[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Also, do teachers actually want to be armed? Has anyone even asked them if they'd be ok with that?

Yeah, that was my initial thought. Can't think of many teachers who go into the profession on the fact that one day, maybe, Tommy will go crazy and they can then do their best hero impression and save the school.

Its a massive responsibility to put on someone and would never work for the multiple reasons already discussed in this thread.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

Yeah, that was my initial thought. Can't think of many teachers who go into the profession on the fact that one day, maybe, Tommy will go crazy and they can then do their best hero impression and save the school.

Its a massive responsibility to put on someone and would never work for the multiple reasons already discussed in this thread.

Yeah, when I heard it first I thought, ah come on that's absolute madness, I'm actually shocked that some people think it's a great idea tbh

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

That's not what I'm asking and it's also a guess on your part. I'd like to know their actual opinions on the proposal

Well that is not possible but Id imagine that you could get a stat on how many teachers have guns

[Niamh.]

Like I would be more nervous to know that there was going to be guns in the classroom than worry about there being a possible school shooting. It's creating a potential situation imo. Like I'm pretty sure I read that it's more common for people to accidentally get hurt or killed by their own guns/kids getting their hands on those guns than people being saved from bad guys with those same guns

[Crimson Dynamo]

The gun would be kept in a locked drawer

and the key would be on a hook by the door

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

How did you get to that comparison? A teacher is there to teach, that's their job, a Police Officers job is to tackle criminals

The guns are not going any where soon!, in the mean time at least have some sort of protection for the teachers and kids.

Bad guys have guns but the good guys need them too, people on here talk like hippies and flower power.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

The guns are not going any where soon!, in the mean time at least have some sort of protection for the teachers and kids.

Bad guys have guns but the good guys need them too, people on here talk like hippies and flower power.

How patronising. Hippy and flower power is not my way of thinking actually, it's more adding more guns into the mix will probably end up creating more situations rather than solving them.

Gun ownership doubled the risk of homicide and tripled the risk of suicide. This research is bolstered by a national survey that found that a gun in the home was far more likely to be used to threaten a family member or intimate partner than to be used in self-defense.

http://www.slate.com/articles/health...s_suicide.html

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Like I would be more nervous to know that there was going to be guns in the classroom than worry about there being a possible school shooting. It's creating a potential situation imo. Like I'm pretty sure I read that it's more common for people to accidentally get hurt or killed by their own guns/kids getting their hands on those guns than people being saved from bad guys with those same guns

That's because you're not culturally conditioned to be around guns. Many Americans are, and so this isn't really a stretch for those folk... my husband carries (mainly because of his risk of retaliation due to his law enforcement job) and it's concealed. 99% of the time I forget he's even carrying...

I imagine anything the teachers bring in would be concealed and people wouldn't even know they are carrying... and there are months of background checks involved with conceal carry permits, at least here. It took my husband several months to get his carry and he had to divulge a mountain of information to even apply... and that's how it really should work, with very strict screening methods.

We have open carry, but it's rare to see anyone use it here (I've yet to see it myself). Prior to open carry, most who carry on the hip where it is visible are law enforcement officers or are part of some kind of security detail.

Despite this, many shops can have state mandated signage up where they can prohibit citizens to not bring in weapons (there's different signs for open and concealed). Doing so is a major violation of the law. And I doubt there would be open carry in schools, unless it were a security detail such as school police...

Honestly, I prefer this to the giant brick walls they're throwing up around the schools in our area. They look so depressing when I've driven by. The schools I grew up in now have Catholic private school-esk fencing and they've always had police, but seems like they try to be more visible than before. They also put in metal detectors. Mainly because of gang activity and them bringing in weapons, but yeah...

If an AR ban would actually work, then I think many more people would be in support of it.... but Columbine occurred during the last AR ban so... yeah.

[Niamh.]

I don't think we're ever going to be on the same page about this tbh Maru. To me, a teacher coming into a school with a gun on them is horrific

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I don't think we're ever going to be on the same page about this tbh Maru. To me, a teacher coming into a school with a gun on them is horrific

And that's fine.

[thesheriff443]

To quote arista, it's a sign of the times.

[Livia]

I find the whole notion of arming teachers unworkable. Being responsible for a class is one thing, being responsible for their safety against a shooter is too much to ask. Anything can happen... highly trained soldiers and police officers make mistakes, suppose a teacher accidentally shot someone other than the shooter. How would they be affected legally? Mentally? And of course, it would mean the teacher was the first target.

I think until they sort out their archaic gun laws, every school needs and airport-style security entrance.

[Vicky.]

Yup..the solution to shootings in schools is definitely to put more guns into schools.

However, I did see this yesterday, but then on the news apparently he was denying saying this and saying teachers just needed training but no guns, AND THEN later on he was apparently saying that the gun laws need to be tightened. Like, his opinion did a Uturn over the space of a few hours.

Even if arming teachers was a good solution (its not)..are they going to pay these teachers more given they are now teachers + police..expected to chase down gunmen or stand up in the middle of it all to try and shoot a student? Will they be safe from being sued, if they shoot someone else by mistake? And so on. Its just nuts.

But America will never give up its guns..no matter what happens so all discussion is futile

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Yup..the solution to shootings in schools is definitely to put more guns into schools.

However, I did see this yesterday, but then on the news apparently he was denying saying this and saying teachers just needed training but no guns, AND THEN later on he was apparently saying that the gun laws need to be tightened. Like, his opinion did a Uturn over the space of a few hours.

Even if arming teachers was a good solution (its not)..are they going to pay these teachers more given they are now teachers + police..expected to chase down gunmen or stand up in the middle of it all to try and shoot a student? Will they be safe from being sued, if they shoot someone else by mistake? And so on. Its just nuts.

But America will never give up its guns..no matter what happens so all discussion is futile

Exactly, LT keeps raising the point that alot of these teachers may already own guns and they might but for all the reasons you've just stated that doesn't mean they want to be a designated Police Officer/Sniper should a student decide to go rogue. Look at the scrutney a Police Officer faces when someone is shot, why would a teacher want to put themselves in that kind of a situation when it isn't even their job

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Exactly, LT keeps raising the point that alot of these teachers may already own guns and they might but for all the reasons you've just stated that doesn't mean they want to be a designated Police Officer/Sniper should a student decide to go rogue. Look at the scrutney a Police Officer faces when someone is shot, why would a teacher want to put themselves in that kind of a situation when it isn't even their job

one magic thing would make this job very attractive to a teacher

Spoiler:

$

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

one magic thing would make this job very attractive to a teacher

Spoiler:

$

Are they willing to give teachers a salary that includes

Teaching
Security guard
Armed police

Which would mean tripling the wages at the very least

Along with giving them training in all of these areas? I doubt it.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

one magic thing would make this job very attractive to a teacher

Spoiler:

$

It would want to be a hell of a lot of money, the potential down sides are huge

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

It would want to be a hell of a lot of money, the potential down sides are huge

Its America, the dollar bill is King

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Its America, the dollar bill is King

Ok Arista

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

one magic thing would make this job very attractive to a teacher

Spoiler:

$

A teaching qualification is a degree course but the teaching profession is poorly paid. The kind of person that goes into teaching isn't doing it for money to begin with, so throwing more at them is the wrong answer to the wrong question.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

A teaching qualification is a degree course but the teaching profession is poorly paid. The kind of person that goes into teaching isn't doing it for money to begin with, so throwing more at them is the wrong answer to the wrong question.

If they are poorly paid they will welcome the extra money, for sure

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

If they are poorly paid they will welcome the extra money, for sure

It's not just extra free money though, is it? When US soldiers are killed in action, their families receive 100,000 USD, when teachers are killed in action, they are removed from school salary outgoings.

I would leave the profession rather than take on these extra duties. Trumps budget actually cuts money for school security.

The whole debate is absurd; the American people are strongly in favour of gun control and regulations, yet politicians being paid by the NRA are able to even prevent them having to debate it.

Arming teachers fails to attack the root cause of the problem. You can't just throw more guns into the mix and let everyone have an old weststyle shootout. Take the guns away from the people because they are unnecessary.

If the government wanted to kill every American citizen, there is not a thing they could do about it, even with all 370m guns in the country. They could just hide in their bunkers, and send drones/chemicals, so even the initial reason for allowing/encouraging them is outdated.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

It's not just extra free money though, is it? When US soldiers are killed in action, their families receive 100,000 USD, when teachers are killed in action, they are removed from school salary outgoings.

I would leave the profession rather than take on these extra duties. Trumps budget actually cuts money for school security.

The whole debate is absurd; the American people are strongly in favour of gun control and regulations, yet politicians being paid by the NRA are able to even prevent them having to debate it.

Arming teachers fails to attack the root cause of the problem. You can't just throw more guns into the mix and let everyone have an old weststyle shootout. Take the guns away from the people because they are unnecessary.

If the government wanted to kill every American citizen, there is not a thing they could do about it, even with all 370m guns in the country. They could just hide in their bunkers, and send drones/chemicals, so even the initial reason for allowing/encouraging them is outdated.

"The whole debate is absurd; the American people are strongly in favour of gun control and regulations, yet politicians being paid by the NRA are able to even prevent them having to debate it. "


You have not long ago had an election and elected a very republican candidate so what you say obviously isnt quite true is it.

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

"The whole debate is absurd; the American people are strongly in favour of gun control and regulations, yet politicians being paid by the NRA are able to even prevent them having to debate it. "


You have not long ago had an election and elected a very republican candidate so what you say obviously isnt quite true is it.

I'm not sure how you can link those 2 things. Elections are about more than one thing, and a lot of democrats actually live in fear of the NRA too. Republicans are more pro gun statistically, but if I wish to use your logic I could just simply point out that if the US was so pro-gun, then how has a post civil rights act Democrat ever been elected?

[user104658]

They're also overlooking something totally fundamental here:

What they're essentially expecting, is for a teacher to aim and fire at someone who is likely to be a student that they have known for years. Now... WW2 stats show that a huge percentage of conscripted SOLDIERS (on both sides) never fired their rifles, or deliberately aimed high, so that they wouldn't actually have to kill anyone. It's one of the reasons that most countries have completely replaced conscription with paid / trained army - because it takes a lot of psychological prep (and a few psychological "tricks") to turn normal people into effective killers.

So basically... there's a very high chance that the vast majority of these "armed teachers" won't actually pull the trigger when it comes down to it, or at the very least, will hesitate for long enough to be shot first.