Democrat leader who is against abortion,taking away a womans right.

Kazanne,if this was Labour or Lib Dems or even UKIP proposing any kind of vote on this to be legalised,you would be ripping into them big-time.
Oddly enough so would I but I would never give my vote to anyone,advocating this,not a chance.

Because to me how others think about and treat animals,(which whatever the reasons of the human race, I see humans as should be the guardians of animal welfare),reveals to me their likely thinking, not only to animals but anything or anyone seen to be weaker than them.

This is the Conservative party proposing this vote,Labour had to get a massive majority to be able to ensure,again in a freevote getting foxhunting banned,in order to see off Conservative opposition to any ban.

You can justify the Cons all you like and find excuses to exonerate her and her Party who support this barbarism.
You go ahead and believe this would be voted down,Cons after a.good election,support their leader.
She and her Party overall want a vote on this,she strongly supports it.
You delude yourself that even in a freevote,Con MPs will not give her what she wants.
I am not deluded what will be the outcome,she will get it legalised for that powerful hunt lobby that supports her and the Con party,who also donate to the Cons too.

How would foxes vote on this if they could,would they trust anyone or Party who had never ever held a vote to ban it in the past,who thought it a bad idea anyway to ban it a few years ago.
I am sure I know the answer and they would not be voting for or trusting Mrs May and her followers to champion these hunts back.

Mrs May does not after this election,expect now to on anything lose any votes in Parliament that 'she' supports.
She will win this vote and once you have helped elect her with a greater majority,and she gets the win to legalise this again, you cannot then complain about it or change that you helped her do it.
I'm personally glad that is something I will never take the slightest risk on for sure.

There's not a scrap of decency in anyone that wants to use her power to even just think of bringing foxhunting back never mind hold a vote to do so too.
A vote,since she hates losing anything,she would not even be proposing if she felt there was any chance she'd lose it.
She knows she won't,I am 100% sure.she won't lose either,not with a greatly increased Conservative majority of MPs.

You carry on finding excuses for her, to me she is no better than the truly cruel and awful people who organise and ride out in these barbaric cruel hunts.
Shows her heartless mind as to her thinking for me.

I really have no connection or understanding towards anyone who supports this horrible activity.
I can't grasp why any animal lover would want to even risk in any way this coming back.
You have really surprised me on this Kazanne.
I'm quite stunned.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Kazanne,if this was Labour or Lib Dems or even UKIP proposing any kind of vote on this to be legalised,you would be ripping into them big-time.
Oddly enough so would I but I would never give my vote to anyone,advocating this,not a chance.

Because to me how others think about and treat animals,(which whatever the reasons of the human race, I see humans as should be the guardians of animal welfare),reveals to me their likely thinking, not only to animals but anything or anyone seen to be weaker than them.

This is the Conservative party proposing this vote,Labour had to get a massive majority to be able to ensure,again in a freevote getting foxhunting banned,in order to see off Conservative opposition to any ban.

You can justify the Cons all you like and find excuses to exonerate her and her Party who support this barbarism.
You go ahead and believe this would be voted down,Cons after a.good election,support their leader.
She and her Party overall want a vote on this,she strongly supports it.
You delude yourself that even in a freevote,Con MPs will not give her what she wants.
I am not deluded what will be the outcome,she will get it legalised for that powerful hunt lobby that supports her and the Con party,who also donate to the Cons too.

How would foxes vote on this if they could,would they trust anyone or Party who had never ever held a vote to ban it in the past,who thought it a bad idea anyway to ban it a few years ago.
I am sure I know the answer and they would not be voting for or trusting Mrs May and her followers to champion these hunts back.

Mrs May does not after this election,expect now to on anything lose any votes in Parliament that 'she' supports.
She will win this vote and once you have helped elect her with a greater majority,and she gets the win to legalise this again, you cannot then complain about it or change that you helped her do it.
I'm personally glad that is something I will never take the slightest risk on for sure.

There's not a scrap of decency in anyone that wants to use her power to even just think of bringing foxhunting back never mind hold a vote to do so too.
A vote,since she hates losing anything,she would not even be proposing if she felt there was any chance she'd lose it.
She knows she won't,I am 100% sure.she won't lose either,not with a greatly increased Conservative majority of MPs.

You carry on finding excuses for her, to me she is no better than the truly cruel and awful people who organise and ride out in these barbaric cruel hunts.
Shows her heartless mind as to her thinking for me.

It is very rare for people to agree with everything a political party proposes or believes - people usually vote on the principles they support overall. I personally don't support fox hunting, I even wrote an essay against it in my English exam many years ago. I hate it. But I believe you cannot vote against a party you believe would be best for the future of billions of people based on one issue.

I also have faith in human decency and that most would be against such a barbaric sport in this day and age. You cannot let emotions cloud your judgement in the bigger scheme of things.

If it were to be brought back we would have to give her a hard time about it and campaign our socks off and make sure she realised the possibly of a second-term for her could seriously be in doubt if she didn't ban it.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

How would foxes vote on this if they could

Well... they're British foxes so if the past few years have taught us anything, it's that they would vote heavily in favour of the hunt, clap and cheer about everything hunt related, watch other foxes being ripped to shreds and sigh and say - "Well he should have run faster then!"

Originally Posted by Brillopad

If it were to be brought back we would have to give her a hard time about it and campaign our socks off and make sure she realised the possibly of a second-term for her could seriously be in doubt if she didn't ban it.

Are you saying we should protest? You're nothing but a Foxmoaner! Disrespecting democracy!

Crush the saboteur!

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

P

Kazanne,if this was Labour or Lib Dems or even UKIP proposing any kind of vote on this to be legalised,you would be ripping into them big-time.
Oddly enough so would I but I would never give my vote to anyone,advocating this,not a chance.

Because to me how others think about and treat animals,(which whatever the reasons of the human race, I see humans as should be the guardians of animal welfare),reveals to me their likely thinking, not only to animals but anything or anyone seen to be weaker than them.

This is the Conservative party proposing this vote,Labour had to get a massive majority to be able to ensure,again in a freevote getting foxhunting banned,in order to see off Conservative opposition to any ban.

You can justify the Cons all you like and find excuses to exonerate her and her Party who support this barbarism.
You go ahead and believe this would be voted down,Cons after a.good election,support their leader.
She and her Party overall want a vote on this,she strongly supports it.
You delude yourself that even in a freevote,Con MPs will not give her what she wants.
I am not deluded what will be the outcome,she will get it legalised for that powerful hunt lobby that supports her and the Con party,who also donate to the Cons too.

How would foxes vote on this if they could,would they trust anyone or Party who had never ever held a vote to ban it in the past,who thought it a bad idea anyway to ban it a few years ago.
I am sure I know the answer and they would not be voting for or trusting Mrs May and her followers to champion these hunts back.

Mrs May does not after this election,expect now to on anything lose any votes in Parliament that 'she' supports.
She will win this vote and once you have helped elect her with a greater majority,and she gets the win to legalise this again, you cannot then complain about it or change that you helped her do it.
I'm personally glad that is something I will never take the slightest risk on for sure.

There's not a scrap of decency in anyone that wants to use her power to even just think of bringing foxhunting back never mind hold a vote to do so too.
A vote,since she hates losing anything,she would not even be proposing if she felt there was any chance she'd lose it.
She knows she won't,I am 100% sure.she won't lose either,not with a greatly increased Conservative majority of MPs.

You carry on finding excuses for her, to me she is no better than the truly cruel and awful people who organise and ride out in these barbaric cruel hunts.
Shows her heartless mind as to her thinking for me.

I really have no connection or understanding towards anyone who supports this horrible activity.
I can't grasp why any animal lover would want to even risk in any way this coming back.
You have really surprised me on this Kazanne.
I'm quite stunned.

You have nothing to be stunned about Joey ,I have said several times that I will not be voting for her should this barbaric sport be brought back,why would I ? I adore animals,I maybe worded my post wrong,I was just pointing out that it is not just Tories who partake in this 'sport' it is people from all walks of life,yes labour toffs aswell,I have never ever said I supported it and never will.Plus although it is illegal,people are STILL doing it and stupid people go and watch.Where are the police when it is being carried out? Labour may have banned it,but they havent really made sure the people that partake still,are brought to book.Fox hunts still take place,always have,so without proper fines and policing it was a pointless law anyway.send them to prison for a stint,they might get the message then.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

You have nothing to be stunned about Joey ,I have said several times that I will not be voting for her should this barbaric sport be brought back,why would I ? I adore animals,I maybe worded my post wrong,I was just pointing out that it is not just Tories who partake in this 'sport' it is people from all walks of life,yes labour toffs aswell,I have never ever said I supported it and never will.

I came across a rather big fox one evening fairly recently that had been run over by a car and couldn't move its rear end. It was horrible as it had managed to fall off the path and into the road with cars and buses coming directly at it.

A group of us stood there waving at the traffic to go around it as it was still Alive and conscious at that point. After a while a car did run over its rail at one point but there was no response from the fox'. Sadly, but for the best, it had died. At least it wasn't its fate to suffer the same experience again. I will never forget it - my eyes well up every time I think about it.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

You have nothing to be stunned about Joey ,I have said several times that I will not be voting for her should this barbaric sport be brought back,why would I ? I adore animals,I maybe worded my post wrong,I was just pointing out that it is not just Tories who partake in this 'sport' it is people from all walks of life,yes labour toffs aswell,I have never ever said I supported it and never will.Plus although it is illegal,people are STILL doing it and stupid people go and watch.Where are the police when it is being carried out? Labour may have banned it,but they havent really made sure the people that partake still,are brought to book.Fox hunts still take place,always have,so without proper fines and policing it was a pointless law anyway.send them to prison for a stint,they might get the message then.

Fox hunting will not be made legal until the Tory government win this election... not before.

I agree about people from all walks of life, regardless of their political thinking, enjoying fox hunting.

There are still activists keeping a very close eye on legal fox hunters and insuring they don't do anything illegal but those who go out lamping, "illegal fox hunters", they are no different to illegal poachers.

When you say, Labour banned it but aren't keeping a proper eye on the enforcement, Labour are not the party in power. The only top down (on things like illegal fox hunting) we presently have is the Conservative government.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

You have nothing to be stunned about Joey ,I have said several times that I will not be voting for her should this barbaric sport be brought back,why would I ? I adore animals,I maybe worded my post wrong,I was just pointing out that it is not just Tories who partake in this 'sport' it is people from all walks of life,yes labour toffs aswell,I have never ever said I supported it and never will.Plus although it is illegal,people are STILL doing it and stupid people go and watch.Where are the police when it is being carried out? Labour may have banned it,but they havent really made sure the people that partake still,are brought to book.Fox hunts still take place,always have,so without proper fines and policing it was a pointless law anyway.send them to prison for a stint,they might get the message then.

How can Labour make sure the law is upheld,they brought the ban in around 2005.
They have not been the govt.for the last 7 years,why have your Cons not made the Police enforce this.
I'll tell you why,because the Cons are in principle against the ban,so will not make sure it's enforced.
Hence now bringing it back.

Perhaps had Labour won in 2010 or 2015 and when it was clear these hunt organisers could get away with illegally flouting the ban,then Labour could be asked why they were able to get away with that.

People who love animals should be grateful Labour brought the ban in,in the first place.
Rather than not get at the Con led govts of the last 7 years,who have let their supporters/friends/donaters in these hunts get-away with breaking the law.

They won't be breaking any law once she holds this vote and it's legalised again.
Why does only the Con party advocate legalising this again.
That's the question people would be better asking.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

And you assume most tories are FOR hunting. I would disagree as most tories are not upper-class toffs. You are living in the past.

Originally Posted by Kazanne

This is true, plus people from ALL the parties partake in the 'sport' and none of the other leaders of the parties are poor either,people who think Tories are all rich are deluded,they are no different than any other party running,yes they like to reward those who work hard (nothing wrong with that) rather that than encouraging people to not bother. maybe people should show the same passion for the likes of the Liberal Democrat leader who is against abortion,taking away a womans right.

Sorry, at what point in my OP did I make any assumptions either about who partakes in fox hunting, or what the socio-economic status of Tory voters is? I have made two posts in this thread and neither made any such comment or assumption, I merely posted the sources and let the debate begin. Honestly, does anyone on this forum actually read posts before they respond to them?

[Kizzy]

It aids in getting the measure of a party by what they choose to champion, why on earth would the tories throw their support behind such a 'sport' with a tiny minority of supporters? Because that is their target market, the elite, the 5%

[Withano]

I live next to a small wood that must be home to at least 10 foxes, several badgers as well. I often walk past them if I'm home late, they're completely misunderstood creatures

Its the Conservative party, at this point they can probably announce the first annual purge for the summer and people will still be like "hmm yeh but Corbyn isn't really a leader"

[user104658]

If the foxes weren't so feckless and lazy the hounds wouldn't be able to catch them and they would have nothing to worry about

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

If the foxes weren't so feckless and lazy the hounds wouldn't be able to catch them and they would have nothing to worry about

you will find its the hard working fox gets caught, too knackered to run, while the Jeremy Kyle watching foxes are nice and fresh

[AnnieK]

All parties are guilty of turning a blind eye to this but the Conservatives are responsible for the last 7 years that illegal hunting has going on, Labour for the previous 5 years (although I don't know enough about the issue to say how much still went on during the initial years just after the ban). It is a highly emotive issue and had the voting been closer this certainly could have been a vote loser for the Tories. Its not going to have that much of an impact in this election though sadly and so if Mrs May wants the vote offered, it looks like she would get a free reign to do so.

[DemolitionRed]

What ever way you look at it, you can't blame Labour for this!

Blair banned fox hunting
Cameron tried to re-instate fox hunting
May is now following in Cameron's shoes

The reason illegal hunters rarely find themselves in the dock is because the leaders of the Conservative government think its a waste of tax payers money.

[joeysteele]

I recall reading in 2004 that the vote to ban foxhunting had only 12 Labour MPs voting against and we'll over 300 supporting the ban.
The Cons had under 200 MPs at that time whereby only 6 supported the banning of foxhunting with 115 of Con MPs voting against banning it.
The vote being something like 320 for the ban and 145 against,of which 115 of those 145 being said Con MPs.

The Lords were obstructive and then speaker Michael Martin allowed the parliament act to get this made into law.

The Cons were against all through.

Now consider,under 200 Con MPs with 115 voting to keep foxhunting legal then.
Imagine likely nearer 400 of them after this election.

That does not bode well for the Fox at all and shows the Cons have always been the ones the most against making foxhunting illegal and the ones who have been and are,the ones who want it legalised again.