[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

But no srsly, there is a "bad" side to hyper-masculinity. I won't say "toxic masculinity" because frankly I despise almost all of these "buzz terms" ("toxic masculinity", "mansplaining", "feminazi", "snowflake", the overuse of the word "problematic", etc.) BUT it is a thing that exists, in the sense that it actually RESTRICTS some men in what they can express e.g. men being afraid to cry because of the reactions of other men, and actually, of many women. I suppose the difference is... it's fine if a man doesn't want to show emotion. It's NOT fine if a man does want to show emotion but can't because he will be mocked by other men. That's the part that's... err... problematic.

The problem is when men say things or take action based purely on social expectation, when it's not what they truly think or believe or what they actually want to do.

Ironically; it comes from a place of low self esteem, cowardice and lack of confidence. Confident men like me and you Alf don't give a shiny sh*t what other blokes think of us, amirite?

I am quite guilty of using the term feminazi.

Tbh I don't get why the Gillette advert has used the term “toxic masculinity” as a new slogan for their advert as they're basically attacking their own customers.

Also I prefer the term machismo to describe an OTT masculine person anyway.

[Livia]

The power of advertising, eh? The Marketing department on P&G can all look forward to a hefty rise after this.

[LemonJam]

I mean it's funny how people in Australia are more outraged by this advert than the recent increasing murders of random women in Melbourne.

Can't speak for the UK, but there's a sickening irony there.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by LemonJam

I mean it's funny how people in Australia are more outraged by this advert than the recent increasing murders of random women in Melbourne.

Can't speak for the UK, but there's a sickening irony there.

Apples and oranges to be fair; this doesn't mean that people care about ads more than murder. People latch onto and comment on "novelty" and SADLY things like violence, murder, war and terrorism are such common news items that they don't hold people's attention or promote much discussion that hasn't been done before.

So this is gaining a lot of attention because it's a unique situation, and murder (sadly) is not. It's not because people think it's more important, it's just more unusual.

I suppose in the same way that, let's say, Ant's "drunk car crash" prompted a lot of discussion when (sadly, I'm sure) countless murders and bomb blasts occurred on the same day across the world.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by LemonJam

I mean it's funny how people in Australia are more outraged by this advert than the recent increasing murders of random women in Melbourne.

Can't speak for the UK, but there's a sickening irony there.

Have The Police in Australia come forward to say that it's a serial killer?

[Oliver_W]

Toxic masculinity is a stupid phrase because it's so ineffective - an effective phrase wouldn't need people to keep justifying it.

"Detrimental dickwagging" is better.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Toxic masculinity is a stupid phrase because it's so ineffective - an effective phrase wouldn't need people to keep justifying it.

"Detrimental dickwagging" is better.

Not really. It's self explanatory.

Some people just struggle to understand words and some pretend not to understand to mock and troll.

[Tom4784]

Masculinity and toxic masculinity are two different things. A good example of toxic masculinity can be found in this thread with all the talk of boys being left to fight it out and being 'well 'ard'. Toxic masculinity is the idea that men need to repress how they feel and have to adhere to the idea that men have to solve problem with their fists and can't be upset at anything or upset by anything ever.

Toxic masculinity is a big reason why suicide rates amongst men are so high because men are often made to feel like they can't reach out for help or they'll be seen as weak or why male rape and sexual abuse is so rarely reported because a let of men are afraid to be seen as lesser because they are a victim of an attack. That's not down to feminism or women in general, that's a standard that's been created by men for other men.

Real masculinity is embracing who you are and not being scared to reach out for help when you need it as well as being there for other people who are also in need, that to me is a 'real man', being brave enough to accept that you aren't impervious to life.

[Oliver_W]

As a concept toxic masculinity is sound, it's just the name is unfortunate. People who don't regularly engage in conversations about that kind of issue won't necessarily see it as "a toxic type of masculinity", as seen by how often people have to defend the use of the term.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

As a concept toxic masculinity is sound, it's just the name is unfortunate. People who don't regularly engage in conversations about that kind of issue won't necessarily see it as "a toxic type of masculinity", as seen by how often people have to defend the use of the term.

true

[bots]

i have always used a term i think is much better than toxic masculinity .... arsehole

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

i have always used a term i think is much better than toxic masculinity .... arsehole

yep

toxic was the buzzword of 2018

toxic masculinity is a bs term us to make the user sound like they know a thing or two much more than it is a term to describe an actual thing

no surprise a hideous corporate marketing department is using it to target gullible millenniums

[Alf]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

i have always used a term i think is much better than toxic masculinity .... arsehole

But what if they're not an arsehole? What if they're using their poisonous masculinity to do something good. Like killing enemy soldiers on the battlefield to defend their country.

[Tom4784]

If someone is offended by the term without understanding what it means then it makes them ignorant and I don't really think changing the name will help either since people will still see it as an attack on men regardless.

I don't know if comments are still active on the original video of the ad but the people taking issue seemed actually insane. People were raving about how they've got family in the military and that the ad was anti-military and others were making all sorts of outlandish claims of offense. Those people were reading into things that weren't there and I think there's nothing to be said to reach them because they're going off their own narrative instead of what's in front of their eyes.

[Marsh.]

We're comparing soldiers to blokes throwing their weight around down the pub?

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

We're comparing soldiers to blokes throwing their weight around down the pub?

Kinda ties into the example I mentioned in my last post of how people viewed the Gilette advert as an attack on soldiers, it's bizarre.

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

We're comparing soldiers to blokes throwing their weight around down the pub?

Soldiers can be the men who throw their weight around in the pub, or is that impossible? Women also throw their weight around in the pub, do the women get thrown into the category of poisonous masculity, or is there a separate label for them? Is that label poisonous femininity? Can that be a thing?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Alf

Soldiers can be the men who throw their weight around in the pub, or is that impossible? Women also throw their weight around in the pub, do the women get thrown into the category of poisonous masculity, or is there a separate label for them? Is that label poisonous femininity? Can that be a thing?

You mentioned "killing enemies on the battlefield" that's got nothing to do with idiots in a pub.

Organise your thoughts before posting.

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

You mentioned "killing enemies on the battlefield" that's got nothing to do with idiots in a pub.

Organise your thoughts before posting.

When you just told me to organise my thoughts before posting, is that an example of poisonous masculinity?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Alf

When you just told me to organise my thoughts before posting, is that an example of poisonous masculinity?

No wonder the advert confused you, you're struggling to understand what masculinity is.

[Shaun]

Seems to have worked as an advertising campaign, since nobody's bloody stopped talking about Gillette

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Shaun

Seems to have worked as an advertising campaign, since nobody's bloody stopped talking about Gillette

you buy a razor yet?

[Oliver_W]

The perspective of someone who's lived as both genders:

Youtube video

[Beso]

Can you all shut up and let the women have a say.