[Marsh.]

So mass shootings are caused by movies and single parents?

So why is America the only place this is happening?

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

So mass shootings are caused by movies and single parents?

So why is America the only place this is happening?

It's not, there was a mass shooting in Cumbria this decade. Some nutcase called Derrick Bird.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Alf

It's not, there was a mass shooting in Cumbria this decade. Some nutcase called Derrick Bird.

How come it's so very rare?

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

How come it's so very rare?

We have less nutters than America.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Alf

We have less nutters than America.

Nutters slang for guns?

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Alf

We have less nutters than America.

That's statistically unlikely.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Alf

It's not, there was a mass shooting in Cumbria this decade. Some nutcase called Derrick Bird.

"This decade".

How many people did he manage to kill compared to in the US and how often does this happen?

[GiRTh]

Youtube video

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

Youtube video

...wow that’s powerful stuff, he has such passion....I agree with everything he says...Trump’s mindset is sadly an echo of what must be in so many hearts...it’s interesting what he says of ‘its every generation’...I haven’t known a regression like this before...

[Kizzy]

That is very powerful, I've said on this forum many times I feel there is a similar undercurrent in England, so much of what he said can ve mirrored here. There are still colonialist attitudes here, right now they are at the fore, the most evident and apparent they've been since Edwardian times imo.
Trump being not to blame is to an extent true, same with Johnson here they are figureheads for a movement.
A collective malaise that has always been around but more adequately suppressed.

[bots]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...wow that’s powerful stuff, he has such passion....I agree with everything he says...Trump’s mindset is sadly an echo of what must be in so many hearts...it’s interesting what he says of ‘its every generation’...I haven’t known a regression like this before...

i don't think it is a regression sadly. Everything in America has been papering over the cracks. Trump is a symptom, not the cause unfortunately.

I think we are seeing the same effect across europe too

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

i don't think it is a regression sadly. Everything in America has been papering over the cracks. Trump is a symptom, not the cause unfortunately.

I think we are seeing the same effect across europe too

...that’s it though, Bots..(...I don’t know if regression is the correct thought but..)....there are generations who would have given no credence to a Donald Trump...no validation at all..?...those cracks would not be screaming so loud and proud as they are today in this generation..?...and similar in Europe, as you say...there has to be a reason for that...

...the power of his words is still ringing with me...

[bots]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...that’s it though, Bots..(...I don’t know if regression is the correct thought but..)....there are generations who would have given no credence to a Donald Trump...an validation at all..?...those cracks would not be screaming so loud and proud as they are today in this generation..?...and similar in Europe, as you say...there has to be a reason for that...

...the power of his words is still ringing with me...

i think there are generations where their thoughts have been suppressed. Donald Trump came along and they have once again been able to voice their thoughts. Donald Trump is in power because of years of suppression. The dems can moan all they like, but they are responsible for people finally saying enough is enough, I will be heard and the result is Trump. Trump has a support base of around 30% of the population. In normal circumstances that wouldn't be enough to win, but throw Clinton into the mix, a dose of Russian interference and you have a Trump win. People should not rely on democracy to remove Trump either. He will use every trick in the book to win in 2020 and if he was prepared to play dirty before, be in no doubt it will be a lot worse in 2020.

[Tom4784]

There's been study after study since the 90's about violence and video games and they've all proven that there's no link. It's easier to blame video games then it is to blame the people lobbying your party to kill off gun control, I guess.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

There's been study after study since the 90's about violence and video games and they've all proven that there's no link. It's easier to blame video games then it is to blame the people lobbying your party to kill off gun control, I guess.

Well every country has video games not every country has crazy gun control laws like the USA, the USA seems to be the only one with big mass shooting problems....it's that simple

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Well every country has video games not every country has crazy gun control laws like the USA, the USA seems to be the only one with big mass shooting problems....it's that simple

Yup, but why face those facts when NRA is donating endlessly to get what it wants?

Gun laws that Trump repealed out of pettiness towards Obama could have saved lives here. His rhetoric inspired these shootings and his actions made it so that it was easier for these monsters to do what they did.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Yup, but why face those facts when NRA is donating endlessly to get what it wants?

Gun laws that Trump repealed out of pettiness towards Obama could have saved lives here. His rhetoric inspired these shootings and his actions made it so that it was easier for these monsters to do what they did.

It's so stupid when the answer is so ****ing obvious but people continue to act like it's not that at all

[Twosugars]

I mean the gun use has been made out to be a great freedom issue
It was true when America was a frontier country, wild west etc. It's not the case now.
Sadly, banning guns completely won't work though as all those nutters and survivalists would turn their compounds into fortresses and spill blood fighting the feds.
But incremental removal of the most deadly types of weapons while tightening the gun laws is doable if there's a political will.

[Tom4784]

You can't have reasoned debate with irrational people and a lot of Trump's base is irrational and beyond reason at this point. I think a lot of other people who ended up voting for him last time who aren't extreme in their views have probably turned their back on him by now. The only people left on his side are the extreme elements who can't really be reasoned with.

[bots]

Trump has a base of 30% and it doesn't matter what is said, they will always support him. The moment someone throws bigot or whatever generalised insult at them, the undecided then need to make a yes or no choice .... Is he a bigot or not. Throwing that term around is a cop out, there is much more chance of someone taking offence if they even slightly agree with Trump and are by association being classed as a bigot thus bringing more to the side of Trump.

Use reasoned argument, it's not so clear cut, people don't feel the need to join with and support "the bigot". It's non polarising, it avoids creating division.

At the moment, most of the dems are falling for it every time

[The Slim Reaper]

Don't call rapists, rapists said the concerned citizen; they won't realise rape is wrong if you call them out for rape.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

Don't call rapists, rapists said the concerned citizen; they won't realise rape is wrong if you call them out for rape.

Not rapists, but people with non-consensual sex preference. We mustn't forgo a reasoned dialogue

[Withano]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Trump has a base of 30% and it doesn't matter what is said, they will always support him. The moment someone throws bigot or whatever generalised insult at them, the undecided then need to make a yes or no choice .... Is he a bigot or not. Throwing that term around is a cop out, there is much more chance of someone taking offence if they even slightly agree with Trump and are by association being classed as a bigot thus bringing more to the side of Trump.

Use reasoned argument, it's not so clear cut, people don't feel the need to join with and support "the bigot". It's non polarising, it avoids creating division.

At the moment, most of the dems are falling for it every time

The argument is actually over when a bigot defends their views with bigotry, not once they’re called a bigot.

I’d imagine the bigot would then kick up a fuss which is probably why you’ve said what you’ve said cos the discussion will turn to squabbles. But na, they lose when they bring outdated views to the present day.

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Trump has a base of 30% and it doesn't matter what is said, they will always support him. The moment someone throws bigot or whatever generalised insult at them, the undecided then need to make a yes or no choice .... Is he a bigot or not. Throwing that term around is a cop out, there is much more chance of someone taking offence if they even slightly agree with Trump and are by association being classed as a bigot thus bringing more to the side of Trump.

Use reasoned argument, it's not so clear cut, people don't feel the need to join with and support "the bigot". It's non polarising, it avoids creating division.

At the moment, most of the dems are falling for it every time

In your first sentence you are kind of agreeing with TS that the 30% wont hear reasoned arguments. Define 'reasoned argument' please cuz I'm not sure what you mean. I hear alot of reasoned arguments answered by that 30% with outrageous bias.

Regarding anyone who aligns themselves with Donnies rhetoric. I dont deny there are immigration issues all over the world but to talk of an 'invasion' and 'infestation' I dont think reasonable people align themselves with such views.

[bots]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

In your first sentence you are kind of agreeing with TS that the 30% wont hear reasoned arguments. Define 'reasoned argument' please cuz I'm not sure what you mean. I hear alot of reasoned arguments answered by that 30% with outrageous bias.

Regarding anyone who aligns themselves with Donnies rhetoric. I dont deny there are immigration issues all over the world but to talk of an 'invasion' and 'infestation' I dont think reasonable people align themselves with such views.

Lets start with the fact that bigot is a very generalised insult. It's not a term of endearment. The moment it is used it forces people to say no he is not or yes he is ... it polarising.

If an undecided voter agrees with anything that "the bigot" says, then he is by association a bigot and becomes equally offended. That's how Trump gets voters

Trump uses terms like infestation and invasion because he knows it triggers the dems and makes them come back with ... you racist bas ... polarising .... because at the end of the day, there is an immigration problem, everyone knows it .... everyone knows something needs to be done .... but here are the dems calling Trump a racist bas for suggesting it

Everything Trump does is planned to divide and polarise ... and with the exception of one or two like Nancy, he gets them every time.