[Macie Lightfoot]

I really don't get this idea that Helen is this honest raw n rull truthteller. What is really is, is an incredibly insecure chick who misinterprets anything and everything as a personal attack, and then flips the **** out on people when it's not necessary. She assumes the worst of everyone and the best of herself so she's completely blind to how she treats others (which is just hammering away with half-truths and whole-lies.)

[FlippingEck]

Originally Posted by jessicadanielle

Arghhhhh!

If someone said to their friend while giggling "oh shut up!" then there is quite clearly no malice involved.

If someone pounces towards somebody screaming "oh shut up!" in their face, then it's pretty intimidating.

Quite clearly, the way you say a sentence makes a HUGE difference to what purpose was intended by what you said. How anyone can disagree with that is beyond me.

Im not talking about purpose or intention. Im talking about FACTUAL CONTENT. Stand up. whisper in your most angelic voice, today is Tuesday.... then shout in your most aggressive horrible nastiest voice TODAY IS TUESDAY.... it doesn't make it Wednesday! Try it..

[Jules2]

Originally Posted by FlippingEck

Besides... in my OPINION... Jale did have slug like characteristics.... that's not bullying.. it's observational.. similarly with wasp..

Aw I didnt like Jale at all once she changed her sides but I do feel it is wrong to make such observations known in public and on tv. Very cruel as slug has a rather sluggish meaning. Wasp cold be taken more as a flighty one but oh what a sting it has in its tail. Possibly we could therefore say that Helen was the wasp? Only joking!

[Jules2]

Originally Posted by FlippingEck

Im not talking about purpose or intention. Im talking about FACTUAL CONTENT. Stand up. whisper in your most angelic voice, today is Tuesday.... then shout in your most aggressive horrible nastiest voice TODAY IS TUESDAY.... it doesn't make it Wednesday! Try it..

The way something is said is totally relevant to a situation, it can either lead into a peaceful conversation or into a war zone.

[Kizzy]

So she can't say slug or wasp but many label her a bitch... which is a female dog

[kefln]

Originally Posted by FlippingEck

Besides... in my OPINION... Jale did have slug like characteristics.... that's not bullying.. it's observational.. similarly with wasp..

And that just killed your creditability .

[jessicadanielle]

Originally Posted by FlippingEck

Im not talking about purpose or intention. Im talking about FACTUAL CONTENT. Stand up. whisper in your most angelic voice, today is Tuesday.... then shout in your most aggressive horrible nastiest voice TODAY IS TUESDAY.... it doesn't make it Wednesday! Try it..

We're not talking about when Helen tells people what day it is, we're talking about when she calls people names and shouts her opinions, which isn't factual content anyway.

[Robodog]

I used to support Ashleigh too

But recently - and especially after last night's episode - i can totally see now that Ashleigh is a horrible, manipulative bitch

Give me Helen's upfront anger over Ashleigh's manipulative sneakiness anyday


If you want someone nice to win - then you'd better off voting for the other 4.

Ashleigh is every bit as bad as Helen - but in a much colder, more sly way

(examples being : her 'evil plan', her name calling of Helen - vile, ugly etc, her weeks of bitching with Danielle about the others and last night her snuggling into Ash in front of a very upset Helen - despite manipulating all the other girls to nominate Ash behind Helen's back)

[kefln]

Originally Posted by Macie Lightfoot

I really don't get this idea that Helen is this honest raw n rull truthteller. What is really is, is an incredibly insecure chick who misinterprets anything and everything as a personal attack, and then flips the **** out on people when it's not necessary. She assumes the worst of everyone and the best of herself so she's completely blind to how she treats others (which is just hammering away with half-truths and whole-lies.)

Point well made.

Its about justification, she shouts people down, calls them names, but we'll call it honest because that sounds better.

[rionablue]

I don't particularly want Helen to win I would rather Christopher but she would possibly be my second choice. Im sorry and I might be in the minority here but I firmly believe there were no bullies in the house. As I have said in a previous post the definition of a bully in my eyes is someone who attacks and belittles in either words or actions another person who is too weak to defend themselves therefore who's character is assassinated and they cant stand up for themselves. Every single housemate in the house this year was perfectaly capable of standing up for themselves

That is why when Helen attacked the likes of Mathew or Danielle for example there were almighty rows ensued as they fought back. Same can be said for Christopher. When Jale was called foul names she shrugged it off and bitched away again. Neither Helen nor Ashleigh are bullies. Both have bitchy qualities both have also hearts. I am not a fan of Ashleigh I have grown to like Helen in recent weeks but I honestly and truly think the 'bully' word is trotted out year after year. I was bullied seriously in primary school as I was shy and a little bit smaller than other kids.. They pulled my hair, called me names and pretended to the teacher I slapped them. THAT IS BULLYING

[Fendertele]

I think if any-one on this Forum were in the house, and was on the receiving end of Helen, they would feel just how other HM's feel about her and her clique. People like Helen operate on the fear of what might happen if you cross them, firstly, they pick on weaker people in a group who are outsiders, with not much to back them up, they then do what Helen has done, shout them down, swear at them and belittle them, the line is then drawn, and that fear of ridicule alone in front of a group of people, is enough to make some weaker people join her, that's how this sort of behaviour operates, be it in school, the work place etc, etc,.....Then you have the bullies clique forming, I have seen this happen in life, time and time again.

[jessicadanielle]

Originally Posted by Robodog

I used to support Ashleigh too

But recently - and especially after last night's episode - i can totally see now that Ashleigh is a horrible, manipulative bitch

Give me Helen's upfront anger over Ashleigh's manipulative sneakiness anyday


If you want someone nice to win - then you'd better off voting for the other 4.

Ashleigh is every bit as bad as Helen - but in a much colder, more sly way

(examples being : her 'evil plan', her name calling of Helen - vile, ugly etc, her weeks of bitching with Danielle about the others and last night her snuggling into Ash in front of a very upset Helen - despite manipulating all the other girls to nominate Ash behind Helen's back)

Same really. Having been a pretty strong Ashleigh supporter for a while and really disliking Helen, I've come to the conclusion that I don't particularly like either of them. I would still say Helen is miles worse than Ashleigh though, and that in a way, Ashleigh has been backed into a bit of a corner by Helen. If there hadn't been an antagonistic character like Helen around, I don't think we'd have seen so much of Ashleigh's bad side. I think Helen, however, would act how she had regardless of what mix of people had been around, which is evident by how many people she's had run-ins with throughout the series.

Chris/Christopher to win for me

[FlippingEck]

Originally Posted by Jules2

The way something is said is totally relevant to a situation, it can either lead into a peaceful conversation or into a war zone.

Jules I have AGREED and said the way something is said is relevant to the situation, ie it can make a peaceful situation a war zone, what I have said is the way in which something is said DOES NOT make the sentence untrue or invalid..

[FlippingEck]

Originally Posted by kefln

Point well made.

Its about justification, she shouts people down, calls them names, but we'll call it honest because that sounds better.

Asleigh is a sly manipulative little bitch, but hey, we'll just call her angelic and princess like because that sounds better...

[Robodog]

Originally Posted by jessicadanielle

Same really. Having been a pretty strong Ashleigh supporter for a while and really disliking Helen, I've come to the conclusion that I don't particularly like either of them. I would still say Helen is miles worse than Ashleigh though, and that in a way, Ashleigh has been backed into a bit of a corner by Helen. If there hadn't been an antagonistic character like Helen around, I don't think we'd have seen so much of Ashleigh's bad side. I think Helen, however, would act how she had regardless of what mix of people had been around, which is evident by how many people she's had run-ins with throughout the series.

Chris/Christopher to win for me

Ashleigh owes her 'success' to Helen. BB always needs a villain character. Right now it's Helen. And where there's a villain there must be a hero - so Ashleigh gets that badge because she stands against Helen but is less vocal and direct than her. Shouting loses the argument - so Ashleigh looks better by contrast.

However - if Helen had gone weeks ago - i have no doubt whatsoever that Ashleigh would be seen as the villain right now - with all her bitching, moaning and manipulation.

As for the winner - i agree. Christopher for me now. Strange because i used to dislike him at first and i liked Chris much more than i do now.

Such is the nature of BB !

[FlippingEck]

Originally Posted by kefln

And that just killed your creditability .

its a good job im not interested in other people's opinions about me then isn't it.

[jessicadanielle]

Originally Posted by Robodog

Ashleigh owes her 'success' to Helen. BB always needs a villain character. Right now it's Helen. And where there's a villain there must be a hero - so Ashleigh gets that badge because she stands against Helen but is less vocal and direct than her. Shouting loses the argument - so Ashleigh looks better by contrast.

However - if Helen had gone weeks ago - i have no doubt whatsoever that Ashleigh would be seen as the villain right now - with all her bitching, moaning and manipulation.

As for the winner - i agree. Christopher for me now. Strange because i used to dislike him at first and i liked Chris much more than i do now.

Such is the nature of BB !

But who has Ashleigh really bitched about apart from Helen? Ash a little.. Kim a little... But personally I don't think any more so than others bitch about people too. Though Ashleigh does seem like she'd maybe find someone else to hate if Helen weren't around!

[kefln]

Originally Posted by Macie Lightfoot

I really don't get this idea that Helen is this honest raw n rull truthteller. What is really is, is an incredibly insecure chick who misinterprets anything and everything as a personal attack, and then flips the **** out on people when it's not necessary. She assumes the worst of everyone and the best of herself so she's completely blind to how she treats others (which is just hammering away with half-truths and whole-lies.)

To quote Helen when asked if she had contributed to the divide in the house:

"No, I haven't contributed."
"Do I cause a divide? Absolutely not, and I would strongly disagree to that".

Thats Honest Helen for you. Its everyone's fault but hers. Meanwhile Ashleigh fully admitted that she was part of the problem.

[jessicadanielle]

Originally Posted by FlippingEck

Asleigh is a sly manipulative little bitch, but hey, we'll just call her angelic and princess like because that sounds better...

But NOBODY who is a fan of Ashleigh actually believes she is angelic or a princess. Only people who dislike Ashleigh believe that she is trying to portray that image and that we are lapping it up.

The things I like about Ashleigh are the exact opposite of being angelic and a princess. She is a strong young woman who can hold her own, stands by her principles, and doesn't take **** from Helen and co. She doesn't act angelic.. If she did she'd probably be lying down while Helen walked all over her. I also agree she is manipulative, and that is something else I admire about her in a game like Big Brother. Her reason for manipulating the girl power week (to not let Helen dominate and get her own way like she presumed she would) was a valid reason imo. Helen needed taking down a peg

[beardedbloke]

Helen is the sort of person who stands with her gang and sniggers when someone walks by who she doesn't like - Christopher when her, Tamara and others were all going 'bzzzzz' calling him a wasp and laughing as he looked on very uncomfortable and then saying 'boring' as he walked out the door.

She's the sort of person who pisses on someone's pillow who she doesn't like for whatever reason. You can just imagine her sniggering and laughing with her friends as the person whose pillow has been pissed on notices. She'd love that and so would her 'gang'. She'd make someone's life hell, and if she wasn't in Big Brother, you can bet your life that she'd do some nasty sneaky stuff - all the while saying she 'tells it like it is'. Oh yeah.

She's a nasty bully who loves to hurt people.

So No, she doesn't deserve to win

[Achilles]

Originally Posted by beardedbloke

Helen is the sort of person who stands with her gang and sniggers when someone walks by who she doesn't like - Christopher when her, Tamara and others were all going 'bzzzzz' calling him a wasp and laughing as he looked on very uncomfortable and then saying 'boring' as he walked out the door.

She's the sort of person who pisses on someone's pillow who she doesn't like for whatever reason. You can just imagine her sniggering and laughing with her friends as the person whose pillow has been pissed on notices. She'd love that and so would her 'gang'. She'd make someone's life hell, and if she wasn't in Big Brother, you can bet your life that she'd do some nasty sneaky stuff - all the while saying she 'tells it like it is'. Oh yeah.

She's a nasty bully who loves to hurt people.

So No, she doesn't deserve to win

Bearded blokes are always wise

[Robodog]

Originally Posted by beardedbloke

She's a nasty bully who loves to hurt people.

So No, she doesn't deserve to win

Ashleigh enjoyed hurting Helen last night by snuggling into Ash and saying 'i'm so glad you're here' - despite her whole 'evil plan' to exclude Helen and manipulate the other girls into nominating him.

Exclusion, manipulation, hypocrisy and gleefully rubbing salt in the wound is no less 'bullying' behaviour than Helen's shouting.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by FlippingEck

I get fed up with hearing people play the bully card. By the reckoning on here, if you have an opinion about someone and have the audacity to voice your opinion openly then you are a bully.. in which case, the house is full of bullies.. as is this forum.

Time to put your adult pants on people.. Helen is not a bully. she is HONEST.

What a great post, well said and great observations too.

If Helen is a bully, which I agree with you she is not,she is definitely the worst I have come across since she shows her actions and just if anyone was to miss those actions somehow,she shouts her actions too for all to hear.

A bully would avoid doing any of that at all costs.

[kefln]

Another point about Helen and her "honesty":

Last night in the DR she had this to say about Ashleigh:
"She's so much more rude than me, she speaks to her friends like ****"

Here is an example of Helen speaking her mind:
‘Oh for ****** sake, bore the ****** off! Bore off, bore off! It’s a question. You’re a very bitter, nasty back stabbing little b******d. You’ve completely transformed, you turned into a p*s*y, the other night and you let Toya take your ******ing back lash...******ing p*ssy, match up to your ******ing description you ******ing weed’.

Ashleigh ruder than that? I don't think so.

And how does Helen know how Ashleigh talks to her friends? Or could it be that she's making things up?

Honest Helen? Bending the truth? How could it be?

[FlippingEck]

Originally Posted by jessicadanielle

But NOBODY who is a fan of Ashleigh actually believes she is angelic or a princess. Only people who dislike Ashleigh believe that she is trying to portray that image and that we are lapping it up.

How many Ashleigh fans on here have "Princess Ashleigh" in their "sig" ?