[arista]

"fair number"


many of those - may not even vote


As Labour is staying in this Cut back way


Alot can change in 2 years
so you have no idea but what you think

[joeysteele]

Well, that's all any of us have arista really,what we think.
In those 2 years though, the effects of the further cuts still to come plus the real devastating effects of this bedroom tax will filter through by the end of this year and all through next as that is likely when the court cases for rent arrears and evictions begin.

The main problems with the ongoing NHS reforms will also likely hit waiting lists and further problems will occur there in the NHS too.
The growth forecasts have all been heavily downgraded again in the recent statement from the Chancellor, all independent sources are it seems stating that people will be worse off in 2015 than they were in 2010.

The deficit reduction policy from 2010 will be nowhere near what the Govt said it would have to be by 2015.
No one but this Govt to blame for that not working.
They argued the severe cuts were needed in the first year because it wasn't known what could happen in the Eurozone.

Teachers are now getting ready to be at loggerheads with this Govt and the Police still have no faith in the current Home secretary.

I may not know what will be the situation as to the result of the next general election but this Govt is far from looking a good bet to win now in 2015, the Lib Dems are still at best on half the votes they got last time, the Conservatives have never even reached over 35% in any poll for well over a year now,as they could only barely do in the 2010 election anyway even after that chaos and gaffe ridden campaign by the Labour party.

I really don't believe the vast majority of voters like to see the weakest hit by the strongest, as this bedroom tax kicks in, I really believe this Govt will be held in contempt by the voters of this policy for doing just that.
I and indeed you, know nothing for sure, however I do have great faith in the voters of this Country and I have faith they will really turn, once the effects are seen as to the devastation of a great many of the most vulnerable peoples lives through this Govt and this bedroom tax policy.

A lot can change in 2 years as you say, something you said earlier was things will be bad for the next 10 years so in that case,I cannot myself see anything positive coming to help the Conservatives get anywhere near an overall majority in 2015, in fact I would go as far as to say they will be a fair way away from even being the largest party then too.

At the very least,I believe there will likely be a Labour govt in coalition with the Lib Dems.
The Lib Dems then doing their usual turncoat trick and voting to repeal a lot of what they strongly supported in this Coalition.

Although it is more likely the voters will give Labour an overall majority. The problem for the voters last time was Gordon Brown,yet even then the Conservatives could only add 3.5% to their vote from 2005 and finish on only 36%.
In fact the Conservatives only added about 5.5% to their vote in the whole 13 years from 1997 while they were in opposition.
If the country had doubts about them then, they will be even more careful to avoid helping them to an overall majority in 2015.
A different leader and Labour could have grabbed another 15 seats at least likely.

Anyway arista, we are never going to agree on this issue, I do feel though I can be almost 100% sure that this bedroom tax and the effects of it will do absolutely nothing to help this Govt,nothing at all and I do hope it does become their poll tax.

[arista]

"Anyway arista, we are never going to agree on this issue, I do feel though I can be almost 100% sure that this bedroom tax and the effects of it will do absolutely nothing to help this Govt,nothing at all and I do hope it does become their poll tax. "


Sure
But this is no Poll Tax

Its a benefit for some
that is Being Cut.



Do not get stuck in Hype

[arista]

"I believe there will likely be a Labour govt in coalition with the Lib Dems."


You having a Laugh
Ed has Refused to work with Nick

Thats from Todays News
Labour wants to be alone - the stupid feckers


"900,000 choose to come off sickness benefit ahead of tests"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/poli...-of-tests.html


That says a Great Deal about New Labours Feck Up

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by arista

"I believe there will likely be a Labour govt in coalition with the Lib Dems."


You having a Laugh
Ed has Refused to work with Nick

Thats from Todays News
Labour wants to be alone - the stupid feckers


"900,000 choose to come off sickness benefit ahead of tests"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/poli...-of-tests.html

That says a Great Deal about New Labours Feck Up

If Labour don't get an overall majority but if they can manage to govern with the likes of the SDLP from N.Ireland they won't likely need the Lib Dems anyway.
If they did though, Miliband will not need to worry as to working with Nick Clegg, Clegg will resign as leader as soon as it is clear the Lib Dems have lost seats heavily and that is if he even manages to hold his own seat in Sheffield Hallam.

Plenty in the Lib Dems want Clegg gone,he will likely be off to Europe very soon after the 2015 election,in fact many of his party wish he would go sooner.

As to the above as to benefits,If that is the case, then good that so many have come off benefits, I don't deny there are people who are on benefits who shouldn't be, there will always be some who abuse the system.
The vast majority don't, I find it amazing when those at the lower end of the scale on benefits get demonised by the Conservatives and some of their supporters while little is said about Companies who 'fiddle' against paying VAT, and also high earners who manage to avoid paying due taxes.

Poeple get a part time job, some keep claiming benefits,all of which are maybe not what they are entitled to, likely for a time,I don't agree with that.

I have absolutely no problem with any Govt looking for people who abuse the system, I do have a massive problem and contempt for any Govt that would demonise and punish people who don't and never have abused the benefits entitlements they have though.

As to the bit in bold, well this Govt is doing an even better job of that than Labour did now in my view and I never ever believed I would actually be saying that someday.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by arista

"I believe there will likely be a Labour govt in coalition with the Lib Dems."


You having a Laugh
Ed has Refused to work with Nick

Thats from Todays News
Labour wants to be alone - the stupid feckers


"900,000 choose to come off sickness benefit ahead of tests"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/poli...-of-tests.html


That says a Great Deal about New Labours Feck Up

Not really, since it was thatcher that stuck loads of people onto sickness benefits to massage the unemployment figures.

Yes, labour should have done something about it during their time in power, but they didnt cause this, unfortunately for you

Also, personally I am highly dubious about the 90k figure. I cant see 90k people just not bothering to even attend their medical.

[Kizzy]

I agree that we have to find social housing for people who are desperate for them, however I do NOT feel this is the correct way to free up housing. And in most cases it won't it just penalises those who are elderly, disabled and or vulnerable.
Why are more social housing not being constructed?
Why are the social housing stock we have not adequately maintained?

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I agree that we have to find social housing for people who are desperate for them, however I do NOT feel this is the correct way to free up housing. And in most cases it won't it just penalises those who are elderly, disabled and or vulnerable.
Why are more social housing not being constructed?
Why are the social housing stock we have not adequately maintained?

Also, why has the right to buy scheme not been abolished. Since thats part of what got us into this mess in the first place.

Would have been grand if everytime someone bought their council house, another was built. But it hasnt ended up like that. Yet the stock is STILL being sold off and none built to replace it.

This money they are now throwing at people to buy houses (which people can use to buy second homes too)...they should be using it to build more social housing instead IMO.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Also, why has the right to buy scheme not been abolished. Since thats part of what got us into this mess in the first place.

Would have been grand if everytime someone bought their council house, another was built. But it hasnt ended up like that. Yet the stock is STILL being sold off and none built to replace it.

This money they are now throwing at people to buy houses (which people can use to buy second homes too)...they should be using it to build more social housing instead IMO.

Absolutely,100% agreement from me as to that point too.

[Kizzy]

Excellent point vicky, can't believe I forgot about this, it is exactly what happened when the right to buy scheme was introduced lots of people bought their council home, many lost their jobs not long after and the repossesion rates in the very early 90's soared...
Why would they want to replicate that?...

[Vicky.]

LOL this keeps getting better and better

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/sc...om-tax-1795785

PAEDOPHILES and rapists will dodge the bedroom tax while poverty-hit families face homelessness.

A shocking loophole in the Con-Dem welfare cuts, which come into force today, could mean thousands of sex offenders being exempt.

[Kizzy]

Social analysts are concerned that deprivation levels are going back to those of 30 years ago, with the poorest families worse off than they were under Margaret Thatcher in the 1980s.Debt and food poverty are growing, homelessness is increasing, and demand on food banks is soaring – a sign of more people falling through the welfare net. The social impact of this impoverishment of Britain's poorest families – with more than 60% of such households in work – will unravel recent achievements in tackling poverty, say campaigners. According to Alison Garnham, chief executive of the CPAG, the coalition "is on course to leave behind the worst child poverty record of any government for a generation".

Others see the welfare agenda as presaging a profound shift in the relationship between the state and its most vulnerable citizens. "Last year I warned that we risk a decade of destitution. Some thought I was being over-dramatic," says Julia Unwin, head of the Joseph Rowntree Foundation. "I am more convinced than ever that we have a perfect storm brewing; the reforms to welfare, the economic slowdown and spiralling costs, together with an increasingly spiteful tone in how we describe people in poverty, risks the UK becoming a nation where people face destitution."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/20...-cap-tottenham

[arista]

Yes Kizzy
But this is Not a Bedroom Tax
Its a Benefit that Half of Labour and Conservative (Workers)
say must stop.

New Labour did not build massive Housing in there massive long 13 years
so as a result - spare rooms will be used or paid for.

There are many cases which will not be in this
Medical reasons. This takes time to sort.


Life In The Fast Lane

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by arista

Yes Kizzy
But this is Not a Bedroom Tax
Its a Benefit that Half of Labour and Conservative (Workers)
say must stop.

New Labour did not build massive Housing in there massive long 13 years
so as a result - spare rooms will be used or paid for.

There are many cases which will not be in this
Medical reasons. This takes time to sort.


Life In The Fast Lane

What would you call it, If you object to that term that has been adopted by the majority of the UK and is entirely apt?
Time? that is the one thing the elderlly and the disabled do not have while the government flounder around attempting to bash a square peg into a round hole.
Build more social housing... that is the only viable option here it would tick so many boxes and be of the greatest benefit, Why do we have town planners?
villages could be erected reasonably cheaply now with the advances in prefabricated housing.
Who will this model they have implemented benefit?

[arista]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

What would you call it, If you object to that term that has been adopted by the majority of the UK and is entirely apt?
Time? that is the one thing the elderlly and the disabled do not have while the government flounder around attempting to bash a square peg into a round hole.
Build more social housing... that is the only viable option here it would tick so many boxes and be of the greatest benefit, Why do we have town planners?
villages could be erected reasonably cheaply now with the advances in prefabricated housing.
Who will this model they have implemented benefit?

No Left wingers call it that

Its a Benefit Stop.


"villages could be erected reasonably cheaply now "
Yes I agree 100%.

Housing can be built fast nowdays
and also why did New Labour not Build
them in their massive long 13 years

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by arista

No Left wingers call it that

Its a Benefit Stop.


"villages could be erected reasonably cheaply now "
Yes I agree 100%.

Housing can be built fast nowdays
and also why did New Labour not Build
them in their massive long 13 years

Its called that in the right wing rags too. Its just wording.

Apparently its proper name is 'the spare room subsidy'. According to Cameron.

But who cares what people call it, whatever its name..it is unfair and has not been thought through well at all...

[arista]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Its called that in the right wing rags too. Its just wording.

Apparently its proper name is 'the spare room subsidy'. According to Cameron.

But who cares what people call it, whatever its name..it is unfair and has not been thought through well at all...

Vicky it will take some time for medical people/homes
to sort their extra room to stay as it is.
But they are working to get it right.

And Half of Labour and Conservative Workers
agree with this as every room is needed.

For Example, my bunker is private
No council involved
I work Hard. Pay my Taxes

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by arista

No Left wingers call it that

Its a Benefit Stop.


"villages could be erected reasonably cheaply now "
Yes I agree 100%.

Housing can be built fast nowdays
and also why did New Labour not Build
them in their massive long 13 years

Why why why....Z.
We can ask why untill the cows come home, I have no answers for that and now is not the time for a retrospective.
Is this the most proactive thing our government could have come up with in these times of economic malaise?
Whether or not you or anyone agrees with the term bedroom tax this is what it equates to.
The government have now offloaded the responsibility for council tax onto local council now, so there is added pressure there for areas with a high level of benefit claimants to recoup funds any which way they can.
They are not therefore going to be as sympathetic to the needs of their communities as they need the money to ensure the maintainance of essential frontline services... in essence, we are screwed.

[joeysteele]

Bedroom tax, under occupancy of social housing charge,(only being discriminately applied to the vulnerable having to claim benefit though).
Whatever you call it, is going to take money away every week from the people who can least afford to have money taken off them.
As I and others try to keep pointing out, as do local authorities,Conservative, Labour and Lib Dem ones,there are not the smaller properties available to move all these people into anyway,however those who cannot move, even if they wanted to, still have to pay this money extra every week.

What a ridiculous thing to do to anyone in any circumstances, to say you have to pay this charge/tax even if they have nowhere else smaller for you to go, there is no way to avoid doing so from today.
Like many other policies over the last 3 years, this is one of the daftest and most heartless yet.

Lib Dems are starting to run scared on it now, time that gutless and heartless politician IDS, already a massively failed politician at that, was forced to ditch this rotten idea once and for all.
What he is doing planning incomes and livelihoods is beyond me anyway,even his own party didn't trust him with theri future as leader.

[arista]

Yes Joey it will take money or homes
of Council housing people.

But thats the way it is going.

No one has a safe job
even in banking

Times are hard

[arista]

"in essence, we are screwed. "


Yes Kizzy,
some in Council homes may be.

But they are better here than in Cyprus.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by arista

"in essence, we are screwed. "


Yes Kizzy,
some in Council homes may be.

But they are better here than in Cyprus.

If you and I know it those who are implementing these changes will too.
We are not in Cyprus we are in the UK.

It is a very old tory ideology cut those less fortunate adrift, as a society we are backpeddling.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

If you and I know it those who are implementing these changes will too.
We are not in Cyprus we are in the UK.

It is a very old tory ideology cut those less fortunate adrift, as a society we are backpeddling.

Yes you can say that.

But Times Are Hard

[Kizzy]

Invest in communities, build .. grow. There is room for social and private housing and free schools now mean the pressure is off LA's to provide.
Money is cascading into holes and the pockets of oiligarchs.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Invest in communities, build .. grow. There is room for social and private housing and free schools now mean the pressure is off LA's to provide.
Money is cascading into holes and the pockets of oiligarchs.

Yes Kizzy Great Points