[Josy]

The bullet dna test was the one that was contaminated by Sherry's own DNA.

Agent Fassbender told crime lab analyst Sherry Culhane that she needed to “place Teresa Halbach in the house or garage.” She ran a DNA test on the bullet fragment and the control was contaminated which means the results are to be reported as “inconclusive.” Instead, she reported that Teresa Halbach’s DNA was found on the bullet. Of course, it is impossible to trust this evidence.

[Niamh.]

I'm just using you as an expert btw Josy as all these questions come to me as i read

I keep flip flopping between thinking he is guilty, he isn't guilty blah blah blah It's melting my head lol

I don't believe Teresa was killed in the garage or Steves trailer. there is no way in the world I believe that they/he could have cleaned up the place good enough for not a single scrap of blood or DNA to be left behind

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Josy

The bullet dna test was the one that was contaminated by Sherry's own DNA.

Ah ok, I'd forgotten about that actually

[Josy]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I'm just using you as an expert btw Josy as all these questions come to me as i read

I keep flip flopping between thinking he is guilty, he isn't guilty blah blah blah It's melting my head lol

I don't believe Teresa was killed in the garage or Steves trailer. there is no way in the world I believe that they/he could have cleaned up the place good enough for not a single scrap of blood or DNA was left behind

My heads ruined with it too, then you read some more and think right he definitely done it and then oh god no I don't think he did and so on

What's really sad though is that no one will ever really know the truth of what happened to Theresa.

This quote here from a website I was reading is spot on about the corruption though

Some (including prosecutor Ken Kratz) are critical of the documentary suggesting that it was one-sided. I believe anyone who feels that way is missing the point. While many are weighing Avery’s guilt versus innocence, it’s clear the objective of the film was to expose the corruption that existed at every level in this case and they achieved that. Steven Avery and Brendan Dassey lost their right to a fair trial when the Manitowoc Sheriff’s Department became involved in the case. Nothing about the investigation can be trusted, especially in light of the misconduct that occurred during the 1985 case – misconduct that no one has ever been held accountable for. The same players were involved here with so much to lose. It is absolutely outrageous that they were involved, but no one stepped in. The prosecutor could have said “Hey, wait a minute . . . this is concerning, this is inappropriate.” The judges did nothing to stop the unfairness. The judge allowed Dassey’s “confession” even though his attorney was released for failure to represent his client during the interrogations. The judges accepted the evidence obtained by the Manitowoc Sheriff’s Department, even though the officers had no business ever stepping foot on the Avery property.

There are numerous articles criticizing the documentary about evidence that was excluded. I would counter that by adding that there is a considerable amount of misconduct that was also excluded from the series. For example, the Manitowoc coroner learned about the human remains found on the property and immediately began organizing a local team to investigate the death, but officials informed her that her assistance would not be needed. This was very unusual and suspicious, especially considering the fact that there are no photos or footage documenting the discovery of the bones alleged to have been found in the three locations.

[Niamh.]

Yeah, you're right of course, I guess it's just harder to feel the sympathy about a "wrong doing" if you still believe he's a murderer/rapist. I might read Griesbachs book though and see his thoughts, i thought he came across as a reasonable and unbiassed kind of a guy.

Whatever about Steven though, Brendan for me should never have gotten to court because of the behaviour of his original lawyer Len what's his face

[Niamh.]

although actually I won't as apparently the majority of the book is about the rape case

[Ammi]

..what I keep thinking is, is that this is a small town and this is not an experienced police department in serious crimes like rape and murder...that was said in the first case with Gregory Allen...and they didn't even convict the right person for the rape, I mean, a basic thing to get right for a police department.....and with all of the planted evidence, well (although he was convicted..).. they did a pretty poor job of that as well/and the radio call when the car was found, really silly blunders...they're not really competent cops are they, in terms of the crimes they have and how to frame someone...so if they did so much wrong, right from the first case that he went to prison for, then I have no confidence in them being certain that he did it and just wanting to make sure that he got convicted...nothing in either of these cases that they're done to a pretty shabby success, has made me think that they're correct in their certainty of the murderer.... 'oh, we got everything else wrong, plus the wrong person before but you can trust us when we say that Steven Avery killed Teresa'....I just don't think that they're competent enough to have even felt sure of that....

[Niamh.]

Oh someone reviewing the book that Greisbach wrote said this, I wasn't aware of this bit of information either (and also only 12 of the 18 years he spent in prison originally were wrongful, 6 of them were for this)

Steven Avery spent 18 years in prison for a crime he did not commit. Mr. Avery is well known in the community for getting in to trouble. Right before he was jailed for this crime, he was in the process of being sentenced for ambushing the deputy Sheriff’s wife off the road and tried to force her into his car. Only he didn’t because she had her young child with her and he let her go. What would have happened if that child was not with her that day, nobody knows?

[Cal.]

I think all the cops involved with this case from Manitowoc County need clearing out. Even if they're not guilty for everything they're being accused of (which is highly doubtful) I doubt they'll be taken seriously again.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Who Is She?

I think all the cops involved with this case from Manitowoc County need clearing out. Even if they're not guilty for everything they're being accused of (which is highly doubtful) I doubt they'll be taken seriously again.

You could have said that after the first case lol but they still managed to get Brendan Dassey and Steve Avery sent down for life after that

[Drew.]

Just got up to the jury's verdict on Netflix, i've never been so confused in my life. I'll go through this thread and read everyone elses opinions soon. Lenk is the biggest fraud in all of this.. how his actions alone didn't let Steven Avery off the hook is crazy. Literally every witness that stood up or anyone giving evidence got caught out for either doing something they shouldn't have or not doing their job correctly. Part of me does believe he could have done it but i can't get my head around how so much evidence was tampered with and how things like the key appearing out of nowhere happened and how obvious it was that a lot of this had nothing to do with Avery. There was no way enough evidence there for him to be found guilty.

[Ammi]

...Brendon's trial...
'What was the stuff you made up'
'Well the stuff that didn't really happen is the stuff I made up'

[Ammi]

Spoiler:

..Brendan's trial felt like a complete farce because he was never going to be found not guilty as it had already been established that Avery couldn't have transferred her body from the garage on his own to burn it in his trial, hadn't it..? ...so if Brendon had been found innocent then their conviction against Steven fell apart again...they needed someone/another member of the family to make sure that Steven was convicted and Brendon was the most vulnerable and open to being manipulated, so they chose him...

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...Brendon's trial...

'What was the stuff you made up'

'Well the stuff that didn't really happen is the stuff I made up'

Poor Brendan lol he was a much more sympathetic character then Steve I found

[Drew.]

Feel sorry for Brendan. Far too much pressure piled onto him for him to cope with. He's not intelligent at all and hasn't got a clue what to do or say.. such an easy target.

[Ammi]

..I think the first conviction and imprisonment is relevant because the police department knew for 10 years that someone else had confessed to the crime and did nothing to ensure the right person was convicted, so the right person being convicted didn't seem any motivation to see justice then...?...yet here, it seemed that all they were trying to do is ensure that the right person was convicted...I don't think that it is only corruption/I think it's more 'personal' than that, that they wanted to make sure that the 'right person' was Steven Avery...

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

Spoiler:

..Brendan's trial felt like a complete farce because he was never going to be found not guilty as it had already been established that Avery couldn't have transferred her body from the garage on his own to burn it in his trial, hadn't it..? ...so if Brendon had been found innocent then their conviction against Steven fell apart again...they needed someone/another member of the family to make sure that Steven was convicted and Brendon was the most vulnerable and open to being manipulated, so they chose him...

But they were supposed to be two completely independent cases, Brendan's statement and involvement wasn't even allowed be mentioned in Steves case, in fact in the closing arguments Kratz said "Steve and Steve alone was responsible for Teresa's death"

[Drew.]

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Drew.

Feel sorry for Brendan. Far too much pressure piled onto him for him to cope with. He's not intelligent at all and hasn't got a clue what to do or say.. such an easy target.

It gets even worse when you watch his trial, that made me more angry than Steves

[Drew.]

Just watching that part now.. like Ammi said Brandon was needed to send Steven down as well, the kid is so vulnerable and such an easy target. They took such a different approach on him, it was much more intimidating and he stood no chance at all.

[Niamh.]

His statement should have been inadmissible because he was 16 years old with learning difficulties and he had no lawyer or parent with him during his interrogations

[Drew.]

Re watching the part back where they forced the confession out of him is hard to watch. Brandon crumbles so quickly with all of that evidence in front of him, his actions aren't reliable at all. The way that bloke gets on his phone straight away before Brandon has even left the room tells you he thought he had hit jackpot.. he clearly wasn't interested in anything else whether Brandon was telling the truth or not. He was so desperate to send him down.

[Ammi]

..I'm just not left with the feeling that it was all well intentioned, in that they needed to do some manipulation to ensure the conviction of a killer, it feels like they didn't explore it being anyone else, either in Steven's family or Teresa's or her ex boyfriend...because all they wanted was Steven...and at the expense of Teresa's killer being free, if that had to be the way...

[Niamh.]

Yeah all the properties on the Avery land should have been checked not just Steves, they would surely have just cause to do that since A- the body and car were found there and B- they had Brendan's "confession" of involvement so why not check his house too?

[Drew.]

Far too many situations where they should have done things but they didn't. It really does seem like they were after Steven from the start and had no interest in anything or anyone else.